9.1. Consideration and possible action on Ordinance No. O-2022-001 for the proposed Planned Unit Development (PUD) zoning request for the property known as NorthStar Hutto Planned Unit Development (PUD), 11.74 acres, more or less, of land, located off of Exchange Boulevard. The land use proposal is active adult 55+ multi-family use. (Second Reading) (Ashley Lumpkin).

[9.1. Consideration and possible action on Ordinance No. O-2022-001 for the proposed Planned Unit Development (PUD) zoning request for the property known as NorthStar Hutto Planned Unit Development (PUD), 11.74 acres, more or less, of land, located off of Exchange Boulevard. The land use proposal is active adult 55+ multi-family use. (Second Reading) (Ashley Lumpkin).]

THE PROPOSED PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT PUD ZONING REQUEST FOR THE PROPERTY KNOWN AS NORTH STAR HUTTO PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT PUD ELEVEN POINT SEVENTY FOUR ACRES MORE OR LESS OF LAND LOCATED OFF OF EXCHANGE BOULEVARD.

THE LAND USE PROPOSAL IS ACTIVE ADULT 55 AND OVER MULTIFAMILY USE.

GOOD EVENING, MAYOR AND COUNCIL MEMBERS.

THIS ITEM WAS HEARD FOR A SECOND READING BUT TABLED IN ORDER TO DISCUSS WITH THE DEVELOPERS, THERE WAS A REQUEST TO ADD SOME LANGUAGE TO THE ORDINANCE.

I CAN GO THROUGH THE FULL PRESENTATION.

IF YOU WANT, THE DEVELOPERS ARE HERE TO MAKE THEIR PRESENTATION BASED ON THOSE REQUESTS.

IT JUST DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU WOULD LIKE ME TO DO FOR THE SECOND READING.

ALL RIGHT, QUESTIONS FROM COUNCIL.

I THINK THE REASON WHY WE TABLED IT IS BECAUSE WE WANTED TO SEE IF THERE WAS A POSSIBLE WAY TO ENSURE THAT THE 55 PLUS WOULD BE UPHELD.

SO, WERE YOU GUYS ABLE TO MAKE ANY HEADWAY? YOU'RE RIGHT, IT WAS TO ADD THE 55 AND UP LANGUAGE TO THE ORDINANCE IN SPEAKING WITH THE DEVELOPER, THEY HAD SOME CONCERNS WITH THAT BASED ON THEIR FINANCING, AND SO THEY'RE HERE TONIGHT TO LET YOU KNOW ABOUT MORE OF WHY THAT MIGHT BE PROBLEMATIC.

NICE TO SEE EVERYBODY.

LANGFORD STUBER, CHALK HILL VENTURES IS THE DEVELOPER ON THIS PROJECT, WHICH IS JUSTIN, ROB AND I'S COMPANY. IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE WAS SOME PUSHBACK OR QUESTIONS REGARDING THE USE

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AND A POTENTIAL RESTRICTION OR CERTAINTY THAT IT WOULD BE A 55 PLUS ACTIVE ADULT SENIOR DEAL VERSUS A MARKET RATE CONVENTION ON MULTIFAMILY DEAL, AND SO IT WAS AGAIN, THE BIG PICTURE FOR US IS WE'RE ZONED MULTIFAMILY AS OF RIGHT FOR 234 UNITS.

IT'S OUR INTENT TO NOT MAX OUT DENSITY AND TO BUILD AN ACTIVE ADULT DEAL, NOT A CONVENTIONAL MULTIFAMILY DEAL, AND SO OUR PUD REQUEST REALLY WAS JUST AN INTENT TO GET CERTAIN THINGS, LIKE BUILDING LINKS LONGER THAN 200 FEET THAT ALLOWS US TO COMBINE BUILDINGS FOR ELEVATOR SERVICE TO MAKE IT MORE EFFICIENT FOR THIS DEMOGRAPHIC.

LANDSCAPE REQUIREMENTS, WHICH YOU KNOW HAVE BEEN A BIG THING, WAS ANOTHER ONE TO BE ABLE TO SQUEEZE NOT JUST OUR PROJECT, BUT MORE GARAGES THAN YOU WOULD SEE ON A MARKET RATE DEAL, WHICH IS A BIG THING FOR THE DEMOGRAPHIC FROM A SECURITY AND SAFETY STANDPOINT, AND SO FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE, THE WAY WE LOOKED AT IT WAS WE'VE GOT MULTIFAMILY ZONING AS OF RIGHT. OUR REQUEST REALLY IS IS TO ALLOW US TO NOT DEVELOP MARKET RATE BUT TO DEVELOP ACTIVE ADULT, WHICH WE THINK IS A BIG NEED FOR THE CITY, BUT OUR PUSHBACK WAS IT FELT PUNITIVE TO REQUIRE A DEED RESTRICTION OR RESTRICTIVE COVENANT, GIVEN THAT WE'RE NOT ASKING TO INITIALLY ZONE THE PROPERTY MULTIFAMILY, WE ALREADY HAVE THAT.

SO WE'RE TRYING TO NOT DEVELOP MULTIFAMILY, AND THIS PUD WOULD ALLOW US TO DEVELOP IT AS ACTIVE ADULT, BUT A DEED RESTRICTION FEELS PUNITIVE GIVEN THAT WE ALREADY HAVE MULTIFAMILY ZONING AS OF RIGHT, AND IF WE WEREN'T ABLE TO FIND A RESOLUTION HERE OUR ONLY OPTION WOULD BE TO DEVELOP IT AS MARKET RATE MULTIFAMILY, WHICH WE DO NOT WANT TO DO.

SO THAT WAS KIND OF OUR THOUGHT PROCESS GOING IN WAS WE DIDN'T FEEL LIKE THE ASK FOR COUNCIL WAS RELATIVELY SIMILAR TO THE ASK FROM COUNCIL OF A POTENTIAL DEED RESTRICTION, WHICH WOULD LIMIT THE VALUE OF THE PROPERTY, LIMIT THINGS GOING FORWARD, AND IT JUST FELT A LITTLE UNNECESSARY RELATIVE TO THE ASK IN THE PUD, AND SO I AM MORE THAN HAPPY TO ANSWER QUESTIONS, COMMENTS ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

SO IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT IF THERE WAS SOME KIND OF A DEED RESTRICTION REQUIREMENT ADDED THAT SAID THAT IT HAD TO BE OVER 55.

WHAT WOULD THAT DO TO YOUR FINANCING? WOULD THAT MAKE IT MORE DIFFICULT? SO IT WOULD SO WITHOUT TRYING TO GO INTO CRAZY DETAIL, WE'VE ALREADY CLOSED WITH AN INSTITUTIONAL EQUITY PARTNER TO FINANCE THE PROJECT.

THERE IS A PROHIBITION ON US ACTUALLY ENTERING INTO A DEED RESTRICTION FOR THE PROPERTY, SO IT WOULD CAUSE US TO GO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD FOR OUR EQUITY PARTNER, BUT THE BIGGER PICTURE IS WHEN YOU DEVELOP THESE PROJECTS AND AGAIN TRYING TO NOT GET INTO THE REALLY NITTY GRITTY, BUT THE FANNIE FREDDIE KIND OF PERMANENT FINANCING MARKETS FOR LONG TERM STABILIZED MULTIFAMILY THAT ARE BACKED BY THE GOVERNMENT, CLASSIFY SENIOR HOUSING NOT AS MULTIFAMILY, AND THAT REQUIRES LOWER LEVERAGE FOR THEIR LOANS.

IT REQUIRES HIGHER INTEREST RATES, HIGHER INTEREST RATE COVENANTS, AND SO IT MAKES YOUR PROJECT LESS VALUABLE, AND IT REALLY, IN OUR MINDS, ACTIVE ADULT IS NOT, QUOTE UNQUOTE SENIOR HOUSING WHERE IT'S LICENSED AND REGULATED LIKE A MEMORY CARE IL/AL.

IT IS CLOSER TO MULTIFAMILY THAN IT IS TO A SKILLED NURSING AND MEMORY CARE DEAL, AND SO WHEN YOU HAVE THAT DEED RESTRICTION, IT CLASSIFIES THAT AS SENIOR HOUSING IN THE SAME WAY, AGAIN, THAT A SKILLED NURSING MEMORY CARE FACILITY WOULD, AND IT MAKES THE VALUE LESS ON THE PROPERTY BECAUSE FINANCING TERMS ARE NOT AS PREVALENT AND NOT AS AGGRESSIVE AS MARKET RATE MULTIFAMILY, AND SO IT DEFINITELY RESTRICTS THE VALUE OF THE PROPERTY PRETTY SUBSTANTIALLY, AND I WILL NOTE OUR LAST PROJECT THAT WE JUST SOLD IN GEORGETOWN, WHICH WAS NORTH STAR GEORGETOWN, WAS ALSO DEVELOPED IN A MULTIFAMILY ZONING DESIGNATION, AND WE AGAIN, JUST LIKE NOW ELECTED NOT TO DEVELOP MARKET RATE MULTIFAMILY, BUT TO DEVELOP AN ACTIVE ADULT PROJECT, AND THAT'S REALLY KIND OF BEEN OUR FOCUS IS FINDING PLACES THAT WE CAN DEVELOP THESE ASSETS, BUT THAT DON'T REQUIRE THE DEED RESTRICTION BECAUSE IT IS SO PUNITIVE, AND AGAIN, WE [INAUDIBLE] THAT PATH FOR US, IT HAS US LOOKING AT, DO WE NEED TO REQUEST INCENTIVES OR SOME WAY TO KEEP COSTS DOWN AND OR RENTS CONTROLLABLE? AGAIN, REQUIRING THAT DEED RESTRICTION REDUCES THE VALUE, WHICH HAS TO BE MADE UP SOMEWHERE, AND AGAIN, WE'RE NOT ASKING THE CITY FOR ANY INCENTIVES, ANY ANYTHING WITH RESPECT TO IT OTHER THAN THE SLIGHT ZONING CHANGES IN THE PUD.

SO AGAIN, IT DRAMATICALLY REDUCES THE VALUE ON THE BACK END AND FEELS PUNITIVE ON THE FRONT END, GIVEN THE EXISTING MULTIFAMILY ZONING AND THE SLIGHT VARIANCES THAT WE WERE ASKING FOR. THAT MAKES SENSE, I THINK WE WERE JUST REALLY WANTING A WAY TO MAKE SURE THAT IT STAYS FIFTY PLUS BECAUSE THE NEED HERE IN HUTTO IS GREAT.

I THINK WE ONLY HAVE ONE 55 PLUS COMMUNITY AND THERE'S ONLY ABOUT 46 OR 48 UNITS, AND OF

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THOSE 48 UNITS, ONLY 12 ARE FAIR MARKET VALUE.

SO SEVENTY FIVE PERCENT OF THOSE ARE SLIDING SCALE OR YOU HAVE TO BE EXPERIENCING SOME KIND OF ECONOMIC HARDSHIP TO QUALIFY FOR THOSE.

SO I THINK THAT THERE'S A GREAT NEED FOR YOUR PROJECT HERE, AND ESPECIALLY AT FAIR MARKET VALUE, I DON'T THINK YOU GUYS WILL HAVE A PROBLEM FINDING PEOPLE TO TAKE OWNERSHIP OF THESE UNITS, BUT AGAIN, I THINK IT WAS MORE OF US JUST TRYING TO SECURE THAT WHAT'S BEING PROMISED HERE AT THE TABLE IS ACTUALLY WHAT WE GET WHEN IT COMES TO FRUITION.

YEAH, AND AGAIN IN BIG PICTURE TERMS, SO OUR ZONING IS MAX OF 234 UNITS, SO WE'RE NOT BUILDING UP TO THE MAXIMUM, WHICH AGAIN IS IRRELEVANT FOR YOU GUYS.

WE BOUGHT THE SITE BASED ON ITS MAX DENSITY, SO WE'RE UNDER DEVELOPING VERSUS WHAT WE PAID FOR WE'RE DEVELOPING THIS WITH ELEVATORS, WITH VERY SPECIFIC DESIGN NEEDS FOR THIS DEMOGRAPHIC THAT ARE MORE EXPENSIVE THAN A MARKET RATE DEAL.

SO FOR US AGAIN, IT SEEMS IT WOULD BE ODD FOR US TO NOT MAX OUT THE DENSITY TO OVER, DEVELOP IT, BRING IN ELEVATORS, DO THINGS FOR THIS DEMOGRAPHIC ONLY TO THEN TURN AROUND AND TRY AND LEASE IT AS A MARKET RATE DEAL, AND ONE OF THE THINGS ONCE IT'S COMPLETED, SO IN AN ACTIVE ADULT [INAUDIBLE] FAIR HOUSING, YOUR LEASES TYPICALLY REQUIRE THE PROJECT TO BE LEASED, AND THE FEDERAL LAW IS 80 PERCENT MUST BE OVER 55, AND YOU'VE GOT TO PUT AN ADDENDUM IN YOUR LEASES THAT REQUIRE THAT AND NOTICE THE RESIDENCE THAT, HEY, IF YOU SIGN THIS LEASE, I'M NOT GOING TO GO LEASE EVERY OTHER UNIT TO A TWENTY FIVE YEAR OLD.

SO THERE ARE SOME GUARANTEES WITH THE RESIDENCE THAT YOU CAN'T LEASE IT TO OTHER PEOPLE AND THE PROCESS IN REAL TIME.

IF YOU WERE TO, LET'S SAY, UNWIND A DEAL AND TRY AND CONVERT IT.

YOU'D HAVE TO MOVE EVERY RESIDENT OUT, WHICH WOULD LET ALL THEIR LEASES EXPIRE OVER TIME, FULLY VACATE EVERYTHING AND THEN RELEASE IT UP, AND THE FEASIBILITY OF THAT, GIVEN THE WAY THAT IT'S BEING DEVELOPED, REALLY WOULDN'T BE A STRATEGY FROM A VALUE STANDPOINT THAT YOU WOULD IMPLEMENT. IT'S MUCH MORE LIKELY AND YOU SEE IT IN THE MARKET THAT THESE PROJECTS ACTUALLY GET MOVED UP THE ACUITY SCALE AND YOU'LL BRING IN FOOD SERVICE AND YOU'LL ACTUALLY CONVERT IT TO AN INDEPENDENT OR ASSISTED LIVING FACILITY, AND THERE ARE A HANDFUL OF DEVELOPMENTS IN THE AUSTIN AREA THAT HAVE DONE THAT.

GREYSTAR, A BIG DEVELOPER, DEVELOPS THEIR ACTIVE ADULT DEALS WITH A COMMERCIAL KITCHEN TO ALLOW FOR THAT CONVERSION UP THE ACUITY SCALE.

SO YOU'RE REALLY MORE LIKELY ON THESE TO SEE A CONVERSION UP THE ACUITY SCALE, THAN DOWN GIVEN AGAIN THE UPFRONT COST OF DEVELOPMENT FOR THIS DEMOGRAPHIC AND THEN THOSE LEASES THAT REQUIRE YOU PER FEDERAL LAW TO ENSURE THAT IT IS AT LEAST 80 PERCENT 55 AND UP AND THE CUMBERSOME PROCESS IT WOULD BE TO THEN UNWIND THOSE ALL OF THE LEASES NOT RENEW AND THEN RELEASE IT.

IT JUST IT ISN'T AS FEASIBLE OR PROFITABLE AS IT MIGHT SEEM, AND SO IN OUR MINDS, THE LIKELIHOOD IT OBVIOUSLY WOULD NOT BE US DOING IT, THE LIKELIHOOD THAT WAY DOWN THE ROAD, IT WOULD BE CONVERTED TO CONVENTIONAL MULTIFAMILY.

I GUESS FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE THAT'S WHAT IT'S ZONED RIGHT NOW, AND SO WE'RE TRYING TO SAY, HEY, LET'S BRING A BENEFIT TO THE CITY FOR SOMETHING THAT YOU KNOW, WE THINK IS VERY NEEDED, BUT AGAIN, IT FELT PUNITIVE TO SAY WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO THAT GIVEN THAT WE ALREADY HAVE CONVENTIONAL MULTIFAMILY ZONING.

ALL RIGHT, SO I'M NOT BUYING THIS, OKAY? WHEN A PERSON TELLS ME THEY'RE GOING TO DO SOMETHING AND THEN YOU ASK THEM TO PUT IT IN WRITING, AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN THEY CALL IT PUNITIVE.

I'M LOOKING HERE GOING, WE DIDN'T ASK YOU TO MAKE IT 55 AND OLDER.

YOU SAID YOU WERE DOING THAT.

ALL WE ASKED, I ASKED WAS, CAN YOU PUT IT DOWN ON PAPER? AS SOON AS WE DID THAT, ALL OF A SUDDEN THERE'S ALL THESE PROBLEMS WE'RE GOING TO HAVE AND YOU'RE GOING TO SELL THIS BUILDING THIS DEVELOPMENT AT SOME POINT, WHETHER IT BE NEXT YEAR, YOU GET ENTITLED AND THEN SELL IT, AND SO TO ME, YOU'RE ASKING THE CITY COUNCIL TO APPROVE CHANGES, THAT IS A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN JUST WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.

I MEAN, THERE'S MASONRY CHANGES, THERE'S THE ROUGH CHANGES, THERE'S BUILDING LINKS.

YOU'RE NOT DOING THAT TO SPEND MORE MONEY, YOU'RE DOING THAT TO SAVE MONEY.

IT'S BETTER FROM A COST PERSPECTIVE.

SO I FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE THAT I'M SUPPOSED TO TELL THE PUBLIC WE HAVE A GREAT 55 AND OLDER PROJECT, BUT I CAN'T GUARANTEE ANYBODY 55 AND OLDER CAN BE THERE BECAUSE THESE GUYS WILL SELL THIS BEFORE POTENTIALLY THE FIRST PERSON MOVES IN AND MARKET RATE, THEY'RE TELLING ME MARKET RATE IS NOT AS WHATEVER YOU SAID, ECONOMICALLY FEASIBLE AS SENIOR, BUT THE MARKET RATES ARE OUT OF CONTROL.

SO SOMETHING TELLS ME WHOEVER YOU SELL IT TO MAY THINK MARKET RATES BETTER, AND SO WITH YOU JUST SELLING THE NORTH STAR GEORGETOWN COMPLEX, THAT'S PRACTICALLY BRAND NEW AND ALL THIS PUNITIVE THING, I'M THINKING, WELL, I'D RATHER IT BE PUNITIVE TO YOU ALL THAN BE PUNITIVE TO THE SENIOR PEOPLE WHO THOUGHT THEY WERE GETTING INTO AN OVER 55, ONLY TO FIND OUT THEY'VE GOT KIDS LIVING ALL AROUND THEM AND IT'S NOT SET UP FOR THAT, AND WHERE I

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COME FROM, I'LL LEAVE IT AT THIS STRONG CONTRACTS MAKE STRONG FRIENDS, AND ONE OF THE THINGS I FOUND IN THIS CITY IS WE HAD A LOT OF PEOPLE TELL US A LOT OF THINGS, BUT WE NEVER PUT THEM ON PAPER, AND SO THEN WHEN IT DIDN'T COME TO FRUITION, LIKE WE TOLD EVERYBODY, WE LOOK LIKE IDIOTS.

INSTEAD, I'M MORE OF THE PERSON THAT GOES.

YOU BROUGHT UP 55 AND ODOR, THEN YOU SHOULD MAKE IT 55 AND OLDER, AND IF IT AFFECTS YOUR FINANCING, I MEAN, YOU GUYS ARE IN THIS BUSINESS, YOU CAN FIGURE IT OUT. I MEAN, IF YOU CAN'T, THEN I GUESS YOU JUST BUILD IT THE WAY IT'S SET UP TO DO YOU DO 50 PERCENT OF YOUR MASONRY, YOU MAKE YOUR PITCH BE SIX TO 12 PITCH AND YOU DON'T LET YOUR BUILDINGS EXCEED 200 FEET, AND AT LEAST THEN I CAN TELL THE PUBLIC I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO GET. SO I DO APPRECIATE YOU TRYING TO AT LEAST HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR OVER 55, BUT TO ME, WE'VE HAD SO MANY BROKEN PROMISES JUST IN MY SHORT TIME HERE IN HUTTO THAT, MAN, I MEAN, AT SOME POINT I'VE GOT TO BE ABLE TO VOTE IN A MANNER THAT STOPS THE ABILITY TO HAVE THE POTENTIAL.

SO, THAT'S ALL I'VE GOT ON THAT.

ANYBODY ELSE? PLEASE, I'VE GOT JUST A COMMENT.

SO COUNCIL MEMBER KINSEY REFERRED TO THE 55 AND OLDER SENIOR HOUSING THAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW AT CARMEL CREEK AND THAT'S PROBABLY BEEN HERE FOR SIX, MAYBE SEVEN YEARS, AND IT STARTED OUT GREAT, AND I HAVE A NUMBER OF FRIENDS THAT HAVE LIVED THERE AND HAVE MOVED OUT BECAUSE IT DIDN'T MEET THEIR EXPECTATIONS, AND I KNOW THAT YOU ALL ARE NOT SET UP THE WAY THAT ONE WAS BECAUSE THEY HAD SOME STATE TAX BENEFITS FOR DOING THAT, AND COUNCIL DID ASK FOR THEM TO HAVE A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF MARKET VALUE AND I WOULD LIKE TO FEEL LIKE WE COULD SAY THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE SOME TYPE OF A SENIOR HOUSING, THERE ARE A LOT MORE SENIORS HERE THAN THERE ONCE WERE.

THERE'S A NUMBER OF THOSE SENIORS THAT ARE MOVING HERE BECAUSE THEIR CHILDREN AND THEIR GRANDCHILDREN ARE HERE AND THEY WANT TO BE A PART OF THAT FAMILY UNIT, BUT NOT LIVE WITH THEM. I FEEL THAT IF IT'S NOT GOING TO BE SENIOR HOUSING, THEN WE SHOULDN'T EVEN BE MENTIONING IT, BECAUSE THEN IT LOOKS TO THE CITIZENS LIKE WE'RE JUST SAYING YES, AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN THE SENIOR HOUSING GOES AWAY AND WE NEED SOMETHING FOR THE SENIORS IN HUTTO BE ABLE TO FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH THAT.

THEY THAT THEY CAN BE THERE, THEY CAN STAY THERE.

THERE'S PEOPLE TO AT CARMEL CREEK RIGHT NOW, THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE A STAFF PERSON THERE, AND IT'S BEEN THAT WAY FOR ALMOST TWO YEARS, AND I KNOW THAT Y'ALL PROBABLY AREN'T GOING TO BE SET UP THAT WAY, BUT THERE'S JUST KIND OF A BAD TASTE IN PEOPLE'S MOUTHS ABOUT ABOUT SENIOR HOUSING RIGHT NOW.

SO IF WE'RE GOING TO MARKET IT THAT WAY, THEN I WOULD PERSONALLY FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE IF THERE WAS SOME ASSURANCES OF THIS IS WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN AND THIS IS THE WAY THE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE TREATED IN THEIR LIVING ENVIRONMENT.

MM HMM, AND AGAIN, I THINK WE DEFINITELY APPRECIATE AND UNDERSTAND THAT PERSPECTIVE WE DO NOT WANT TO DEVELOP A MARKET RATE MULTIFAMILY DEAL THERE, WHICH IS WHAT THE ZONING PROVIDES FOR. SO I MEAN, I GUESS OUR PERSPECTIVE IS WE'RE ASKING TO BE ABLE TO DEVELOP THIS, AND ULTIMATELY, IF IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS, THEN OUR ONLY CHOICE IS TO REDESIGN DO IT AS A MARKET RATE, CONVENTIONAL DEAL PER ZONING, AND SO AGAIN, NOT ASKING THE CITY FOR INCENTIVES, ASKING FOR THINGS THAT IT SEEMS LIKE OTHER GROUPS ARE COMING IN AND HAVING THE SAME ISSUES WITH LANDSCAPE AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

AGAIN, IT DOESN'T FEEL LIKE THE ASK IS THAT MUCH ON A RELATIVE SCALE GIVEN WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DELIVER, AND AGAIN, UNDER DEVELOPING IT PER THE DENSITY, ADDING IN ELEVATORS AND THINGS THAT YOU DON'T SEE IN A MARKET RATE DEAL AGAIN, IT WOULD BE ODD FOR US TO SPEND MORE MONEY, ONLY TO CONVERT IT TO A LESSER VALUABLE PROJECT.

SO AND I KNOW IT SEEMS A LITTLE COUNTERINTUITIVE, BUT AGAIN, FOR US, WE WANT TO DO AN ACTIVE ADULT DEAL, BUT UNFORTUNATELY WITHOUT THE PUD, AGAIN, LIKE THE ELEVATORS, SPECIFICALLY THAT 200 FOOT BUILDING RUN, WE CAN'T FIT ENOUGH BUILDINGS TO GET ANY DENSITY THAT MAKES SENSE AND ELEVATORS SERVE THEM.

THAT LETS US CREATE EFFICIENT ELEVATOR LOCATIONS.

SO AGAIN, THINGS LIKE THAT ARE REALLY GEARED ONLY TO BEING ABLE TO DESIGN AND FIT ADA AND

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ACCESSIBLE COMPONENTS LIKE ELEVATORS, AND SO AGAIN THOSE DON'T SEEM LIKE THEY'RE THAT BURDENSOME OF A REQUEST AGAIN RELATIVE TO THE BASELINE, WHICH IS IF WE DON'T GET THIS APPROVED OUR ONLY OPTION IS TO DEVELOP IT AS A MARKET RATE MULTIFAMILY DEAL, WHICH AGAIN, IS NOT WE WANT TO DO. IT'S NOT WHAT WE THINK HUTTO NEEDS.

THERE'S ALREADY TWO GOING INTO THE NORTH OF US, ONE ON THE EAST OF EXCHANGE.

IT'S ALL MARKET RATE SO WE FEEL LIKE IF THE CHOICE IS I KNOW EVERYBODY SAYS, TRUST US THE ZONING IS CONVENTIONAL MULTIFAMILY.

WE'RE HOPING TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT, BUT WITHOUT THE PUD, WE WOULD BE FORCED TO GO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD AND DO A MARKET RATE DEAL, AND I DON'T SAY THAT IN ANY KIND OF THREATENING OR ANY MANNER AT ALL.

IT'S JUST THAT'S THE REALITY OF OF THE ZONING AND WE BOUGHT THE PROPERTY.

WE WOULD LOVE TO DO AN ACTIVE ADULT DEAL AND THINK THERE'S A HUGE NEED, BUT AGAIN, WE'RE NOT ASKING FOR INCENTIVES.

WE'RE NOT ASKING FOR MASSIVE IN OUR MINDS, CONCESSIONS ON A RELATIVE BASIS TO OTHER DEVELOPERS THAT ARE COMING IN FRONT OF EVERYBODY, AND WE'RE TRYING TO PROVIDE A BENEFIT THAT THE CITY NEEDS, AND JUST LIKE ANYONE, WE CAN'T CONTROL WHAT HAPPENS, NOR CAN ANYBODY IN ANY DEVELOPMENT 10 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD AND SO AGAIN WE FEEL LIKE WE'RE TRYING TO PUT OUR BEST FOOT FORWARD AND MAKE THIS HAPPEN AND HOPE THAT WE END UP GETTING THE SUPPORT BECAUSE FOR US AT LEAST THE ONLY WAY TO MAKE THIS AN ACTIVE ADULT DEAL IS TO GET THIS PUD IN SOME FORM OR FASHION APPROVED.

OKAY, SO YOU JUST SAID SOME KEYWORDS THAT I KIND OF WANT TO TALK ABOUT A LITTLE BIT.

YOU MENTIONED HANDICAP ACCESSIBLE ELEVATORS.

SO THIS IS AN ACTIVE ADULT COMMUNITY.

SO FROM WHAT WE WERE TOLD LAST TIME, I'M ADA, AND SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO GO ABOVE LIKE THE [INAUDIBLE] LEVELS OF WHAT'S REQUIRED BY THE STATE TO BUILD TO THE STANDARDS OF WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO WITH, LIKE A SENIOR COMMUNITY.

IN ADDITION TO HANDICAP ELEVATORS, WHAT ELSE ARE YOU ALL PUTTING IN TO AN ACTIVE SENIOR LIVING SITUATION WHERE THAT'S REALLY NOT THE DEMOGRAPHIC, THOUGH, THAT WOULD REALLY BE MORE TOWARDS A NURSING HOME OR ASSISTED LIVING? I'M JUST CURIOUS, TRYING TO UNDERSTAND LIKE WHY IS JUST THE ELEVATOR GOING TO BE HANDICAP AND YOU'LL NEED THE EXTRA SPACE FOR THAT VERSUS A NORMAL ELEVATOR? SURE. SO I'M ROB.

I'M THE HEAD OF CONSTRUCTION FOR CHALK HILL.

I THINK I'VE BEEN HERE IN FRONT OF THE COUNCIL BEFORE.

TO YOUR SPECIFIC QUESTION, COUNCIL MEMBER VILLARREAL-SALVO.

THERE'S A NUMBER OF DESIGN INITIATIVES THAT WE'RE TRYING TO ACHIEVE HERE WITHOUT CROSSING CERTAIN LEGAL BOUNDARIES ABOUT WHAT IS OR ISN'T ADDITIONALLY ACCESSIBLE.

SO THE FIRST ONE THAT COMES TO MIND IS SHOWER ENCLOSURES, RIGHT? WE INTEND TO HAVE NICE GLASS SHOWER ENCLOSURES, BUT TYPICALLY TO HAVE A GLASS SHOWER ENCLOSURE WITHOUT GETTING INTO THE NITTY GRITTY DETAILS OF CONSTRUCTION.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE A DAM, RIGHT? A SMALL DAM. ELDERLY PEOPLE USUALLY HAVE DIFFICULTY GETTING IN AND OUT OF THOSE.

WE ACTUALLY ARE SPENDING A LITTLE BIT MORE MONEY ON A REDUCED LEVEL SHOWER PAN SO THAT EVEN THOUGH IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEET THE EXACT DEFINITION OF ACCESSIBLE, WHICH IS A QUARTER INCH OVER FOUR INCHES OF RISE AND RUN, IT'S STILL A LIP ABOUT THAT BIG.

SO IT'S MUCH, MUCH MORE ACCESSIBLE, NOT IN THE LEGAL TERM, BUT IN THE PHYSICAL TERM FOR ELDERLY PEOPLE TO GET INTO THE NUMBER OF RAMPS, THE GRADE ON OUR WALKWAYS.

THERE'S A NUMBER OF THINGS THAT WE'VE DONE THAT MAKE IT MORE ACCESSIBLE WITHOUT ACTUALLY CALLING THEM OUT AS ACCESSIBLE BECAUSE UNFORTUNATELY FEDERAL, STATE AND LOCAL CODE THAT BRINGS A BUNCH OF BAGGAGE WITH IT.

SO THERE ARE THINGS THAT WE'VE DONE AS AN ENHANCEMENT TO THE PROJECT BECAUSE AGAIN, WE'RE TRYING TO SELL A PRODUCT OR GET A PRODUCT LEASED BY PEOPLE WHO NEED IT FOR CERTAIN THINGS, RIGHT? SO IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO HAVE EVERY BATHROOM, HAVE A BATHTUB WITH A SHOWER IN IT. WE KNOW THESE PEOPLE, TO A DEGREE, ARE GOING TO HAVE DIFFICULTY MOVING AROUND SOME PORTION OF THEM, RIGHT? SO WE'RE TRYING TO AGAIN ADD VALUE TO THE PROJECT AND DO THAT.

UNFORTUNATELY, THOSE THINGS COME AT A PREMIUM AND YOU KNOW, TO THE MAYOR'S POINT, I UNDERSTAND YOUR POINT, MR. MAYOR.

I DON'T KNOW HOW ELSE WE CAN EXPLAIN OTHER THAN WE DON'T CONTROL THE CAPITAL MARKETS, BUT YOU KNOW, IF WE'RE FORCED TO BUILD UNDER A CONDITION WHERE WE DON'T RECEIVE THE PUD AGAIN, WE WON'T HAVE ANY CHOICE BUT TO GO BACK TO MARKET RATE.

THE IDEA OF AGE RESTRICTED WILL SIMPLY DIE THERE.

SO WE ARE HAPPY TO SHARE OUR PLANS WITH THE COUNCIL.

YOU CAN REVIEW THE DETAILS TO THE DEGREE THAT THEY'RE COMPLETE.

WE'RE STILL ONLY ABOUT 40 PERCENT, COMPLETE WITH OUR PLANS AT THIS POINT.

WE'RE HAPPY TO SHARE ADDITIONAL DETAILS WITH THE COUNCIL ABOUT WHAT OUR PLANS FOR AMENITIES ARE, WHAT OUR LIFESTYLE PROGRAMMING IS ANYTHING ELSE THAT WOULD MAKE THE COUNCIL FEEL COMFORTABLE THAT WE'RE TRYING TO BUILD A PRODUCT THAT LEASES TO IT IN SOME LEVEL, AGAIN, AS LANGFORD SAID, WE'RE ASKING YOU GUYS TO TRUST US A LITTLE BIT.

WE PLACE TRUST IN PUBLIC OFFICIALS.

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WE'RE ASKING AS YOUR PARTNERS, YOU GUYS TRUST US A LITTLE BIT.

WE CAN'T LEASE THIS BUILDING TO THE DEMOGRAPHIC THAT NEEDS IT IF WE DON'T MAKE IT A PRODUCT THAT THEY NEED.

DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? OKAY, SO YOU ALL ARE GONNA BE DOING 30 PERCENT MASONRY VERSUS THE REQUIRED 50 PERCENT.

IS THAT BECAUSE OF THE ADDITIONAL COSTS OF THESE OTHER ACCESSIBLE ITEMS THAT ARE GOING TO BE DOING THROUGHOUT THE PREMISES.

SOME OF IT IS, SOME OF IT ALSO HAS TO DO WITH WITHOUT GOING TOO FAR INTO SOME OF THE CONSTRUCTION ISSUES WITH IT.

I'M OKAY WITH YOU GOING FAR INTO IT.

IF YOU LOOK AT OUR RENDERING UP THERE, YOU CAN SEE THAT ALL OF OUR UNITS HAVE BALCONY PATIOS, RIGHT? THERE ARE CERTAIN WATERPROOFING DETAIL ISSUES THAT CAUSE WATER INFILTRATION OF BUILDINGS THAT OCCURS WHEN YOU HAVE EXTERIOR BALCONY PATIOS.

THAT'S A VALUE ADD, RIGHT, THAT'S NOT REQUIRED BY EXISTING MULTIFAMILY.

IF WE WERE TO BE REQUIRED TO STICK WITH, SAY, 50 PERCENT MASONRY, IT'S ALMOST ENTIRELY LIKELY WE WOULD DELETE ALL THOSE PATIOS OFF THE BUILDING.

THERE WOULD BE REALLY NO OTHER WAY BETWEEN THAT AND THE GLAZING ON THE EXTERIOR FACADE.

IT STARTS TO GET INTO A NUMBER-CRUNCHING GAME ABOUT WHAT CAN OR CANNOT BE ACHIEVED.

JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, THOUGH, WE DO HAVE THE MASONRY UP THERE, 50 PERCENT IS REQUIRED IN THE UDC. STATE LAW HAS REMOVED THAT AND ACTUALLY VOIDED OUT ALL WORN ORDINANCES ON MASONRY, SO 30 PERCENT IS ACTUALLY ABOVE.

IT'S JUST LESS THAN WHAT THE UDC REQUIRES.

WE ASK FOR IT.

WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO ACTUALLY REQUIRE IT.

FOR CLARIFICATION BECAUSE THEY'RE ASKING FOR A PUD, WE CAN MAKE THAT 75 PERCENT, RIGHT? CORRECT ME, IF I'M WRONG, ANY ORDINANCE REQUIRING MASONRY IS VOID BY THE STATE.

YOU CAN'T ADD THAT IN ANY KIND OF PUD/PID ANY OF THAT? I THOUGHT IT WAS JUST AS A UDC, YOU CAN'T.

ORDINANCE WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED.

IT'S VOIDED OUT BY THE STATE WITH THEIR LAST MASONRY LAW.

SO I GUESS WE JUST I'M GOING BACK TO THE CONCERNS THAT WE'RE HAVING BECAUSE IT'S NOT ABOUT US FEELING GOOD.

IT'S ABOUT OKAY SO GOING FORWARD IN THE NEXT YEAR TO WHAT MY COLLEAGUES HAVE SAID IS HOW ARE YOU ABLE TO? FIFTY FIVE IS NOT THAT OLD, IT'S NOT, AND SO IN TERMS OF LIKE ACTIVE SENIORS LIKE THESE ARE NOT [CHUCKLING] THANK YOU, CITY MANAGER.

IN TERMS OF LIKE OUR ACTIVE SENIORS, LIKE, IF THAT'S YOUR TARGET DEMOGRAPHIC, I DON'T SEE THE NEED FOR THE ALMOST BEING ACCESSIBLE.

DO YOU ALL DO THAT FOR A MARKETING PURPOSE TO TRY TO CAPTURE THAT DEMOGRAPHIC? BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE IT'S NOT NECESSARY IN TERMS OF COST.

YOU'RE SPOT ON. IT'S A MISNOMER WHEN WE SAY 55 AND UP ACTIVE ADULT.

THAT'S THE TERMINOLOGY THAT'S BEEN COINED FOR A LONG TIME, NOT SOMETHING THAT WE NAME.

THAT'S NOT OUR NAMING CONVENTION.

IN REALITY, TAKE OUR GEORGETOWN, OUR LAST PROJECT IN NORTH STAR GEORGETOWN.

THE AVERAGE AGE WAS SEVENTY TWO AND IT WAS ABOUT SIXTY FIVE PERCENT FEMALES VERSUS MALES.

SO THIS 55 PLUS IS REALLY A MISNOMER.

IF YOU LOOK NATIONALLY OR LOCALLY, THE DEMOGRAPHIC TYPICALLY IS PLUS OR MINUS 70 BY A COUPLE OF YEARS. WE DIDN'T HAVE ANYONE UNDER 55 LEASE IN GEORGETOWN.

NO, WE HAD ONE PERSON AND THAT WAS WE WERE LEASING TO A PEACE OFFICER TO PROVIDE ADDITIONAL SECURITY, AND SO WE GAVE THEM THE DISCOUNT.

THEY WERE PART OF THE [INAUDIBLE]. WHAT IS IS THE OLDEST PROPERTY YOU ALL HAVE DONE THAT'S ACTIVE SENIOR LIVING? WHAT IS THE OLDEST WHAT? OLDEST PROPERTY YOU ALL HAVE DONE THAT'S ACTIVE SENIOR LIVING.

GEORGETOWN WAS OUR FIRST COLLECTIVE PROJECT.

AND THAT'S HOW LONG IT'S BEEN AROUND.

WE DEVELOP THAT BETWEEN 2018 AND 2020, AND WE SOLD IT AT THE END OF LAST YEAR.

OKAY, THAT'S NOT A LOT OF DATA TO GO OFF OF.

SO I'M JUST WE'RE CONCERNED AGAIN, THERE IS THE HISTORY THAT'S PRETTY RECENT AND FRESH IN EVERYBODY'S MINDS OF WHAT WE'RE OFFERING.

WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO SAY WE HAVE SENIOR HOUSING AND YOU ALL AREN'T DOING INCOME BASED.

YOU ALL AREN'T DOING FULL ON ACCESSIBILITY SO REALLY LIKE IT'S NOT SENIOR HOUSING, IT'S A MISNOMER. LIKE YOU SAY, MY BACKGROUND IS IN MARKETING.

I'VE OWNED A MARKETING FIRM AND YOU HAD TO BE VERY CAREFUL WITH YOUR TERMINOLOGY BECAUSE THEN YOU'RE SELLING SOMETHING YOU'RE NOT ACTUALLY SELLING, AND IT JUST MAKES ME FEEL ICKY AND I JUST I FEEL LIKE IF THAT MEANS IF YOU ALL HAVE TO GO BACK AND TRY TO GET FINANCING, I KIND OF WANT YOU ALL TO DO THAT TO PUT DEED RESTRICTIONS OR COVENANTS IN PLACE.

I DON'T SEE WHAT MAKES YOU ALL REALLY DIFFERENT FROM ANY OF THE OTHER MULTI FAMILIES THAT WERE DOING WITH WHO'S GOING TO BE INTERESTED IN THE SPACE.

I DON'T SEE THE TREND, AND MAYBE THAT'S I'D LIKE TO SEE SOME DATA BEHIND IT TO SEE WHO'S ACTUALLY BUYING IN MORE PROPERTIES THAN MAYBE YOU ALL HAVE ELSEWHERE IN TOWNS LIKE US TO SEE, OKAY AFTER SELLING THE PRODUCT TO ANOTHER BUYER, IT'S MAINTAINED FOR AT LEAST 10 YEARS MINIMUM AS AN ACTIVE SENIOR LIVING MULTIFAMILY SPACE, BECAUSE WE'RE JUST I'M NOT HEARING THAT DATA RIGHT NOW, AND THAT'S A HARD SELL FOR ME, AND SO THAT'S WHERE I AM

[00:50:07]

RIGHT NOW. I THINK IT'S A IT'S A GREAT PRODUCT, BUT THE FACT THAT WE CAN'T REALLY CAPITALIZE ON IT WITHOUT CONFUSING THE RESIDENTS AND GUARANTEEING THAT THERE WON'T BE SOMEBODY THAT KIND OF FLIES UNDER THE RADAR DOWN THE ROAD, TO ME, IT'S NOT MARKETABLE DOWN THE ROAD. SO, JUST I'M CURIOUS TO SEE.

NO, I MEAN, SO TO YOUR POINT, I AM NOT AWARE.

I COULD CERTAINLY GO ASK OUR CAPITAL MARKETS BROKERS AT JLL TO PULL NATIONAL DATA ON ANY CONVERSIONS OF ACTIVE ADULT PROJECTS.

AGAIN, TO MY KNOWLEDGE, THE BIGGEST PLAYER IN THE SPACE IS IS GRAYSTAR, WHICH IS A NATIONAL DEVELOPER.

THEY BUILD ALL OF THEIRS WITH BUILT IN COMMERCIAL KITCHENS, SALONS, THINGS TO EVENTUALLY MOVE THEM UP THE ACUITY SCALE, NOT DOWN.

I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY PROJECT AGAIN.

I COULD BE JUST MISINFORMED OF ANY PROJECT THAT WAS CONVERTED FROM ACTIVE ADULT TO MARKET RATE. SKY LIVING IN LEANDER WAS CONVERTED UP THE ACUITY SCALE.

WE HAD BUYERS THAT WANTED TO BUY OUR GEORGETOWN PROJECT AND THERE ARE REASONS THEY COULDN'T BUY. IT WAS THERE WASN'T SPACE FOR A COMMERCIAL KITCHEN BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO MOVE IT UP THE ACUITY SCALE, AND SO YOU REALLY THAT'S THE TREND THAT YOU SEE IN THE MARKET IS ONCE YOU LEASE TO THIS DEMOGRAPHIC, THE CHOICE OF EITHER LETTING EVERY LEASE ROLL AND LOSING MONEY IN THOSE MONTHS WHERE YOU'RE LOSING OCCUPANCY TO THEN RE-LEASE IT TO A DIFFERENT DEMOGRAPHIC IS NOT REALLY FINANCIALLY FEASIBLE.

YOU ARE MORE LIKELY TO KEEP THOSE RESIDENTS LET THEM AGE IN PLACE AND CONVERT THE PROJECT UP THE ACUITY SCALE VERSUS GETTING EVERYONE TO MOVE OUT AND THEN RELEASING IT, AND THAT'S THE TREND THAT YOU'VE SEEN IF YOU SEE THESE PROJECTS CONVERT AT ALL.

OKAY, THANK YOU. SO CAN I ASK SOME CLARIFICATION QUESTIONS? SO IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE SOME OF US UP HERE THINK THAT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO MARKET THIS AS 55 PLUS. ARE YOU GOING TO MARKET IT AS 55 PLUS? YES, AND SO SOME OF THE DESIGN CHANGES THAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR IN THIS ARE TO ACCOMMODATE TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR 55+ TO BE MARKETED AND AND FOR THOSE INDIVIDUALS TO BE MORE LIKELY TO BE HERE. MM HMM. ARE YOU GOING TO MARKET IT AS 55+ PLUS, BUT ARE YOU GOING TO ONLY LEASE TO 55 PLUS? SO YOU'RE LEGALLY OBLIGATED TO LEASE TO AT LEAST 80 PERCENT ABOVE 55 PLUS? OKAY, WHAT WE HAVE FOUND AGAIN IN OUR LAST PROJECT AND WHAT YOU SEE IN THE MARKET IS GIVEN THE DEMOGRAPHIC THAT MOVES IN, IT'S LESS DESIRABLE FOR 20 AND 30 YEAR-OLDS TO THEN GO LEASE THAT THAT SAME COMPLEX.

WHAT YOU FIND IS AGAIN, LIKE AT GEORGETOWN, WE HAD A PEACE OFFICER WITH WILLIAMSON COUNTY THAT WE LEASE THAT WAS UNDER 55 AND IT WAS A SECURITY OFFICER AT NIGHT, BUT AGAIN, I DON'T THINK WE HAD ANYBODY TO MY KNOWLEDGE, AND I'VE STILL GOT ACCESS TO OUR OLD RENT ROLL WITH THE LEASING DATA TO SEE IF ANYBODY WAS UNDER 55 OTHER THAN THAT PERSON, BUT TO MY KNOWLEDGE, WE DIDN'T HAVE A SINGLE PERSON UNDER 55 AND THE AVERAGE AGE WAS 72.

OKAY, BUT YOU BASED ON HOW YOU'RE GOING TO MARKET THIS, YOU'RE LEGALLY REQUIRED TO MARKET 80 PERCENT OR MORE, 80 PERCENT OR MORE IS THE FEDERAL STATUTE FOR [INAUDIBLE] ACTIVE ADULT [INAUDIBLE]. YOU'RE CALLING IT ACTIVE ADULT AND THERE ARE SOME GUARANTEES IN THERE, IT SOUNDS LIKE TO WHERE YOU AT A MINIMUM, 80 PERCENT WILL BE AT LEAST 55 AND OVER.

CORRECT. YOUR EXPERIENCE HAS BEEN IT'S CLOSER TO THE 70 YEAR RANGE IS WHERE PEOPLE ARE COMING IN. IF THIS WAS NOT A 55 PLUS PROJECT, WOULD YOU BE PUTTING ANY ELEVATORS AT ALL IN ANY OF THE BUILDINGS? NOT A SINGLE ONE.

THAT'S KIND OF WHAT I THOUGHT.

THAT'S WHY I WANTED TO ASK THAT QUESTION, BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF APARTMENT BUILDINGS OUT THERE THAT DON'T HAVE ELEVATORS AT ALL, AND SO AGAIN, YOU'RE ASKING FOR AN EXCEPTION TO AT A GREATER COST TO YOU BUILD A BUILDING THAT COSTS MORE FOR YOU TO BUILD AND MAINTAIN BECAUSE YOU'RE ADDING ELEVATORS TO ACCOMMODATE THE 55 PLUS--REALLY 70--AGE TO ACCOMMODATE THEM. I AM LOOKING THROUGH KIND OF THE DESIGN CONCEPTS YOU GOT IN THERE IN THE PACKET, AND I REMEMBER TALKING TO YOU GUYS BEFORE WHERE YOU'VE GOT A LOT MORE THINGS THAT ARE KIND OF GEARED TOWARDS, AGAIN, THE OLDER COMMUNITY PICKLEBALL STUFF THERE'S A DOG PARK IN THERE.

YOU WERE KIND OF AIMING IT MORE TOWARDS INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE YOUNGER FAMILIES WHO LIVE IN HUTTO, WHICH I KNOW WE'VE GOT A TON OF, AND THAT YOUR GUESS WAS THAT MOST OF THE PEOPLE WHO WOULD BE PROBABLY LIVING HERE WOULD BE GRANDPARENTS WHO WANT TO BE CLOSE TO THEIR GRANDKIDS AND SO THEY'RE GOING TO BE MOVING IN HERE SO THAT THEY CAN BE CLOSE TO THEIR CHILDREN AND THEIR GRANDCHILDREN.

THOSE ARE KIND OF WHO YOU WERE FIGURING ON COMING IN HERE.

SO IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE ARE SOME GUARANTEES THAT WE WOULD AT LEAST GET THAT, AND WHAT I ALSO HEARD FROM YOU GUYS WAS THAT IF THIS PUD DOESN'T GET APPROVED, THEN YOUR FALLBACK PLAN IS JUST TO SCRAP THIS ENTIRE PLAN, GO STRAIGHT MARKET RATE, BUILD REGULAR APARTMENTS

[00:55:01]

LIKE WE'VE GOT A WHOLE BUNCH OF THEM JUST NORTH OF YOU AND NORTHEAST OF YOU, AND IT WOULD JUST BE ANOTHER THING, SO WE WOULD ACTUALLY BE LOSING OUT, IN MY OPINION.

I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IS WE'VE GOT AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE A GREAT PRODUCT THAT CAN BE MARKETED TO 55 PLUS, BUT IF WE DON'T DO THIS, THEN WE'RE GUARANTEED TO GET NO 55 PLUS IS WHAT I'M HEARING.

YES, IT WOULD MAKE IT FINANCIALLY UNFEASIBLE FOR US TO DEVELOP THIS AS AN ACTIVE ADULT PROJECT WITHOUT SOME OF THESE VARIANCES THAT WE'RE REQUESTING, AND FOR AGAIN, A LOT OF THESE REQUESTS WOULD BE HANDLED WITH CITY STAFF IN JUST MINOR VARIANCES.

I KNOW IT'S OUR UNDERSTANDING THAT HUTTO STAFF DOESN'T HAVE THAT AUTHORITY.

SO AGAIN, I KNOW WE'RE COMING IN WITH A PUD.

A LOT OF JURISDICTIONS, MOST OF THESE WOULD JUST BE STAFF VARIANCES, AND AGAIN, WE'VE ALREADY GOT MULTIFAMILY DESIGNATION.

WE DON'T WANT TO NECESSARILY BUILD A MARKET RATE MULTIFAMILY DEAL.

THIS HELPS US BUILD AN ACTIVE ADULT PROJECT.

IT SEEMS LIKE A WIN WIN TO HAVE.

AGAIN, WE ARE BUILDING AN ACTIVE ADULT PROJECT.

WE'RE NOT OVERBUILDING THIS SPENDING MORE MONEY ONLY TO LEASE IT AT LOWER RENTS, WHICH MARKET RATE DEALS GET ABOUT 20 PERCENT LOWER RENTS THAN AN ACTIVE ADULT DEAL.

WE'D BE LOSING MONEY, FRANKLY, IF WE BUILT THIS TO THESE STANDARDS WOULD BE IRRESPONSIBLE OF US TO DO THAT, HANDS DOWN.

WE'RE ALREADY COMMITTED TO HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS TO DESIGN TO THIS ALREADY.

YEAH, THAT'S MONEY THAT WOULD BE LOST TO US IF WE HAVE TO REDESIGN IT.

I KIND OF WISH YOU ALL HAD LED WITH THE FEDERAL STATUTE ABOUT 80 PERCENT JUST SAYING BECAUSE I MEAN, THAT DOES CHANGE A LOT IN TERMS OF WHAT MY CONCERNS WERE OF WHO'S GOING TO BE LEASING AND ABLE TO BE LEASING HERE.

OR MAYBE YOU DID MENTION THAT LAST TIME AND I FORGOT THAT, BUT--I JUST HAD ONE LAST COMMENT, AND YOU CAN GO.

I'M SORRY. SO I GUESS JUST I'LL LEAVE WITH THIS, WE HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO PRETTY MUCH GUARANTEE TO HAVE WHAT KIND OF WHAT WE'RE ASKING FOR HERE TO HAVE IT IN WRITING THAT IT WOULD BE OVER 55 BACK WHEN WE HAD THE PREVIOUS DEVELOPER COME BEFORE US AND WANT TO DO A PID AND A PUD AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF, AND WE COULD HAVE EASILY MADE THAT THOSE REQUIREMENTS IN THAT DEAL AND HE WAS OPEN TO IT, HE SAID RIGHT HERE IN THE MEETING, I REMEMBER HIM SAYING THAT HE WOULD COMMIT TO BASICALLY THE GUARANTEES THAT WE WERE ASKING FOR, BUT WE CHOSE TO PASS ON THAT DEAL, AND SO RIGHT NOW, WE'RE I THINK THIS IS A FAR BETTER DEAL THAN SAYING NO, BECAUSE IF WE SAY NO, WE'RE GUARANTEED TO JUST GET ANOTHER BUNCH OF APARTMENTS THAT ARE JUST THE SAME AS WHAT WE'RE GETTING ALREADY.

THIS IS SOMETHING BETTER, IN MY OPINION.

I DO HAVE SOMETHING.

SO YOU'RE SAYING THE NORTH STAR AND GEORGETOWN, YOU WERE THERE '18-19.

WHEN DID YOU ALL START LEASING THOSE UNITS? WE STARTED LEASING IN OCTOBER OF 2020.

YOU SOLD WHEN? DECEMBER OF 2021.

OKAY, SO WHAT IS THE GUARANTEE THAT THE BUYER OF THIS DEVELOPMENT IS GOING TO KEEP IT FOCUSED ON 55 PLUS OR CAN YOU EVEN GUARANTEE THAT? SO YOU CAN'T YOU CAN'T GUARANTEE THAT.

WHAT YOU CAN ASSUME IS THAT THEY WILL BE DRIVEN BY FINANCIAL RETURNS AND IT WOULD BE A LOSING DEAL TO BUY THIS AND SPEND.

FRANKLY, I THINK 30 OR 40 PERCENT OF OUR LEASES AT GEORGETOWN WERE TWO YEAR LEASES, NOT ONE YEAR, BECAUSE A LOT OF THIS DEMOGRAPHIC, THEY WANT CERTAINTY THAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE THERE FOR THIS AMOUNT OF TIME, AND SO YOU'D HAVE TO BUY IT AGAIN, LET EVERY SINGLE LEASE EXPIRE, NOT RENEW THEM, HAVE ONE HUNDRED PERCENT VACANT BUILDING AND THEN START RE-LEASING IT BECAUSE AGAIN, THE FAIR HOUSING ACT WITH THE LEASE ADDENDUM OBLIGATES YOU TO NOTICE RESIDENTS IF YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GUARANTEE THAT 80 PERCENT OR 55 AND UP.

SO IT'S REALLY THE FINANCIAL INCENTIVE OR MOTIVATION TO BUY THIS WHEN IT IS AN ACTIVE ADULT PROJECT AND CONVERT IT TO MARKET RATE, IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE I'VE NEVER SEEN IT OCCUR IN THE MARKETPLACE.

I'VE ONLY SEEN THEM CONVERT IT UP THE ACUITY SCALE AND AGAIN SO THERE ISN'T REALLY A GUARANTEE. IT'S JUST WHAT'S GOING TO BE MOTIVATED BY THE FEASIBILITY OF GETTING IT DONE FINANCIALLY. I'M JUST REALLY FOCUSED ON LOOKING AT THE FUTURE DOWN THE ROAD 5, 10 YEARS, AND WE AS A COUNCIL APPROVED THIS TO COME IN FOCUSED ON 55 PLUS ACTIVE ADULT COMMUNITY AND THEN 10 YEARS FROM NOW, IT'S COLLEGE APARTMENTS AND THAT'S NOT SOMETHING I THINK FOR ME WHEN YOU CAME UP THERE AND YOU SAID IT WASN'T KIND OF LIKE A DO THIS OR WE'RE GOING TO DO THAT KIND OF A THREATENING WAY, BUT THAT IS HOW I PERCEIVED IT, AND ONE THING I DO NOT LIKE IS BEING TOLD YOUR HAND'S TO THE FIRE, YOU HAVE TO MAKE THE DECISION TONIGHT, AND IF YOU DON'T MAKE IT IN FAVOR OF US, WE'RE GOING TO TURN AROUND OR WE'RE GOING TO DO SOMETHING THAT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO LIKE EVEN MORE.

SO THAT'S JUST WHERE I'M AT, AND I HAVE NO OTHER QUESTIONS.

I APOLOGIZE FOR THE WAY THAT I FRAMED THAT AGAIN.

THAT WAS NOT INTENDED TO BE THREATENING AT ALL.

THAT WAS INTENDED TO BE JUST THE REALITY OF WHERE ALMOST A MILLION DOLLARS INTO THE PROJECT AND UNFORTUNATELY WITH WHERE WE ARE WITH THE FINANCING MARKETS, WHERE THEY ARE WE

[01:00:02]

ALREADY HAVE OUR INSTITUTIONAL EQUITY PARTNER SIGNED UP.

AGREEMENTS ARE DONE.

WE DON'T HAVE THE FLEXIBILITY TRUTHFULLY TO PUT ANY RESTRICTION IN PLACE.

WE WOULD HAVE TO BUY OUT OUR EQUITY PARTNER, WASH THE DESIGN DOLLARS AND FRANKLY, THE ABILITY TO DO THAT WOULD FORCE.

AGAIN, IT'S NOT A THREAT.

IT'S THE REALITY OF WE CAN'T JUST WASH OUR MONEY AND WALK AWAY TO GET OUR MONEY BACK.

WE'D HAVE TO DEVELOP IT AS MARKET RATE TO TRY AND MAKE THE DEAL WORK BECAUSE WE HAVE SPENT SO MUCH MONEY GEARING IT TO AN ACTIVE ADULT PROJECT.

AGAIN, NOT IN A THREATENING WAY.

I APOLOGIZE IF THAT'S THE WAY IT CAME OUT.

IT WAS THE REALITY OF HOW MUCH TIME AND ENERGY AND MONEY WE HAVE INVESTED AND WHAT WE WOULD HAVE TO DO, UNFORTUNATELY, TO GET THAT MONEY BACK.

WE'RE SYMPATHETIC TO WHAT THE COUNCIL'S INTENT HERE IS, BUT LIKE I SAID, WE DON'T CONTROL THE CAPITAL MARKETS. IF THE CAPITAL MARKETS UNDERWROTE SENIOR DEALS THE WAY THEY UNDERWROTE MARKET RATE DEALS, THIS WOULDN'T EVEN BE AN ISSUE, RIGHT? THERE WOULDN'T EVEN BE A REASON FOR US TO SAY, WELL, SURE, WE WON'T.

THERE WOULD BE NO REASON FOR US TO DENY A DEED RESTRICTION ESSENTIALLY.

IT'S ONLY THE DOLLARS INVOLVED IN THE DEAL THAT SORT OF PUT US IN THIS POSITION, IF YOU WILL. THIS MIGHT BE MORE OF A PROCESS QUESTION FOR YOU, ACTUALLY.

IS THERE A REASON FOR A DEVELOPER TO GET A MILLION DOLLARS INTO A PROJECT BEFORE WE GET TO THIS POINT TO BE LIKE, WE NEED YOU TO DO A DEED RESTRICTION OR A COVENANT AND THEN TO BE LIKE, OH NO, IT'S WE'RE ALREADY A MILLION IN AND CAN'T DO THAT.

YEAH, I THINK THERE IS, UNFORTUNATELY, WITH THESE, ESPECIALLY WITH PUDS, THERE'S SO MUCH SPECIFICITY THAT'S REQUIRED IN HAVING A PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT THAT THEY HAVE TO EXPEND ALL OF THAT MONEY TO BE ABLE TO MAKE SURE THAT THE SITE FITS, BE ABLE TO GET ALL THEIR ENGINEERING BEFORE THEY COME UP WITH THE PROPOSAL.

EVEN JUST GETTING THE ELEVATIONS AND THE TREE COUNT AND KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THEY CAN HAVE BECAUSE THE LEVEL IS SPECIFIED.

I HAD A FEELING THAT'S WHAT IT WAS, JUST CURIOUS.

COMMENTS FROM COUNCIL? YEAH, SO I TRY TO LOOK AT WHAT'S THE DOWNSIDE IF THINGS GO WRONG AND IF THINGS GO WRONG AND YOU? BUILD THIS AND NEVER RELEASE IT AT 55 PLUS, THAT'S WHEN IT WOULD HAPPEN IF IT WAS GOING TO, IT'D BE RIGHT FROM THE START AND WHAT WE'RE LEFT WITH THEN IS APARTMENTS THAT ARE A LITTLE BIT LOWER DENSITY THAN WHAT WE WOULD HAVE OTHERWISE, AND WE'VE GOT ELEVATORS AND SOME ACCESSIBILITY FEATURES IN THEM THAT STILL MAKE THEM USABLE FOR A WIDER RANGE OF PEOPLE THAN THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN.

THERE'S A LOT OF ACTIVE SENIORS STARTING AT 55 PLUS WHO END UP GETTING KNEE REPLACEMENTS AND HIP REPLACEMENTS AND WHATEVER, AND IF THEY CAN'T RECOVER AT HOME, THAT IS NOT A COMFORTABLE SITUATION FOR THEM, AND SO THEY DON'T WANT TO LIVE IN A PLACE IF THE FEAR OF HAVING A MINOR SURGICAL PROCEDURE THAT NEEDS A COUPLE OF WEEKS RECOVERY MEANS THEY CAN'T LIVE AT HOME ANYMORE FOR THAT PERIOD, THAT'S A DIFFICULTY.

SO SOMETHING LIKE THIS WITH THE ELEVATORS DEFINITELY HELPS IN THAT RESPECT.

THE ELEVATORS, AGAIN IS ONE OF THE BIG EXPENSES AND BIG FOCUSES OF THIS ASSET CLASS.

I MEAN, IF WE WANT TO PUT SOMETHING IN THERE THAT WE'RE REQUIRED TO HAVE ELEVATORS AS PART OF OUR BUILDING PERMIT SET, THAT'S ABSOLUTELY FINE.

AGAIN, WE ARE DEVELOPING THIS AS ACTIVE ADULT.

THERE ARE THINGS LIKE THAT DON'T PUNITIVELY HIT US ON THE BACK END THAT WE'RE FINE IMPLEMENTING AND INCORPORATING BECAUSE AGAIN, IT IS WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DEVELOP.

I THINK THAT TO ME IS HELPFUL.

IF WE CAN REQUIRE ELEVATORS, THAT HELPS BECAUSE THAT HELPS CEMENT THE PURPOSE OF THE BUILDING, AND IT ALSO HELPS CEMENT THE POSSIBLE USE OF IT, EVEN IF IT'S NOT RESTRICTED TO 55 PLUS IN THE FUTURE SO THAT PEOPLE CAN USE IT IN THAT AGE RANGE AND THE DOWNSIDE IS IF WE TURN THIS DOWN, AS WE'VE SEEN, DEVELOPMENTS ARE GOING IN LEFT AND RIGHT. IT'S APPROVED FOR MULTIFAMILY.

WHETHER YOU DEVELOP IT OR YOU CUT AND RUN UNTIL SOMEBODY ELSE, SOMEBODY'S GOING TO DEVELOP THAT LAND PRETTY SOON AS MULTIFAMILY AND PROBABLY MAX OUT THE DENSITY ON THAT PIECE OF PROPERTY. IT HAPPENED ON THE EAST SIDE OF EXCHANGE AND THERE WAS NOT A THING ANYBODY EVEN HAD INPUT INTO TRY TO SLOW THAT DOWN, WHICH SOME OF THE RESIDENTS ARE REALLY NOT HAPPY ABOUT NORTH AND SOUTH OF THERE BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT THEY WERE GETTING SOMETHING A LITTLE FRIENDLIER IN BETWEEN RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS AND GOT THREE-STOREY APARTMENTS WEDGED IN BETWEEN TWO RESIDENTIAL STREETS, WHICH I CAN UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE ARE UPSET WITH THAT. SO SIMILAR THING HAPPENING HERE WOULD NOT BE SEEN POSITIVELY IN THE AREA, BUT YEAH, IF WE CAN REQUIRE ELEVATORS, THAT DEFINITELY IS A HELP TO ME.

YEAH, WE HAVE ZERO ISSUE WITH THAT.

OUR PLANS HAVE ELEVATORS.

WE'RE BUILDING IT WITH ELEVATORS.

THAT'S NOT A BURDEN ON US.

IT STILL HITS THE TARGET OF THE DESIGN AND THE DEMOGRAPHIC AND IS SOMETHING THAT WE CAN EASILY ADD IN. CAN YOU ALSO REQUIRE THE OTHER ELEMENTS THAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE LOWER LIP AND THE SHOWERS AND THE SURROUND SHOWERS INSTEAD OF THE TUB SHOWER COMBOS?

[01:05:07]

I THINK IF WE'RE GOING TO GO IN THAT METHODOLOGY, THINGS LIKE THAT ON THE DESIGN SIDE WOULD MAKE SENSE.

I THINK IT'D JUST BE HOW THAT'S DRAFTED AND FOCUSED.

AGAIN, LIKE A TWO BEDROOM UNIT WOULD HAVE TWO DIFFERENT BATHROOM SETUPS.

ONE WOULD BE A SHOWER, ONE WOULD BE A TUB, AND SO IT'S THAT COMBINATION OF WHAT WOULD THAT EVEN LOOK LIKE? BUT THEN I THINK THE BIGGEST ONE LITTLE THINGS LIKE THAT ARE FINE.

IT JUST BECOMES HOW ARE WE REVIEWING THAT.

DOES IT SLOW EVERYTHING DOWN FOR US? DOES IT MAKE IT EVEN MORE BURDENSOME WHEN WE'RE REALLY TRYING TO PROVIDE A NEED AND A SERVICE FOR THE CITY? I THINK THAT JUST PROVES TO US THE SPIRIT OF WHAT OUR CONCERNS ARE BEING TAKEN IN TO CONSIDERATION WITH YOU GUYS ON A VERY SERIOUS LEVEL OF UNDERSTANDING, AND THAT'S GOING TO, I THINK, MAKE A MAJORITY OF US FEEL A LOT BETTER.

I THINK IT WAS 40 PERCENT OF THE DESIGN WAS DONE? I THINK WE'RE ABOUT 40 PERCENT CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS.

THE DESIGN ALREADY INCLUDES THE ELEVATORS OR THAT'S SOMETHING YOU'RE WORKING TOWARD? YES. WILL ALL THE UNITS HAVE THE LOWER LIP SHOWERS? I THINK YOU KIND OF TOUCHED ON THAT.

ARE YOU GOING TO JUST HAVE A PERCENTAGE OF THEM HAVE THAT ACCESSIBILITY? IT'S OUR INTENT. MY ONLY CONCERN WITH ADDING THAT TO THE POD IS JUST THAT THERE AGAIN, I DON'T WANT YOU GUYS TO THINK THAT I'M CRAWFISH ON HERE, BUT THE CONSTRUCTION MARKET IS ABSOLUTELY INSANE, AND SO IF YOU TELL US IN THE PUD, YOU MUST HAVE A SHOWER LIP THAT'S NO GREATER THAN AN EIGHTH OF AN INCH AND THOSE ARE SIMPLY NOT AVAILABLE AS MANY PRODUCTS ARE RIGHT NOW, AND WE HAVE TO GO WITH A QUARTER INCH, NOW WE'RE BACK BEFORE THE COUNCIL ASKING FOR ANOTHER VARIANCE.

SO THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS LIKE THE ELEVATORS ARE OBVIOUS, THEY'RE EASY.

THERE'S REALLY NO WAY TO CHANGE IT.

THERE STARTS TO GET INTO A GRAY AREA OF HOW DOES THE LANGUAGE LOOK FOR OTHER FINISHES IN REGARD TO WHAT DO WE RESTRICT OURSELVES TO? IT'S MY JOB TO BUILD IT AND DOWN THE ROAD, I ORDER IT AND THEY'RE LIKE, WELL, IT'S THREE MONTHS, THREE YEARS FROM NOW BEFORE YOU GET IT.

I JUST ORDERED FOUR HOLLOW METAL DOORS FOR A CONSTRUCTION PROJECT ON CESAR CHAVEZ, A COMMERCIAL DEAL, THEY TOLD ME, IT'S THIRTY THREE WEEKS, THIRTY THREE WEEKS FOR FOUR DOORS. SO, AGAIN, I THINK I WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE OPEN TO THAT PRE-PANDEMIC.

IT'S HARD FOR ME TO MAKE THAT COMMITMENT NOW, KNOWING THAT AGAIN, EVERY DAY THAT GOES BY MORE OF OUR MONEY IS COMMITTED TO THE DEAL AND THEN IF SOMETHING HAPPENS, WE ARE FORCED TO MAKE THE TOUGH DECISION OF HOW DO WE MODIFY THIS PROJECT SO WE CAN STILL GET IT TO COMPLETION, STILL MEET OUR MARKETING INTENT BECAUSE WE ARE MARKETING TO A SPECIFIC DEMOGRAPHIC AND STILL STAY WHOLE AND GET THROUGH THIS AND NOT GET BURNED.

THAT MAKES SENSE RIGHT NOW.

COULD YOU DO SOMETHING LIKE JUST SAY, LOWER LIP SHOWERS AND NOT WOULD NOT SPECIFY DOWN TO THE TO THE EIGHTH OF AN INCH? [INAUDIBLE] I MEAN, IF YOU COULD DO THAT I THINK THAT WOULD BE GOOD BECAUSE REALLY, I THINK IT'S JUST GETTING TO A COMFORTABILITY LEVEL BECAUSE I THINK YOU'RE KIND OF GETTING THE HINT THAT WE'VE BEEN BURNED A COUPLE OF TIMES, AND SO I THINK THERE'S SOME INDIVIDUALS UP HERE THAT ARE A LITTLE MORE TRUSTING THAN OTHERS, AND WE GET THAT.

I DID HAVE A QUESTION BASED ON SOMETHING THAT COUNCIL MEMBER SUTTON ASKED YOU OR SAID THAT SHE SAID THAT SHE'D BE CONCERNED IF YOU KNOW, THIS WAS 55 PLUS, AND THEN I THINK SHE SAID 10 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD CONVERTED OVER TO SOMETHING ELSE.

IF I UNDERSTOOD YOU RIGHT EARLIER, IN ORDER TO DO THAT, YOU WOULD HAVE TO VACATE EVERY SINGLE APARTMENT AND HAVE THE ENTIRE DEVELOPMENT EMPTY TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT, DEPENDING ON THE TIMING OF THE LEASES, BUT I MEAN, BY THE TIME YOU GET [INAUDIBLE] 215, SO REALISTICALLY, THERE'S NO WAY THAT WOULD EVER HAPPEN AT THE TIME. NO, BUT I MEAN 10 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD THAT THE NEW PERSON WOULD HAVE TO DO THAT. THERE'S A WAY.

THAT'S A FEDERAL STATUTE THAT IS PART OF THE LEASES THAT YOU CAN'T REMOVE.

IT COULD BE DONE, BUT THEY WOULD HAVE TO SINK COUNTLESS MILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF SUNK COSTS INTO THE PROJECT BEFORE IT COULD EVEN BE FEASIBLE.

NO ONE'S GOING TO DO THAT.

I COULD COME UP WITH A PLAN REALLY EASY.

YOU JUST GO MONTH A MONTH ON PEOPLE UNTIL THE 80 PERCENT THAT ARE OVER 55 LEASES ARE ALL UP, AND THEN YOU JACK THE RATE UP TO THE NEW MARKET RATE AND THEY ALL LEAVE.

I MEAN, WHERE THERE'S A WILL, THERE'S A WAY.

WHAT I KEEP HEARING IS I KEEP HEARING A LOT OF PROMISES.

TRUST US.

CAN'T COMMIT TO THIS, YOU CAN'T COMMIT TO THAT, IF YOU SAY A LOWER LIP, BUT DON'T PUT A SIZE IN BECAUSE YOU KNOW THE MARKET'S CRAZY.

AT THE END OF THE DAY, I MEAN, THIS IS THE SCARIEST THING I'VE EVER HEARD BECAUSE I'M HEARING PEOPLE SAY, TRUST YOU AND I'M IN COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT, AND THERE'S THE THING WE SAY AND I'M NOT SAYING YOU GUYS ARE DOING THIS, BUT WE ALL SAY IT, DEVELOPERS LIE BECAUSE IT'S ABOUT JUST GETTING THE DEAL DONE AND ONCE WE APPROVE THIS, IT'S GREAT THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ALL THESE THINGS YOU'RE GOING TO DO AND YOU'RE GOING TO PUT AN ELEVATOR IN, BUT WHEN WE APPROVE THIS PUD, YOU DON'T HAVE TO PUT THE ELEVATOR IN JUST BECAUSE YOU TOLD US YOU ONLY HAVE TO DO WHAT THE PUD SAYS AND YOU COULD LITERALLY LEAVE HERE HIGH FIVE, WALK OUT TO YOUR CAR AND GO, WE DID IT. WE GOT IT DONE, AND IT COULD NOT EVEN BE 55, AND THERE'S NOT A THING WE CAN DO, AND IT'S HAPPENED BEFORE RIGHT OFF LAKESIDE ESTATES THAT PEOPLE WANT TO DO SOMETHING AND THEY

[01:10:04]

WERE DOING SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

SO I GOT A QUESTION BEFORE YOU GUYS STARTED TALKING SO MUCH THAT THESE QUESTIONS STARTED COMING UP LIKE, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE CAN REQUIRE ELEVATORS BECAUSE THAT'S ALMOST LIKE REQUIRING BUILDING MATERIALS.

IS THAT RIGHT, CHRISTIAN? I DON'T KNOW THAT'S A BUILDING MATERIAL UNDER THE STATUTE.

OKAY, AND THEN YOU GO INTO TWO HUNDRED AND THIRTY FOUR.

ASHLEY, WHAT COULD THIS BE IF WE JUST LET THEM SAY, HEY, DO WHATEVER YOU WANT TO DO.

JUST FOLLOW THE ZONING TO THE LETTER OF THE LAW.

HOW MANY UNITS CAN THEY PUT IN? FOR THIS ONE, I KNOW THERE'S A LITTLE BIT MORE THAT CAN BE DONE.

I THINK WITH LIVE OAK GOING THROUGH, AND THERE WAS A SEPARATE AGREEMENT THAT WAS MADE WITH THE FORMER OWNER.

I BELIEVE THE AGREEMENT ENDED UP STATING ACROSS THE ENTIRE LANDING PROJECT THAT COULD HAVE UP TO NINE HUNDRED AND TWENTY UNITS TOTAL.

SO THEY ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO MORE THAN THE MAXIMUM IF WE STICK WITH THEIR REGULAR MULTIFAMILY ZONING.

SO THEY REALLY DON'T HELP US, BECAUSE HERE'S ANOTHER DEAL WE'VE GOT TO LOOK AT.

WE LIMIT THEM TO TWO THIRTY FOUR.

THAT DENSITY WE THINK WE'RE SAVING JUST GOT PICKED UP ON THE REST OF THE PROJECT BECAUSE THE PROJECT IS A WHOLE, THE WHOLE 20 ACRES OR WHATEVER IS NINE HUNDRED.

SO YOU GUYS COULD DO US A FAVOR ON A PIECE, BUT IT DOESN'T HELP US ON A REGULAR DEAL.

WE DON'T.

DEVELOPMENT WAIVER AGREEMENT IS BROKEN UP BY EACH PARCEL.

OUR PARCEL IS A MAX OF TWO THIRTY FOUR.

IF WE BUILT ONE UNIT, IT DOESN'T ALLOCATE THOSE TO THE OTHER PARCELS.

THEY'RE LIMITED INDIVIDUALLY AS WELL.

SO YOUR MAX IS TWO POINT THIRTY FOUR.

IT'S OUR MAX. AND YOU'RE GOING FOR TWO POINT THIRTY FOUR.

NO WE'RE GOING FOR 220 OR LESS.

SO TO [INAUDIBLE] MAYOR PRO TEM, WHAT I'M HEARING IS IF WE FAIL ON THIS, WE'RE ONLY TALKING 14 MORE.

UNITS, WHICH AT A NINE HUNDRED, IF THERE'S 14 MORE, AT LEAST THE KNOWN FOR ME IS BETTER THAN THE UNKNOWN. I MEAN, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, I KEEP HEARING ABOUT YOU DON'T CONTROL THE CAPITAL MARKETS.

FOR ME PERSONALLY, THIS IS JUST MY VIEW.

I DON'T THINK IT'S THE CITY COUNCIL'S JOB TO THEN TAKE ON THE WORRY OF THE CAPITAL MARKETS AND MAKE THINGS FAVORABLE FOR DEVELOPERS SO THAT THEY CAN DEVELOP WHAT MAKES IT ECONOMICALLY VIABLE FOR THEM.

I THINK OUR JOB IS TO MAKE SURE WHATEVER WE DO HAS TO BE IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE CITIZENS, THE TAXPAYERS.

IF WE START DOING DEALS THAT MAKE THE DEVELOPERS THE HAPPIEST, THEY'RE GOING TO DRAG US OUT OF HERE. I KEPT HEARING ABOUT DESIGN DOLLARS.

YOU WERE BRINGING UP THAT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO SCRAP THIS AND REDO IT IF WE DON'T AGREE TO THIS OVER FIFTY FIVE.

BUT I'M NOT FOLLOWING THAT BECAUSE IF YOU'RE DESIGNING IT FOR OVER FIFTY FIVE AND WE SAY YOU HAVE TO HAVE FIFTY FIVE, YOU DON'T HAVE TO REDESIGN IT BECAUSE WE'RE NOT SAYING, DON'T DO FIFTY FIVE.

YOU JUST HAVE TO GO GET A NEW CAPITAL PARTNER.

SO WHEN YOU TELL I FORGET WHICH COUNCIL MEMBER IT WAS THAT IF WE DON'T APPROVE THIS AND YOU HAVE TO GO REDESIGN IT, YOU ONLY HAVE TO REDESIGN IT IF YOU THEN WANT TO GO TO MARKET RATE. ALL YOU GOT TO DO IS SPEND THAT MONEY INSTEAD ON A NEW CAPITAL PARTNER.

TO THE COUNCILMAN VILLARREAL SALVO'S POINT.

I THINK THIS IS A PROCESS ISSUE, WHICH IS WHY I ALWAYS PERSONALLY PREFER A DEVELOPER TO COME UP, TALK TO US FIRST, GET OUR INPUT BECAUSE THEN YOU WOULD HAVE SEEN IT BEFORE YOU SPENT THE MONEY THAT HAVING SOMETHING IRONCLAD IS IMPORTANT, THEN YOU WOULD HAVE GONE EITHER JUST SAID I'M NOT DOING FIFTY FIVE OR YOU WOULD HAVE GOT A CAPITAL PARTNER THAT UNDERSTOOD, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LESS RETURN.

AND THEN MY LAST QUESTION? YOU KEEP SAYING MARKET RATES LESS SO YOU'RE TELLING ME YOU'RE CHARGING MORE FOR SENIOR CITIZENS. SO THE AVERAGE PREMIUM THAT YOU GET, WHICH ISN'T PROFIT THAT PULLS THROUGH.

IT'S ABOUT A 20 CENT PREMIUM.

SO IF [INAUDIBLE] MARKET IN HUTTO IS A DOLLAR 60 A FOOT FOR MARKET RATE MULTIFAMILY, AN ACTIVE ADULT, IT MIGHT BE A DOLLAR 80 A FOOT.

AND WHILE THAT LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE MAKING MORE MONEY, THE STAFFING NEEDS, THE PROGRAMING NEEDS ARE MUCH GREATER.

SO YOUR EXPENSES ARE SUBSTANTIALLY HIGHER, SO YOU DON'T REALLY GET THAT PULL THROUGH, IT JUST EVENS IT OUT.

SO YOU'RE ABLE TO CHARGE MORE.

AND IT'S THE SERVICES THAT YOU PROVIDE, I.E.

DAILY FITNESS CLASSES, COOKING CLASSES AND EXCURSIONS, WHICH WE HAVE A THIRD PARTY COMPANY COME IN AND PROGRAM.

THE COST OF THAT ESSENTIALLY IS PAID FOR IN THAT SLIGHTLY HIGHER RENT RELATIVE TO A MARKET RATE DEAL THAT WOULD NOT PROVIDE THOSE SERVICES.

BUT THAT'S YOU GUYS. BUT WHEN YOU SELL THIS IN TWO YEARS TO SOMEBODY ELSE, THEY MAY SAY, HEY, LOOK, THOSE PEOPLE DON'T NEED COOKING CLASSES.

THEY'VE BEEN COOKING FOR FIFTY FIVE YEARS.

SO WE'RE GOING TO CUT THAT OUT AND THEY DON'T NEED THIS AND THEY DON'T NEED THAT.

AND SO THEN AREN'T YOU JUST CHARGING A HIGHER RENT FOR? WE ALREADY HEARD THAT CARMEL CREEK.

THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE ANYBODY THAT STAFFS THE THING ANYMORE.

SO THAT'S ALL I GOT, BECAUSE WHAT I ALWAYS FIND IS I SAY SOMETHING AND I START HEARING THINGS AND I GO, I FEEL LIKE I'M GETTING SNOWED.

AND SO THEN I FEEL LIKE I GOT I GOT TO ASK SOME CLARIFYING QUESTIONS BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE I'VE BEEN HERE BEFORE. IT'S LIKE DEJA VU.

BUT I'D LIKE YOU GUYS JUST TO SAY, HEY, I'D LIKE TO WITHDRAW AND COME BACK WITH A PLAN TO

[01:15:03]

MAKE IT OVER FIFTY FIVE.

IF YOU ALL CHOOSE NOT TO DO THAT, THEN THE VOTES TO VOTE AND I'LL PROBABLY LOSE, BUT I REALLY WANT TO OVER FIFTY FIVE DEVELOPMENT.

BUT I WANT TO GUARANTEE AND I DON'T KNOW THAT I'M GOING TO GET THAT.

AND IF I DON'T HAVE A GUARANTEE, I MEAN, IT'S TOUGH FOR ME.

BUT ANYWAY. WELL, THAT WAS THE LAST OF THOSE, ANY OTHER.

WELL, JUST WHAT I HEARD WAS WE ARE GETTING OVER 55 DEVELOPMENT, I DON'T SEE ANY DOWNSIDE TO THIS BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING TO DESIGN IT FOR OVER FIFTY FIVE.

THAT'S WHO'S GOING TO YOU'RE GOING TO WANT TO COME HERE.

THAT'S WHAT YOUR PROGRAMING IS GOING TO BE DOING IT.

THERE'S NO ZERO REASON WHY YOU WOULD WANT TO DO IT.

I MEAN, I JUST I REALLY I SEE NO DOWNSIDE TO THIS WORST, WORST CASE SCENARIO.

YOU BUILD THIS AS WE WANT.

YOU PUT THE ELEVATORS IN, YOU PUT THE EXTRA RAMPS AND YOU DO ALL THIS EXTRA STUFF AND YOU SET IT UP FOR OVER 55.

AND THEN FOR SOME CRAZY REASON, YOU DECIDE NOT TO MARKET IT OVER FIFTY FIVE.

LIKE, LIKE THE MAYOR PRO TEM SAID, WE'VE STILL GOT NICER BUILDINGS, LONGER BUILDINGS WITH ELEVATORS THAT CAN STILL ACCOMMODATE OTHER PEOPLE.

AND THEN IF IT'S MARKET RATE, THEN IT'S EVEN EVEN LOWER.

AND IT'S EVEN BETTER. IT'S EVEN BETTER FOR US BECAUSE THEN THE RENTS LOWER AND THEN YOU GUYS ARE, YOU KNOW, KILLING, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY SHOOT YOURSELVES IN THE FOOT BY LOSING ALL THIS MONEY. I MEAN, I GUESS I JUST I GUESS I'M JUST NOT NOT SEEING WHAT THE CONCERN IS. SO AM I HEARING A MOTION COMING.

YES, SIR. SO I MOVE TO APPROVE 91 AS PRESENTED WITH WELL.

SO IN ORDER FOR US TO ADD THE EXTRA STUFF IN, LIKE THE ELEVATOR REQUIREMENTS IN THE LIPS AND ALL THAT, DO WE NEED TO BRING IT BACK? I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT WE BRING IT BACK JUST SO WE CAN.

THEN ON THE LANGUAGE AND I'D LIKE TO DO THAT.

I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO DIRECT THE CITY MANAGER TO WORK WITH STAFF AND TO WORK WITH THE DEVELOPERS TO WRITE UP SOME KIND OF WORDING TO MAKE US MORE COMFORTABLE WITH SPECIFICALLY EVERYTHING THAT YOU SAID THAT YOU'RE GOING TO ADD.

THAT WOULD MAKE THIS AN OVER 55.

SO GUARANTEEING THAT THE BUILDINGS ARE GOING TO HAVE ELEVATORS, THE LOWER LIP SHOWERS, I WOULD ADD IN THERE ANYTHING THAT YOU CAN THINK OF THAT MAKES THIS DIFFERENT THAN SOMETHING ELSE, LIKE THE EXTRA RAMPS THAT YOU HAD TALKED ABOUT, ANYTHING THAT YOU WOULD BE DOING DIFFERENT THAN YOU WOULD BE DOING IF IT WAS JUST STRAIGHT MARKET RATE.

I REQUEST THAT YOU GET THAT ADDED IN THERE AND THEN BRING IT BACK.

THAT'S A GOOD MOVE IF THEY CHALK IT FULL OF STUFF LIKE THAT AS SOMETHING CAN GET BEHIND BECAUSE THEN WE'LL LIVE UP TO THE INSPECTOR TO COME AROUND, AND YEAH, ALRIGHT MOTION BY COUNCILMEMBER GORDON, SECONDED BY COUNCIL MEMBER VILLARREAL SALVO DIRECTING STAFF TO OH, DO WE NEED TO TAKE A VOTE OR ARE WE JUST DIRECTING? YEAH, YOU WANT TO.

IT'S UP TO YOU GUYS. IF YOU'RE OK NOT HAVING IT, WE CAN TAKE NO ACTION.

ARE YOU COMFORTABLE WITH THAT? I MEAN, IF THERE IS ANY WAY TO VOTE SUBJECT TO, YOU KNOW, STAFF'S APPROVAL AND CONSIDERATION WITH YOU GUYS ALL ON SOME OF THESE ELEVATORS, THINGS LIKE THAT.

BUT AGAIN, WE'RE AT A POINT AGAIN ISN'T ANYBODY'S PROBLEM.

OUR SITE DEVELOPED PERMITS READY TO GO.

WE'VE DONE THAT BEFORE, TOO, AND THAT WOULD TAKE A VOTE BECAUSE NOT THAT WE DISTRUST STAFF, BUT AS SOON AS YOU SAY, HERE'S GENERALLY WHAT WE WANT AND WHATEVER STAFF COMES UP WITH, WE'RE GOING TO BE OK.

THAT'S A RECIPE FOR DISASTER.

YEP. IN MY MIND.

BUT IF YOU ALL WANT TO TAKE A VOTE FOR THAT, I WOULD BE MORE COMFORTABLE HAVING IT DONE BEFORE WE VOTE.

YEAH, I AGREE. IT'S IT'S TWO WEEKS.

I MEAN, YEAH, TWO WEEKS HAVE IT FOR NEXT MEETING.

IT WOULDN'T HAVE TO GO BACK TO P&Z.

NO. NOT UNLESS YOU GUYS GET CRAZY WITH SOMETHING.

NO, I THINK IF WE COULD GET WE'VE GOT A LITTLE BIT OF TIME, I GUESS.

YOU'RE NOT CHANGING ANYTHING.

YOU'RE JUST WRITING DOWN, PUTTING IN, WRITING WHAT YOU'RE DOING ALREADY.

THE NEXT COUNCIL, THESE TWO WEEKS, TWO WEEKS, TWO WEEKS FROM TONIGHT, THAT WILL WORK.

OK, I APPRECIATE THAT.

WELL, THANK YOU. JUST ONE FINAL COMMENT FROM ME.

I SORT OF HAVE HEARTBURN WITH THE DENSITY OF THE APARTMENTS THAT ARE BEING BUILT AROUND HERE. SO THE ONE THING THAT I LIKE ABOUT THIS IS THAT IT IS A LESS DENSE DEVELOPMENT.

AND IF WE SAY NO, IT SOUNDS LIKE IT COULD GET CHANGED AND IT BE A MORE DENSE, WHICH OBVIOUSLY THERE'S GOING TO BE MORE IN THAT AREA.

THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME PEOPLE THAT DON'T WANT HIGH DENSITY APARTMENTS.

THERE'S PEOPLE THAT DON'T LIKE HIGH DENSITY NEIGHBORHOODS.

SO. YOU KNOW, YOU GUYS ARE HEARING WHAT WE NEED AND WE JUST HOPE THAT THAT CAN BE WHAT COMES BACK TO US IS IS WHAT THIS COMMUNITY NEEDS, NOT WHAT'S EASIEST FOR YOU ALL TO DO.

BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THE DEVELOPERS BUILD IT AND THEN THEY'RE GONE AND WE'RE LEFT WITH WHAT'S LEFT. SO THAT'S THAT'S I THINK PART OF WHY ALL OF THE QUESTIONS ARE BEING ASKED OF

[01:20:06]

YOU. SURE.

ALL RIGHT, FELLAS, THANK YOU.

SEE YOU IN TWO WEEKS. AN HOUR AND A HALF LATER.

ASHLEY, DO YOU HAVE ANYBODY PURCHASING ON THE EITHER SIDE OF THIS PROJECT? SO I KIND OF KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO BE POTENTIALLY GOING IN NEXT TO THESE.

YOU GO BACK TO THIS MAP. SO THIS IS ACTUALLY THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE [INAUDIBLE] EXTENSION.

SO REALLY SOUTH OF THE HOME DEPOT LOT AND THE GOODWILL FROM THE REST OF THAT BACK IN THERE.

AND THEN YOU HAVE LIVE OAK AND THEN UP HERE WE ACTUALLY HAVE A SEPARATE PROJECT THAT JUST WENT TO P&Z RECENTLY.

IS THE IS THE WEST BORDER OVER THERE WHERE THAT WEIRD, REALLY NICE DITCHES WITH THE FENCES, THE CONCRETE LOADING DOCK, THAT'S GRASS.

YOU KNOW, I'M TALKING ABOUT. YES.

YES. OK.

I JUST DIDN'T KNOW IF THAT WAS LIKE BUILT ALREADY FOR A REASON.

BUT OK, SO SOME OF THAT IS BUILT BECAUSE OF THAT HOME DEPOT PARKING LOT.

SO IT'S KIND OF OFF SITE.

OK, AND THEN BUT THEN THROUGH HERE, WHERE THE LIVE OAK EXTENSION COMES THROUGH, YOU MAY RECALL THERE WAS A PROJECT CALLED SCHMITT'S CREEK THAT CAME THROUGH.

AND SO THAT'S ACTUALLY ON THE WEST SIDE OF THIS PROPERTY.

SO WE ARE CERTAINLY AND TO YOUR POINT, WE ARE CERTAINLY GETTING SEEING SOME DENSITY COME OVER HERE. THESE HAVE BEEN ZONED, I THINK MULTIFAMILY AS WELL AS AT HSA RESIDENTIAL, I THINK SINCE ABOUT 2006-2007 ISH TIME FRAME.

SO WE'RE STILL DEALING WITH SOME OF THAT INFILL DEVELOPMENT COMING BACK THROUGH.

AND IT'S COMMERCIAL. THOSE TWO LOTS DIRECT TO THE EAST OF IT ARE COMMERCIAL LOTS, RIGHT? I THINK THEY'RE SLATED TO BE SOME KIND OF OFFICE BUILDINGS OR SOMETHING.

THERE'S ONE, I BELIEVE, NORTH.

IT'S CALLED NORTH FOREST, IT'S ACTUALLY COMING BACK THROUGH.

IT WAS APPROVED PRIOR TO COVID, AND THEN THE CONSTRUCTION STALLED OUT WITH THE COVID PANDEMIC IN THE VERY BEGINNING OF 2020.

AND THEY HAVE COME BACK THROUGH AND THERE WAS A SMALLER LOT HERE THAT GAVE UP SOME PROPERTY ORIGINALLY FOR EDGE SCHMITT, AND THEY WERE ALSO LOOKING AT A COMMERCIAL PROPERTY OVER THERE. IT'S ALREADY ZONED COMMERCIAL, THOUGH YOU ARE CORRECT WITH THAT.

ASHLEY, CAN YOU POINT OUT WITH YOUR LITTLE MAGIC LIGHT WHERE THE LUTHERAN CHURCH IS, I MEAN, THE METHODIST CHURCH? OH GOSH, THIS HERE.

HERE, LET'S SAY HERE, I THINK THAT'S RIGHT THERE.

LIKE, RIGHT HERE, I THINK IT'S IT'S FURTHER NORTH.

IT'S THE ONE RIGHT EDGE.

SO LIVE OAK COMES THROUGH.

YEAH, IT MIGHT ACTUALLY BE BECAUSE IT'S RIGHT NORTH OF THE CHIPOTLE IN THE TACO PROCESS.

IT'S KIND OF A MS. END BECAUSE I KNOW WE TOOK A SIGN OUT BECAUSE IT WAS IN THE SITE TRIANGLE FOR THE CHURCH.

WE WERE GETTING SOME CONFLICTS, SO WE TOOK SOMETHING OUT OVER THERE.

SO THAT THREE FIFTY ACTUALLY IS PROBABLY ALL OF THE CHURCH PROPERTY.

YEAH, BECAUSE THE CHURCH SITS OVER HERE, BUT I KNOW THAT THEY DO HAVE A MUCH LARGER PROPERTY BEHIND. AND THEN LIVE OAK WILL COME THROUGH NORTH OF [INAUDIBLE] SCHMITT'S CREEK IS HERE. AND THEN THAT'S WHERE THE KIND OF THAT PECAN GROVE IS ON THAT SOUTH SIDE AND THEY'RE SAVING THE MAJORITY OF THAT.

OK. THANKS. THANKS, ASHLEY.

ALIGHT, ITEM 9-2, CONSIDERATION OF A PUBLIC HEARING AND POSSIBLE ACTION ON ORDINANCE

[9.2. Consideration of a public hearing and possible action on Ordinance No. O-2022-007 approving a Specific Use Permit for the property known as 208 West Austin Avenue and 201 West Front Street, to allow a warehouse use (UDC 10.304.7). (Ashley Lumpkin)]

NUMBER TWENTY TWENTY TWO DASH ZERO ZERO SEVEN APPROVING A SPECIFIC USE PERMIT FOR THE PROPERTY KNOWN AS 208 WEST AUSTIN AVENUE AND 201 WEST FRONT STREET TO ALLOW A WAREHOUSE USE UDC 10.304.7.

OK, SO THIS IS JUST UNDER AN ACRE PROPERTY.

LET ME GET TO THE MAP RIGHT HERE. YOU CAN SEE THE REASON FOR THE TWO ADDRESSES IS ON FRENCH STREET AS WELL AS AUSTIN, AND YOU CAN SEE FROM THE AERIAL.

THERE IS ALSO A LITTLE BIT OF AN ENCROACHMENT INTO THAT OUR PD'S DRIVEWAY.

SO WE WILL BE GOING THROUGH A REPLAT THAT'S ACTUALLY IN, BUT IT'S BEEN TABLED UNTIL WE CAN FIGURE OUT IF THIS USE WILL BE APPROVED BECAUSE IT'S THAT SPECIAL DISTRICT, A USE THAT'S IN THAT OLD TOWN DISTRICT, IT IS REQUIRED TO HAVE A SPECIFIC USE PERMIT, MAINLY JUST TO LOOK AT THE INTENSITY AND OF WHAT TYPE OF USE IT COULD BE.

BUT I DO WANT YOU TO KEEP IN MIND THAT FOR THIS PROJECT, BECAUSE IT'S IN THAT OLD TOWN DISTRICT, THEY STILL WOULD HAVE TO COME THROUGH FOR HPC APPROVAL, HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS.

SO ANY NEW BUILDING WOULD HAVE TO GO THROUGH A SEPARATE STEP WITH THAT COMMISSION.

AND THEN THEY'D STILL THEN HAVE TO GO THROUGH A FULL SITE PLAN PROCESS AND THE BUILDING PERMIT PROCESS. SO THIS IS REALLY JUST FOCUSING ON THE USE OF A WAREHOUSE.

AND THEN WE HAVE STAFF WILL HAVE TO GET INTO SEVERAL MORE STEPS, INCLUDING ANOTHER COMMISSION MEETING THROUGH THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION.

LET ME GET BACK TO HERE, SO HERE'S JUST A REALLY QUICK KIND OF OVERVIEW OF WHAT THE SITE COULD LOOK LIKE, BUT AGAIN, AS I SAID, ALL OF THIS IS JUST REALLY CONCEPTUAL AT THIS POINT. NOTHING HAS BEEN IMPROVED.

NOTHING'S BEEN SUBMITTED.

WE'RE NOT GOING TO HPC.

WE JUST NEED TO CONCENTRATE ON THE USE.

AND I WILL ALSO POINT OUT THAT NOTHING HAS OUTDOOR STORAGE.

SO THIS IS REALLY MORE OF A PLACE WHERE THEY WILL HAVE SMALLER BOX TRUCKS.

SO YOU CAN SEE KIND OF REFLECTED HERE AND THEY GO OUT, THEY FIX APPLIANCES AND THEN THEY

[01:25:01]

COME BACK TO THE STORE.

SO IT'S A LITTLE BIT IT'S A ACTUALLY A LOCAL OWNER, SO HE WANTS TO BUILD DOWNTOWN AND THAT'S HIS BUSINESS. AND SO HE DOES NEED A LITTLE BIT OF AN OFFICE WAREHOUSE SPACE.

AND RIGHT THERE, YOU CAN SEE WE SENT NOTICES TO SIXTY NINE ADJACENT PROPERTY OWNERS WITHIN THAT SIX HUNDRED FEET AND WE RECEIVED ONE IN FAVOR TO DATE OF THE THING.

SO STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS HPC MUST GRANT A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. APPLICANTS MUST MEET ALL THE SITE DESIGN CRITERIA.

ONLY ONE DRIVEWAY IS PERMITTED OFF OF WEST AUSTIN AVENUE.

THE REPLAT OF THE PROPERTY IS APPROVED AND RECORDED PRIOR TO SITE PLAN PERMIT ISSUANCE, AND THERE WOULD BE NO OPEN STORAGE.

SO WITH THAT, I CAN LEAVE YOU WITH THAT AND IT IS A PUBLIC HEARING AS WELL.

SO IT'S OK. WE'LL OPEN UP THE PUBLIC HEARING FIRST AND THEN WE'LL LET COUNSEL TALK.

SO WELCOME TO PUBLIC HEARING AT EIGHT TWENTY SIX P.M..

IS THERE ANYONE FROM THE PUBLIC THAT WISHES TO SPEAK? ON THIS ORDINANCE FOR THE WAREHOUSE.

SEEING NO ONE, WE WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AT EIGHT TWENTY SIX AND OPEN US UP FOR CITY COUNCIL COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS.

SO ACTUALLY, IF I REMEMBER RIGHT FROM THE PLANNING AND ZONING DISCUSSION, ONE OF THE CONCERNS THEY BROUGHT UP WAS THEY DID NOT WANT TO SEE BIG 18 WHEELERS DRIVING THROUGH HERE. AND FROM WHAT I REMEMBER WITH THIS USE, IT'S NOT DELIVERING LIKE MASSIVE NUMBERS OF APPLIANCES, IT'S JUST THERE, A REPAIR SHOP.

AND SO THEY'RE BRINGING THEM IN ONE AT A TIME.

IT'S VERY SMALL BOX TRUCKS.

SO THE THE, YOU KNOW, THE LIKELIHOOD OF BIG 18 WHEELERS IS CORRECT AND THERE REALLY ISN'T ENOUGH SPACE TO BE ABLE TO MANEUVER THEM THROUGH.

AND THEN ALSO KEEP IN MIND THAT THE MAJORITY OF TRUCK TRAFFIC IS LIMITED ON AUSTIN, AS WELL AS FRONT STREET IN THAT DOWNTOWN DISTRICT.

SO YOU'RE LIMITED TO THE SMALLER TRUCK SIZES.

I KNOW WITH WAREHOUSE, THAT'S KIND OF LIKE YOU THINK YOU'RE THINKING MASSIVE TRUCKS, AND THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS IS.

IT WILL NOT BE THAT IF YOU WANTED TO MAKE BELIEVE IN THE ORDINANCE, YOU COULD ACTUALLY LIMIT IT TO A SIZE.

I WOULD HAVE TO LOOK UP THE SIZE OF TRUCK.

I'M NOT SURE OF THE TONNAGE ON AN 18 WHEELER OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD FOR QUITE A WHILE.

THAT'S SOMETHING I'M INTERESTED IN BECAUSE, AGAIN, SAME ISSUE AS THE PREVIOUS DEVELOPER.

IF HE SELLS HIS BUSINESS OR THIS LOCATION, WHAT'S TO PROHIBIT ANOTHER USER FROM COMING IN AND TRYING TO MANEUVER AN 18 WHEELER ON DIFFERENT STREET LIKE THAT OR ON WEST AUSTIN STREET? AND SO I THINK THAT WOULD BE REALLY GOOD INFORMATION FOR US TO HAVE GOING FORWARD IS FOR THE ORDINANCE.

THE LIMIT ON THE TONNAGE FOR THE TRUCKS WOULD BE GREAT.

AND SO THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING IS AN OFFICE SHOWROOM.

SO THIS IS JUST CONCEPTUAL.

SO THE FRONT OF IT WOULD JUST BE KIND OF THE OFFICE SHOWROOM AND THEN THEY WOULD HAVE THEIR INTERIOR STORAGE.

THAT'S THE PUBLIC FACING SPACE.

THIS SIDE WOULD BE THIS IS THE FRONT STREET SIDE.

THIS WOULD BE THE PUBLIC FACING SIDE AND THEN THE REAR.

AND THEN THIS IS THE PD DRIVEWAY FOR THE MOST PART.

WELL, THEY HAVE A PRIVACY FENCE BETWEEN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND THERE THEY WOULD NOT BE REQUIRED TO BECAUSE IT BE COMMERCIAL TO COMMERCIAL.

PD IS ALSO AN ENCLOSED AREA, SO DEPENDING ON WHERE THE DRIVEWAY WORKS OUT, THEY MAY BE ABLE TO PUT UP A FENCE.

BUT I'D BE CONCERNED ABOUT CREATING THAT ALLAWI, BACKED BY THE PD MAIN ENTRANCE WITH THEIR FENCES AS WELL, EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE THE SECURITY FENCES, RIGHT? OK. SO IF THERE'S A SHOWROOM, WHAT KIND OF I MEAN, ARE THEY SELLING PRODUCTS? IS THERE A NAME OF THE BUSINESS OR MORE INFORMATION YOU HAVE ON THAT? CERTAINLY. AND I HAVE THE APPLICANTS REPRESENTATIVE HERE AS WELL.

IF YOU'D LIKE TO HEAR FROM THEM, I'M NOT SURE ON THE NAME OF THE BUSINESS.

WE MORE JUST DEAL WITH THE SPECIFIC USE OF WHAT THEY WANT TO DO ON THAT PROPERTY.

BECAUSE FOR ME PERSONALLY, WE'VE ALREADY TOUCHED ON THE TRAFFIC SITUATION IN THAT AREA.

AND ALSO, THIS IS A PRIME PIECE OF PROPERTY THAT ONCE WE FOCUS ON DOWNTOWN IN HISTORIC, WHAT KIND OF BUILDING? I MEAN, IT'S TO ME, IT JUST SEEMS LIKE A LOCATION FOR MAYBE SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

AND THAT'S JUST MY OPINION.

YOU KNOW, OPPORTUNITIES IN THE NEXT TEN YEARS, IF YOU WOULDN'T MIND, I'LL ASK THE APPLICANTS REPRESENTATIVE TO COME UP.

I DO WANT TO POINT OUT IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, UNLIKE THE MASONRY FROM BEFORE, BECAUSE WE HAVE AN ESTABLISHED ZONING INAUDIBLE HISTORIC DISTRICT PRIOR TO THE MASONRY PREEMPTION BY THE STATE, WE ARE STILL ABLE TO GET SOME MASONRY IN OUR HISTORY.

OKAY, GREAT. YEAH, THAT WAS ONE AMAZING THING BECAUSE WE HAD THAT HISTORIC DISTRICT.

SO WE DO HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE ALLOWANCES THROUGH THE HPC TO SHOW THEM WHAT THE BUILDING'S GOING TO LOOK LIKE AND HAVE IT MATCH IN A LITTLE BIT MORE WITH THAT SURROUNDING AREA AND HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE OF THE FEEL OF THAT SOUTH SIDE OFF THE FRONT STREET. OK.

THANK YOU ASHLEY.

GOOD EVENING COUNCIL. MY NAME IS [INAUDIBLE] I DO REPRESENT THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY AND MR. ALVARADO, AND JUST TO GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT OF BACKGROUND ON THE COMPANY AND HIM.

[01:30:02]

HE'S LIVED IN HUTTO FOR OVER 10 YEARS AND HE'S BEEN LOOKING FOR A PROPERTY TO REALLY INVEST IN AND JUST INVEST IN HUTTO IN GENERAL.

HIS PLAN IS TO PUT THE WAREHOUSE IN THE BACK FOR STORAGE.

BUT I DO WANT TO MAKE A CORRECTION.

HE DOES ALSO SELL APPLIANCES AS WELL.

THAT WAS SOMETHING I WASN'T AWARE OF, SO I WANT TO MAKE THAT CORRECTION.

BUT HIS PLAN FOR THE FRONT OF THE PROPERTY, WHAT WILL REALLY BE SEEING ON 79 AND ON FRONT STREET WILL BE TO PUT SEVERAL DIFFERENT, MAINLY A HIGH END KIND OF OFFICE AND SHOWROOM FOR HIM, BUT THEN ALSO HAVE A COUPLE OF OTHER TENANTS AS WELL, WHERE HE CAN ALLOW LOCAL BUSINESSES TO LEASE OUT SPACE.

SO IT WOULDN'T BE JUST APPLIANCES, IT WOULD BE WHAT OTHER USES AS WELL THAT WOULD BE BENEFICIAL TO THE CITY.

SO WHEN YOU SAY STORAGE, WHAT WILL BE STORED? APPLIANCES, APPLIANCES.

YES MA'AM. SO DOES HE SELL USED AND REFURBISHED APPLIANCES, BRAND NEW APPLIANCES? NEW, BRAND NEW. OK.

WHAT TYPE OF APPLIANCES? DRYER, WASHER.

SO YOUR HOME APPLIANCE IS NOT RESIDENTIAL? CORRECT. OK. CORRECT.

YES. I'M LIKE HUGE AGE FACTS.

NO, NO, NO. AND IN FACT, TO ANSWER THE TRUCK QUESTION AS WELL BECAUSE I WANTED TO GET SPECIFIC ON THAT.

IT'S 20 FOOT AND 30 FOOT TRUCKS, AND THAT WOULD BE THE LARGEST THAT YOU WOULD SEE.

THANK YOU. ABSOLUTELY.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FROM COUNCIL? SO IS HE TAKING DELIVERY FROM MANUFACTURERS DIRECTLY OR FROM BECAUSE YOU CAN CONTROL YOUR OWN TRUCKS, BUT WHEN YOU'RE TAKING DELIVERIES OF NEW APPLIANCES, IT'S HARD TO CONTROL WHAT THEY'RE BRINGING. FROM WHAT I'M UNDERSTANDING FROM THE OWNER IS THEY WOULD NOT BE THEY WOULD NOT HAVE ANY 18 WHEELERS ON THAT SIDE AT ALL BECAUSE I'VE MADE THAT VERY CLEAR TO THEM. THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT YOU GUYS DID NOT WANT.

PLANNING AND ZONING DID NOT WANT AT ALL.

SO WHAT I'M UNDERSTANDING IS IT WOULD JUST BE THEIR TRUCKS COMING IN.

BUT YES, THAT THAT DOES.

I MEAN, WE DO NEED A LITTLE CLARITY ON THAT, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.

I GUESS I'M JUST REALLY TRYING TO CONCEPTUALIZE WHAT THIS LOOKS LIKE.

SO THERE'S GOING TO BE WAREHOUSE IN THE BACK, BUT ON THE FRONT END IT'S GOING TO BE KIND OF GLASS SHOWROOM.

BUT THEN THERE'S OFFICES IN THE BACK AND THEN HE'S GOING TO RENT OUT TWO OR THREE SPACES OF THE SHOWROOM. SO I'M JUST REAL.

BUT THOSE ARE NOT GOING TO BE APPLIANCES, SO I'M JUST TRYING TO PICTURE FOR THE FRONT STREET. WHAT IS THAT? WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO SEE LIKE APPLIANCES AND THEN A CPA AND THEN A DOG GROOMER? I DON'T KNOW.

LIKE, WHAT IS IT? I'M JUST TRYING TO CONCEPTUALIZE AND REALLY PICTURE WHAT THIS IS GOING TO REALLY LOOK LIKE.

YEAH. SO HIS PLAN IS TO HAVE SEPARATE UNITS, A SEPARATE TENANTS, AND SO THE SHOWROOM WILL BE SMALL. IT'S NOT GOING TO BE LARGE FIFTEEN HUNDRED TWO THOUSAND SQUARE FEET, A FEW OFFICES IN THE BACK.

AND THEN HE'LL HAVE SEPARATE INDIVIDUAL SPACES FOR EACH TENANT TO LEASE OUT, SO THEY WOULD HAVE THEIR OWN ENTRANCE EXIT.

BUT I'M SURE THE USES I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN KNOWING WHAT YOU GUYS WANT TO SEE IN HUTTO AS WELL, WHAT USES IT THAT YOU NEED MORE OF AS THE CITY IS GROWING TREMENDOUSLY.

BECAUSE THE REAL TALK IS THEN FOCUS ON THOSE USES, I MEAN, NO COMMITMENT, BUT, YOU KNOW, WE'D LIKE TO I'M LOCAL, SO I WANT TO BRING IN WHAT YOU GUYS WANT TO SEE.

SO IT ALMOST LOOKED LIKE A LITTLE STRIP CENTER.

THEY'RE FACING FRONT STREET.

DID IT HAVE HIS PLUS ANOTHER THERE, BUT IT WOULD FACE FRONT AND THEN THE WAREHOUSE WOULD BE BEHIND THAT? EXACTLY.

YES, SIR. I GUESS I'M JUST CONCERNED, ESPECIALLY SINCE.

IF YOU NEED CLARITY ABOUT THE 18 WHEELERS, THEN I DEFINITELY THINK IT SHOULD COME BACK WHEN WE HAVE THAT CLARITY BECAUSE I DON'T WANT 18 WHEELERS GOING DOWN AUSTIN AVENUE.

THERE ARE THERE'S NOT A VERY WIDE ROAD AND THERE'S A LOT OF HOMES AND I DON'T AS FAR AS THE THE ROADS IN HUTTO IN GENERAL, I DON'T KNOW OF THE.

I JUST DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH OF 18 WHEELER TRAFFIC IT COULD REALLY TAKE.

AND FOR HOW LONG? SO FOR ME, THAT'S REALLY A BIG ISSUE SINCE ESSENTIALLY SINCE THAT'S WHERE THE DRIVE IS GOING TO BE.

I MEAN, I GUESS THEY COULD GO DOWN JIM CAGE.

BUT STILL WITH AUSTIN AVENUE AND THE TRACKS AND THE LIGHT, I WOULD ALMOST VENTURE TO SAY THEY'D PROBABLY GO DOWN TO AUSTIN AVENUE WOULD BE A LITTLE BIT LESS LIKELY TO HIT BLOCKAGES, I DON'T KNOW, I'M JUST FOR ME, I'M REALLY HESITANT RIGHT NOW JUST UNTIL WE ACTUALLY HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE CONCRETE INFORMATION AND HAVE THAT CLARITY.

OK, THAT'S UNDERSTANDABLE.

IS THE OWNER COMFORTABLE IF WE MADE THAT A REQUIREMENT TONIGHT? I THINK SO. I THINK HE WOULD BE.

BECAUSE THEN HE'D HAVE TO.

[01:35:03]

THEN HE'D WORK IT OUT WITH THE DELIVERY GUYS, RIGHT? YEAH, EXACTLY.

SO THAT WOULD REQUIRE LARGE TRUCKS AS AN 18 WHEELERS TO USE AUSTIN AVENUE.

NO, THEY WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO COME THERE AT ALL, AT ALL.

YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I.

I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT'S ALL GOING TO WORK IN GENERAL WITH THAT INTERSECTION AT JIM CAJUN YEAH, IT'S YEAH, IT'S HARD ENOUGH TO GET BY JUST IN CARS.

OH, YEAH, YEAH. WELL, AND THE PREFERENCE IS THAT TRUCKS WOULD GO INTO THE BACK BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE THE WAREHOUSE WILL BE.

THAT'S WHERE THE STORAGE IS GOING TO BE ANYWAY.

RIGHT. BUT HOW DO THEY ACCESS THE BACK? THEY WOULD EITHER HAVE TO GO DOWN FRONT OR AUSTIN AVENUE? YEAH. AND HOW DO YOU GET TO AUSTIN AVENUE? AND WE HAVEN'T GONE THROUGH SITE PLAN YET, SO THE LAYOUT IS, YEAH, YEAH.

IT'S MY ONLY CONCERN IS WE CAN'T KEEP TRUCKS OFF THE CURRENT NO TRUCK ZONES IN THE CITY.

AND SO IF WE WERE TO ME PERSONALLY, WE EITHER SHOULD HAVE THE TRUCKS THERE AND JUST LET IT BE. OR IF WE START PUTTING STIPULATIONS, THEN IT'S GOING TO BE COMPLAINTS THAT WE THEN ARE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO CONTROL BECAUSE WE STILL CAN'T CONTROL THE TRUCKS OFF 1660.

AND I'M NOT SAYING THAT'S WHY WE SHOULD DO IT.

BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S A WAY.

TO GET CREATIVE AGAIN, LIKE THIS LAST DEAL TO WHERE WE CAN FIGURE OUT SOME WAY TO WHERE, WHETHER IT BE A SITE PLAN THING TO WHERE LITERALLY NO WAY A TRUCK COULD USE LIKE, LET'S SAY, THE COUNCIL ONCE OR WE WANT THEM TO COME IN AUSTIN AVENUE AND OFFER FRONT STREET OR WE WANT TO COME IN OUR FRONT STREET THE WAY THAT THE LAYOUT, IF I READ THE LAYOUT RIGHT THERE COMING IN FROM AUSTIN.

BUT WHAT DO WE WANT? I'M SAYING BECAUSE WHAT WE CAN DO, I THINK, IS SAY, IF WE DON'T WANT THEM ON US AUSTIN AVENUE, WE JUST DIRECT STAFF TO NOT ALLOW AN ACCESS POINT ON AUSTIN AVENUE, AND THEN THEREBY THEY WOULD HAVE TO GO TO FRONT STREET IF WE DON'T WANT THEM ON FRONT STREET AND WE WANT THEM TO COME IN ON AUSTIN AVENUE, THEN WE MAKE IT TO WHERE YOU KNOW IT'S.

ASHLEY, I CAN'T HEAR YOU.

YEAH, YOU COULD CONDITION THAT THE TRAFFIC WOULD HAVE TO COME IN OFF A JIM CAGE, AS YOU SAID. MR. MAYOR, YOU COULD ALSO SAY THERE'S NO DIRECT ACCESS TO AUSTIN, AND YOU CAN ALSO DESIGN THE SITE TO BE ONLY COMPATIBLE WITH 20 FOOT OR 30 FOOT BOX TRUCKS.

SO WE CAN DO THAT.

AND THEN AUSTIN AND FRONT ARE ALSO ALREADY NO TRUCK ZONES.

YEAH, CERTAINLY.

I THINK VALERO'S HAD SOME OF THOSE ISSUES AS WELL, JUST GETTING IN BECAUSE THEIR ONLY ENTRANCES OFF OF FRONT AND AUSTIN.

BUT CERTAINLY WE COULD CONDITION ALL OF THOSE THINGS THAT AT A SITE PLANNING LEVEL, WHEN THEY COME BACK FROM HPC AND THAT APPROVAL, THEN STAFF WOULD HAVE TO LOOK AT THIS IS EXACTLY HOW THIS SPECIFIC USE PERMIT WAS DONE.

AND THIS IS HOW WE HAVE TO REVIEW IT.

OH, ASHLEY, [INAUDIBLE] THEY'VE RECEIVED A NOTICE ON THIS AS WELL SINCE HER PROPERTY LINES UP SIDE BY SIDE.

YES, EVERYBODY ON THAT MAP RECEIVED ONE.

SO WE DID SIXTY NINE ADJACENT PROPERTY OWNERS.

SEEMED LIKE IT WOULD MAKE SENSE THAT THE TRUCK TRAFFIC WITH SMALLER TRUCKS ONLY BE ABLE TO UTILIZE AUSTIN AVENUE BECAUSE, LIKE COUNCIL MEMBER KINSEY SAID, FRONT STREET IS NARROW AND WE DON'T REALLY HAVE MUCH.

IT'S EXTRA SPACE TO WIDEN IT, AND I DON'T KNOW IF ANY OF YOU ALL HAVE DRIVEN ON FRONT STREET, BUT THERE ARE TIMES OF THE DAY THAT THE TRAFFIC IS DOWN PAST TIGER ROCK.

SO. YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S WORTH IT BEING RIGHT THERE AT THE INTERSECTION AND THE RAILROAD TRACK. IT'S GOING TO BE DIFFICULT FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE TO BE COMFORTABLE TO EVEN OFFICE THERE BECAUSE IT'S GOING TO BE LOUD.

AND, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, WE COULD SOMEWHERE LOOK AT QUIET ZONE FOR THE INTERSECTIONS.

AND, YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK THAT THAT'S A BAD, A BAD ROUTE TO TO KIND OF LOOK, THERE WAS.

THAT HAS BEEN LOOKED AT IN THE PAST.

BUT. YOU KNOW, AUSTIN AVENUE DOESN'T THERE'S NO THROUGH TRAFFIC THERE, SO THEY'VE GOT TO GO BACK TO JIM CAGE OR ALL THE WAY TO 60 AND 60 SOUTH TO TURN AND YOU KNOW, BOTH BOTH OF THOSE ROADWAYS ARE VERY CONGESTED NOW.

SO IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO KNOW, YOU KNOW, WHAT KIND OF TRAFFIC IN TERMS OF TRUCKS

[01:40:04]

WOULD BE HIS ANTICIPATION.

AND THAT MAY NOT EVEN BE A QUESTION THAT HE COULD ANSWER.

YEAH. I MEAN, I JUST FEEL LIKE THERE'S TOO MANY UNKNOWNS WITH THIS AT THIS TIME TO BE COMING BEFORE US AS FAR AS TRAFFIC, OTHER, YOU KNOW PLANS FOR A SORRY, I'M STUTTERING THE TRUCKS AND EVERYTHING, AND MAYBE IT'S JUST BECAUSE I'M PARTIAL TO THIS PIECE OF LAND, AND I DON'T KNOW THAT THIS IS THE BEST USE FOR THIS PIECE OF LAND APPLICATION, SAYS COMMERCIAL STORAGE.

YOU KNOW, IS THAT JUST FOR APPLIANCES? IS IT GOING TO BE FOR OTHER BUSINESSES THAT COME IN AND HAVE STORAGE THERE? I HAVE TOO MANY QUESTIONS PERSONALLY RIGHT NOW ON THIS ITEM.

SO, YEAH, SO ESSENTIALLY WE'RE KIND OF APPROVING A SMALL STRIP MALL THERE.

YEAH, THAT'S AND OBVIOUSLY WE DON'T KNOW WHAT BUSINESSES WOULD BE GOING IN THERE, AND I DON'T THINK THE OWNER KNOWS WHAT BUSINESSES KNOW.

AND IT'S JUST A CONCEPTUAL DRAWING THAT WE SEE WE DON'T HAVE ANY REAL IDEA OF WHAT IT WOULD LOOK LIKE. SO I WOULD LIKE TO SEE MORE WORK DONE ON IT.

AGAIN, THAT'S JUST ME.

I DEFINITELY THINK A MULTI OFFICE BUILDING RATHER THAN, I THINK, STRIP MALL.

I DON'T THINK THAT'S WHAT IT'S A MULTI OFFICE IS DESIRABLE BECAUSE WE HAVE A LOT OF ENTREPRENEURS IN HUTTO THAT ARE LOOKING FOR THAT TRANSITION SPACE OF GOING FROM A SOLOPRENEUR IN THEIR HOME TO I NEED A SPACE TO WORK OUT OF AND I NEED A PLACE FOR MY THINGS THAT I'M EITHER MAKING OR SELLING OR MY SERVICE BEFORE THEY SCALE UP TO LIKE A BIGGER BUSINESS SPACE.

AND THIS COULD PROVIDE THAT HYBRID IN BETWEEN TRANSITION ZONE FOR A LOT OF THE BUSINESSES IF IT'S SET UP AND DESIGNED THE RIGHT WAY AESTHETICALLY WITH THE HISTORIC OVERLAY REQUIREMENTS THAT WE CAN PUT ON IT.

I'M ALSO OKAY WITH RESIDENTIAL APPLIANCES AND BUT THERE HAS TO BE LIMITATIONS THAT WE PUT IN HERE THAT DON'T ALLOW.

AND SO FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE, THAT NEEDS TO GET FIGURED OUT ON THE HOW ARE WE GOING TO LIMIT THE TRUCKS, THE TRAFFIC THAT'S GOING TO GO THROUGH WHAT WE CAN DO AND AND AGAIN, WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO KEEP TRUCKS OFF OF THESE AREAS FOR A VERY LONG TIME AND TO NO AVAIL AND SO THOSE LOGISTICS NEED TO GET FIGURED OUT.

I DO THINK THE CONCEPT COULD BE REALLY COOL REFLECTION OF WHAT WE KIND OF SEE IN OUR CURRENT OLD TOWN AREA OVER HERE, MORE FOR OUR BUSINESS OWNERS TO HAVE BUSINESS SPACES, BUT IT JUST NEEDS TO GET FLESHED OUT A BIT MORE ON THE TRANSPORTATION TRAFFIC.

AND THE SPECIFICATIONS ON LIKE FREQUENCY OF DELIVERIES.

I THINK THOSE WOULD BE SOME GOOD DATA POINTS FOR US TO LOOK AT THAT WE CAN PUT MORE CONCRETELY DOWN TO PRESERVE THE HISTORIC NATURE OF THE ZONE.

YEAH, I THINK THAT THE CLIENT, THE OWNER WOULD BE OPEN TO OFFICES RATHER THAN ALL RETAIL BECAUSE WE'RE NOT LOOKING TO, YOU KNOW, WE'RE LOOKING TO UPGRADE THIS PROPERTY AND PROVIDE A LOT FOR HUTTO.

SO PROVIDING SPACE FOR ENTREPRENEURS HE'D PROBABLY VERY OPEN TO AND I CAN SPEAK WITH HIM ABOUT THAT AS WELL.

[INAUDIBLE]. SO THIS ITEM Y'ALL JUST WANT TO COME BACK WHEN STAFF HAS WORKED IT OUT WITH SOME MORE DETAILS. IS THAT WHAT I'M HEARING? SO COULD I ASK JUST FOR CLARIFICATION.

HOURS OF DELIVERIES, TIMING OF DELIVERIES OR MORE SO NUMBER OF DELIVERIES POTENTIAL AND ALSO INGRESS EGRESS? AND HOW THEY'LL HANDLE DIRECT FOR THE MANUFACTURER DELIVERIES.

OK. DESIGN ELEMENT YOU COULD PUT IN THERE TO PREVENT AN 18 WHEELER FROM EVEN GETTING IN THERE. I THINK WE KIND OF HEARD THAT TOO.

WELL, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO GET IN THERE TO BUILD IT SOMEHOW SO.

THAT'S AN EXCEPTION. [LAUGHTER] I MEAN, YEAH, WELL, I KNOW, I KNOW.

YEAH, I GUESS JUST THE CLARIFICATION TOO, IS HE LOOKING FOR MORE STRIP MALL ESQUE OR MORE OF THIS TRANSITIONAL OFFICE SPACE? BECAUSE AGAIN, THIS IS PRIME PROPERTY.

YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ARE COMING IN AND OUT OF HUTTO.

THIS IS WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE FACING ON THE FRONT STREET.

SO I WANT IT TO LOOK ATTRACTIVE.

SO I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY, I KNOW IT HAS TO GO TO HPC.

SO I'M I'M SURE THOSE ON HPC WILL NOT MAKE THAT AN EASY PROCESS ON HIM.

SO I TRUST THEM ON THAT INSTANCE.

BUT JUST FOR ME, JUST CONCEPTUALLY, I KIND OF WOULD LIKE TO KNOW, IS IT MORE SHOWROOM WITH GLASS WINDOWS? IS IT THE STRIP MALL? IS IT MULTI OFFICE? JUST KIND OF WHAT DOES THAT REALLY LOOK LIKE? SO ARE YOU ASKING FOR MORE OF AN ARCHITECTURAL RENDERING THAT YOU CAN VISUALLY SEE? BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T. HE HASN'T REALLY STARTED WITH THAT PORTION, BUT I GUESS JUST SOMETHING THAT WE CAN PUT IN THERE.

SO THAT WAY I CAN KIND OF KNOW I DON'T NECESSARILY NEED THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS IN DESIGN

[01:45:03]

AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

OK, WOULD DEFINITELY CAUTION COUNCIL ON ASKING FOR THAT ONLY BECAUSE IT HAS TO BE DONE.

THAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE BY ORDINANCE APPROVED THROUGH THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION. SO IF WE APPROVE IT HERE WE ARE TAKING THAT APPROVAL AWAY FROM THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION. YEAH, I DEFINITELY DON'T WANT TO DO THAT.

NO, CERTAINLY WE COULD SAY THIS MANY SPACES, THIS MANY ENTRANCES.

WHAT I'M MORE ENVISIONING IS JUST DOWN THE WAY WHERE A NEW ROOF AND A FEW OF THE OTHER SMALLER BUSINESSES ARE WITH THAT METAL OVERHANG.

TYPICALLY, WHEN WE GO TO HPC, WE WILL SHOW THEM OTHER SUCCESSFUL PROJECTS IN THE SAME AREA AND SAY, THIS IS ONE THAT'S ACTUALLY REALLY GOOD LOOKING IN THIS DOWNTOWN AREA.

HERE'S SOMETHING, AND THAT'S USUALLY WHAT WE DO WITH THE APPLICANTS AS WELL IS HERE'S ONE WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO SUCCESSFULLY GET THROUGH.

HERE'S WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE. HERE'S HOW IT FUNCTIONS.

THIS IS SOLELY JUST IF YOU WERE TO TAKE THAT BUILDING AND ADD A WAREHOUSE ON THE BACK, IT'S TRULY FOR THAT WAREHOUSE USE.

THAT'S THE NON BUY RIGHT USE FOR THE SDA DISTRICT RIGHT NOW.

GOTCHA. YEAH, I DEFINITELY DO WANT TO TAKE AWAY FROM HPC WHATSOEVER, BUT DEFINITELY FOR ME, I WOULD JUST LIKE TO KNOW, IS HE WANTING THAT OFFICE SPACE OR IS IT MORE LIKE A STRIP MALL? SO MAYBE NOT NECESSARILY DESIGN, BUT JUST WHAT HE'S REALLY AIMING FOR? CLARIFICATION. ALL RIGHT, SO I DON'T THINK THERE IS ACTION TO BE HAD, RIGHT? ON OUR PART, I GUESS.

ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU.

THANK YOU. BRINGS US TO ITEM NINE THREE.

[9.3. Consideration of a public hearing and possible action on Ordinance No. O-2022-008 approving a Specific Use Permit for the property known as 3250 Limmer Loop, to allow outdoor recreation facility use (UDC 10.304.6). (Ashley Lumpkin)]

CONSIDERATION OF A PUBLIC HEARING AND POSSIBLE ACTION ON ORDINANCE NUMBER O-2022-008 APPROVING A SPECIFIC USE PERMIT FOR THE PROPERTY KNOWN AS 3250 LIMMER LOOP TO ALLOW OUTDOOR RECREATION FACILITY USE.

UDC 10.304.6.

OK, SO HERE'S THE SITE LOCATION.

YOU MAY NOT KNOW THIS BY THE ADDRESS.

THIS IS ACTUALLY CHRIST THE ROCK CHURCH.

IT'S ON THE NORTH SIDE OF LIMMER, WEST OF 1660.

AND THEN YOU MAY ALSO KNOW IT BECAUSE THIS IS THAT BIG CHURCH JUST BEHIND THOSE BIG OVERHEAD LINES ALONG LIMMER ON THE NORTH SIDE.

THE REQUEST BEFORE YOU TONIGHT IS FOR AN APPLICANT THAT'S WORKING WITH THE CHURCH DIRECTLY TO ESTABLISH AN OUTDOOR RECREATION FACILITY.

IT UTILIZES TWO METAL CONTAINER STRUCTURES FOR THE EQUIPMENT STORAGE.

THERE ARE A FEW PICTURES THAT WE WILL HAVE FOR YOU AND A COVERED WALKWAY WITH AN OUTDOOR SURFACE FOR A WORKOUT AREA.

THIS IS REALLY JUST SOMETHING THAT THEY'LL BRING IN.

THEY'LL HAVE THEIR CLIENTS COME IN, WORK OUT AND THEN LEAVE.

THERE IS AN ESTABLISHED STRUCTURE.

HERE'S WHAT THIS LOOKS LIKE. THIS IS IN THE ROUND ROCK LOCATION, SO IT'S TWO BUILDINGS.

THEY HAVE ROLL UP DOORS, THEY'VE GOT THEIR SOLAR PANELS AND THEN THEY HAVE LIGHTS THAT JUST SHINE DOWN IN FRONT OF THOSE BUILDINGS.

WE DISCUSS IT ACTUALLY AT LENGTH DURING P&Z, SO IT'S NOT SHINING BACK TOWARDSTHE RESIDENTS IT'S ENCLOSED INTO THEIR AREA.

LET'S GO BACK TO ONE.

SO THE CONDITIONS ARE REALLY THAT THE IMPROVEMENTS OR ACTIVITY AREAS MUST BE LOCATED AT LEAST ONE HUNDRED FEET FROM THE BOUNDARY OF ANY RESIDENTIAL ZONING DISTRICT OR LODGING ESTABLISHMENT.

THAT IS HAPPENING EVEN WITH THE RECOMMENDATION TO MOVE IT BEHIND THE FRONT LINE OF THAT CHURCH. AND THERE'S STILL SUFFICIENT ROOM, AND THE EXISTING PARKING LOT IS ABOUT 195 FEET FROM THE CLOSEST RESIDENTIAL FENCE LINE, SO THEY HAVE AMPLE ROOM TO BE ABLE TO MOVE THAT A LITTLE BIT OVER THERE.

AND WE SENT NOTICES TO 82 ADJACENT PROPERTY OWNERS.

WE DID RECEIVE TWO RESPONSES IN OPPOSITION I BELIEVE BOTH WERE IN OR AT LEAST ONE WAS IN PRESENT AT P&Z AND SPOKE NOT ONLY WITH THE APPLICANT, BUT WITH P&Z.

A LOT OF IT WAS REALLY JUST CONCERNS ABOUT LIGHTING, AND IT'S NOT CHANGING THE PARKING LOT LIGHTING THAT ALREADY EXISTS.

AND THERE'S ALSO MECHANISMS WITHIN THE SUP APPROVAL THAT REQUIRE THEM NOT TO HAVE ANY LOUD, BLARING MUSIC TOWARDS THE RESIDENTS, THINGS LIKE THAT.

AND THEN FURTHER TO THAT, P&Z ACTUALLY RECOMMENDED TO LOOK AT THE HOURS FROM 6:00 A.M.

TO 9:00 P.M.

MONDAY THROUGH FRIDAY. LIMIT THOSE HOURS ON SATURDAY FROM 8 TO 12.

AND THEN OBVIOUSLY WITH THE CHURCH SERVICES ON SUNDAY, THERE WOULD BE NO SUNDAY WORKOUTS AND THERE WOULD BE NO PARKING ON THE GRASS.

AGAIN, THEY CANNOT HAVE THE LOUDSPEAKERS OR THE ANYTHING THAT WOULD BE AUDIBLE OFF THE SITE, AND IT HAS TO BE LOCATED BEHIND THAT FRONT BUILDING LINE.

AND YOU CAN SEE HERE IN THIS PICTURE, THIS IS A FRONT BUILDING LINE, SO WE REALLY JUST WANT TO MOVE IT BACK A LITTLE BIT TO BE EQUAL WITH THAT FRONT LINE OF THE CHURCH SO IT DOESN'T SET IN FRONT OF THE CHURCH.

SO WITH THAT, STAFF DOES RECOMMEND APPROVAL, AND P&Z DID AS WELL UNANIMOUSLY.

IF THERE'S NO OBJECTIONS, I'LL OPEN UP THE PUBLIC HEARING FIRST AND THEN OPEN IT UP TO THE CITY COUNCIL FOR COMMENTS.

SO. WE'LL, OPEN UP THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 8:50 P.M.

WAS THERE ANYONE FROM THE PUBLIC THAT WISHES TO SPEAK ON THIS SUP? WE HAVE ONE. GOOD EVENING.

GOOD EVENING, MAYOR AND COUNCIL, MY NAME IS DANA RUSCA, AND I ACTUALLY LIVE 100 ADRIANNA LANE, WHICH IS RIGHT THE HIGHWAY, THE ROAD ACROSS FROM THE CHURCH.

[01:50:05]

I'M EXCITED TO HEAR THAT NICKY AND ANGIE WANT TO OPEN THIS UP.

THE CHILDREN OF HUTTO DO NOT REALLY HAVE A LOT TO DO HERE.

THEY'VE OPENED IT UP, GOING TO OPEN IT UP TO CHILDREN.

MY SON, BEING 13, I DON'T WANT HIM ON SCHOOL PROPERTY UNLESS WE'RE THERE WITH HIM.

HE WANTS TO GO OUT AND PLAY WELL YOU CAN'T LET HIM PLAY IN THE ROAD'S RIGHT TO MAKE SURE HE'S SAFE. THESE CHILDREN NEED A PLACE TO GO AND I BELIEVE NICK AND ANGIE CAN OFFER THAT TO THEM TO HAVE THAT ADDITIONAL EXERCISE ACTIVITY, ESPECIALLY DURING THE SUMMER.

SO I AGREE THAT THEY SHOULD HAVE IT.

THANK YOU MA'AM. THANK YOU. THANK YOU.

IS THERE ANYONE ELSE IN THE PUBLIC? MY NAME IS IDA WEAVER, AND I'M HERE TO TALK TO ENCOURAGE YOU TO APPROVE THIS.

THIS CHURCH HAS A LOT OF OUTREACH.

THEY HAVE A PROGRAM CALLED MOMMY AND ME FOR THE PRESCHOOLERS.

AND THEN THIS WILL OPEN THE OUTREACH TO OLDER CHILDREN.

AND WE ALL KNOW THAT OUR CHILDREN NEED TO BE OUTSIDE AND THEY NEED TO BE AWAY FROM THEIR PHONES, AND THEY NEED TO HAVE SUPERVISED PHYSICAL ACTIVITY WHERE THEY CAN DEVELOP THEIR COORDINATION AND STRENGTH AND SO ON AND ALSO INTERACT WITH OTHER CHILDREN THEIR AGE.

AND THIS IS IMPORTANT.

IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT FOR THE ADULTS.

I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO THE YOGA CLASSES AND OTHER ACTIVITIES THAT ARE GOING TO BE AVAILABLE THERE. SO I DO SUPPORT THIS PROPOSAL.

THANK YOU, MA'AM. ALL RIGHT, ANY OTHER PUBLIC COMMENT? SEEING NONE WE'LL CLOSE THE COMMENT AT 8:52.

IF IT'S OK WITH COUNCIL, WE CAN ASK FOR THE PRESENTATION BY THE APPLICANT.

SEEING NONE IF Y'ALL WANT TO COME UP AND.

GOOD EVENING. THIS IS MY PRESENTATION.

I'M ALL NEW TO THIS, SO MY NAME IS NICK [INAUDIBLE].

MY WIFE AND MY KIDS ARE HERE.

WELL, PAST THEIR BEDTIME.

SO WE CURRENTLY ALREADY RUN ONE IN ROUND ROCK AND IT'S AN OUTDOOR FITNESS FACILITY.

WE DO ALL THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF GROUP CLASSES, A LOT OF KIDS CLASSES WE START AT, LIKE ABOUT FOUR YEARS OLD AND OUR OLDEST IS, I THINK, 78.

SO IT'S VERY MORE PERSONAL TRAINING AND IT'S A VERY SMALL GROUP.

SO IT'S NOT LIKE THERE'S GOING TO BE, YOU KNOW, 100 PEOPLE THERE OR SOMETHING AT A TIME.

OUR LARGEST CLASSES, MAY BE ABOUT 15 PEOPLE RIGHT NOW.

AND YEAH, WE DO MOST OF IT ALL.

IT'S PRETTY MUCH ALL OUTSIDE AND WE JUST WE STORE OUR EQUIPMENT IN THERE AND THEN WE ROLL IT OUT ONTO THE TURF.

IT'S PRETTY MUCH WHAT YOU DO, AND IT'S REALLY LIKE THREE, FOUR HOURS OUT OF THE DAY THAT WE ARE ACTUALLY RUNNING SOMETHING.

SO WE RUN LIKE A 6:00 A.M.

AND 9:00 A.M. AND THEN LIKE A RIGHT AFTER SCHOOL BETWEEN LIKE 3:00 TO LIKE 6:30, 7:00.

WE DO SOME FAMILY STUFF TOO.

A LOT OF FAMILY STUFF, GIRLS EMPOWERMENT STUFF, THINGS LIKE THAT.

SO SPORTS PERFORMANCE, THAT'S KIND OF THE GIST OF IT.

WE DO SOME MARTIAL ARTS AS WELL.

SO ARE THESE CLASSES THAT ARE PAID FOR ENROLLED IN IT'S PRETTY MUCH A MEMBERSHIP BASE.

YEAH, IT'S I MEAN, WE DO LIKE A PUNCH CARD OR A MEMBERSHIP BASED, AND THAT'S HOW THEY PAY FOR IT. WHAT IS THE NAME OF THE BUSINESS, PATRIOT SPORTS AND FITNESS? DIDN'T SEE THAT IN HERE, SO.

AND WOULD YOU ALL UTILIZE THE CHURCH'S PARKING LOT? YES, YES.

ALL OF OUR PARKING WILL BE RIGHT THERE.

IN FACT, IT WOULD PROBABLY GO A LITTLE BIT MORE.

JUST BEING KIND WHEN HE APPROACHED US AND HE TALKED ABOUT IT.

ONE OF THE THINGS HE SAID IS WE DON'T HAVE TO USE YOUR BUILDING.

WE'LL PUT A PORTA JOHN OUT THERE.

IT'LL BE FINE. AND LIKE, IF YOU GUYS HAVE DRIVEN BY OUR BUILDING, WE WORKED REALLY HARD TO FIT INTO THE COMMUNITY.

LAST THING I WANT IS A PORTA JOHN ON MY PROPERTY.

I SAID, WE'LL GIVE YOU A KEY TO LET ALL YOUR PEOPLE BE IN OUR BUILDING, RIGHT? IF YOU NEED TO DO THAT BECAUSE WE WANT TO LIKE OUR WHOLE THING AS A CHURCH, WE WANT TO PARTNER WITH THE COMMUNITY.

THEY'LL USE OUR PARKING, SO THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE ANY ISSUES WITH THAT.

ONE OF THE THINGS HIM AND TRACY HAVE JUST BEEN FABULOUS ABOUT IS WE'VE ALREADY STARTED.

IF WE CAN GET THROUGH THIS RIGHT, WE WOULD LIKE TO OFFER A CAMP IN THE SUMMER.

WE'VE GOT A CHURCH WE PARTNER WITH ACTUALLY UP NORTH WE'LL SEND SOME VOLUNTEERS LOOK AT AGE GROUPS. WE OFFER THIS FOR A WEEK IN THE SUMMER TO START SEE WHAT WE'VE GOT.

I TALKED TO NICK, HE SAID, HEY, WE'VE DONE THIS.

I SEE A LOT OF KIDS JUST GOING BACK AND FORTH FROM SCHOOL.

[01:55:02]

DANA TALKED ABOUT HER SON, TOO.

WE GOT NOTHING ON THAT SIDE LIKE WHERE WE ARE.

THERE'S NOTHING OVER THERE.

WE JUST SEE A LOT OF KIDS AND WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO REACH, RIGHT? AND NICK, AND HIS FAMILY ARE GREAT.

THE FACILITY IS COOL.

THEY WILL TAKE AN MATCH PAINT AND ALL OF THAT WITH OUR BUILDING BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT LIKE WE TAKE A LOT OF PRIDE IN BEING ABLE TO FIT IN THE COMMUNITY WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE.

SO WE'RE NOT GOING TO PUT SOMETHING UP THAT LOOKS BAD.

THAT'S NOT HOW THEY DEAL WITH THINGS, EITHER.

SO. ASHLEY, WHAT'S THE ZONING ON THIS PART OF THE PROPERTY? YEAH, B2? CAN YOU HAVE A BUSINESS ARE ABLE TO LOCATE ANYWHERE.

IT'S REALLY JUST THE OUTDOOR COMPONENT.

OK, THERE WE GO.

IT'S JUST THE GENERAL COMMERCIAL.

DO YOU.

AND THE PATRIOT SPORTS AND BUSINESS FITNESS WILL OPERATE SEPARATELY FROM CHRIST THE ROCK, SO THEY'RE THEIR OWN BUSINESS ENTITY, CORRECT? AND SO WHEN YOU SAY THE KIDS THAT HAVE NOWHERE TO GO, THOSE KIDS GET TO GO HANG OUT AFTER SCHOOL FOR FREE OR DO THEY HAVE TO PAY TO HANG OUT THERE? WELL, THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS WE DO.

I MEAN, WHEN WE DO A LOT OF CHARITY WORK AS WELL, WHICH WE WILL PARTNER WITH THE CHURCH ON THAT. WE DO THAT CURRENTLY IN ROUND ROCK.

WE HAVE A FEW DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS THAT WE WORK WITH CURRENTLY.

BUT YES, IT IS A BUSINESS, BUT WE WILL BE DOING A LOT OF CHARITABLE STUFF, TOO.

WE REALLY DON'T TURN ANYBODY AWAY IF YOU WANT TO ASK.

SO.

LIKE THE PARKING LOT TO KEEP THIS KIDS FROM LIKE WANDERING OFF INTO THE STREET OR SOMETHING? IS IT ALREADY A PROTECTED SPACE? WELL, NO. I MEAN, IT'S WE'RE FROM THE STREET.

IT'LL BE LIKE A COUPLE OF HUNDRED YARDS.

I MEAN, WHAT'S THAT ONE HUNDRED AND MAYBE 100 YARDS TO THE STREET? IT'S GOT TO BE. YEAH.

SO. AND WE'RE NOT GOING TO THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE RIGHT ON THE STREET AND THEY'RE NOT LIKE, WE'RE NOT DOING LIKE, YOU KNOW, TWO YEAR OLD'S OR THEY CAN IF THEY'RE STILL, YOU KNOW, WETTING THE BED, I DON'T KNOW OR THEIR PANTS.

[LAUGHTER] CAN I ADD SOMETHING TO YOUR I WAS A LITTLE NERVOUS.

I DON'T KNOW WHY SHE DIDN'T COME UP TO BEGIN WITH.

HI, GUYS. HELLO, I'M TRACY.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I HEARD FROM THAT TIME SITTING HERE, JUST KIND OF SOME THINGS WENT OVER MY HEAD. BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I KIND OF FELT FROM THE COUNCIL WAS HUTTO AN THE PASSION THAT COMES THROUGH THAT.

SO FITNESS IS WHAT WE DO, BUT COMMUNITY IS WHAT WE CREATE.

AND SO MY HUSBAND'S GOOD AT A LOT OF THINGS.

BUT WHEN HE SAYS WE DO CHARITY WORK, I CAN MAKE THAT A LITTLE BIT MORE EXCITING.

SO WHEN HE SAYS WE DO CHARITY WORK, I'M REALLY PASSIONATE ABOUT.

I DO A GIRLS PROGRAM.

IT'S AN EMPOWERMENT PROGRAM, SO THEY'RE ON ELECTRONICS TONIGHT.

NO JUDGMENT, BUT I HAVE A TWEEN DAUGHTER AND THEN WE HAVE A SON, NICHOLAS.

AND SO WE MOVED HERE LAST YEAR.

WE'RE IN ROUND ROCK CURRENTLY, BUT WE MOVED.

YEAH, OH, TWO YEARS AS OF APRIL.

BUT ONE OF THE THINGS WE'VE BEEN DOING THIS A LONG TIME.

AND SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT COVID KIND OF WAS A BLESSING TO US WAS JUST KIND OF HELP THAT WE DO REALLY WELL AND ANYBODY CAN DO FITNESS.

ANYBODY CAN COME UP HERE AND SAY, I WANT TO OPEN A SPACE AND A GYM AND SHIPPING CONTAINERS, AND SOME OF YOU MIGHT GET REALLY WIDE EYED.

BUT WHAT WE DO DIFFERENT, WHAT MAKES US UNIQUE IS THAT IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT OVERALL FITNESS OF A SINGLE PERSON.

WE DO FAMILY FITNESS.

WE'RE IN IT AS A FAMILY.

I DON'T KNOW WHY. I ALWAYS GET EMOTIONAL WITH THINGS LIKE THIS.

MAYBE BECAUSE YOU'RE ALL LOOKING AT ME RIGHT NOW AND IT'S MAKING ME FEEL A LITTLE UNCOMFORTABLE. BUT I'M VERY COMFORTABLE IN THIS SPACE BECAUSE COMMUNITY IS WHAT WE CREATE. SO YOU'RE ASKING ABOUT EVENTS AND WHAT WE DO.

SO WE'RE NEW TO HOMESCHOOLING, SO I DO COMMUNITY INCENTIVES.

SO I ALSO RUN A LOT OF THE CLASSES.

BUT MY PASSION IS IN EMPOWERING THE COMMUNITY TO WANT TO COME AND MOVE TOGETHER, NOT JUST AS A DAD OR A MOTHER TELLING THEIR KID, YOU NEED, YOU'RE TEN YEARS OLD AND YOU NEED TO GO WORK OUT AND EXERCISE AND MOVE YOUR BODY, BUT IT STARTS AT THE TOP OF THE PYRAMID.

SO WITH OUR HOME SCHOOLING THAT WE'VE DONE RECENTLY AS I, RUN AND I HAD A COMMUNITY FUN RUN. BUT MOM AND DAD, A PARENT OR GUARDIAN, HAS TO RUN WITH US.

SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE'VE REALLY GOTTEN.

WE'VE BEEN DOING THIS 13 YEARS, BUT OVER THE PAST TWO YEARS, AND NOW THAT OUR KIDS ARE GROWING AN THE EFFECTS THAT WE'VE SEEN THAT DANA HAS TOUCHED ON WITH HER 13 YEAR OLD AND WHAT ARE THEY DOING? WHERE ARE THEY GOING? NOW, MORE THAN EVER, MENTAL HEALTH EQUALS PHYSICAL HEALTH.

AND SO IT'S A FULL CIRCLE HERE, AND I JUST CAN'T WAIT TO GET A HUTTO HIPPO AND PUT THAT SORRY. NOT THAT.

SERIOUSLY.

NO YOU'RE GOOD. YOU KNOW WHAT I WOULD SAY TOO, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, A LOT OF YOU WHO SIT HERE

[02:00:05]

ON THE DAIS, YOU KNOW ME, YOU KNOW, WE WANT TO BE IN THE COMMUNITY.

IT'S A PIECE WE'RE LACKING.

SO I WOULDN'T LIKE WE WOULD NOT, AS A CHURCH, PUT OUR NAME BEHIND THIS IF THEY DIDN'T ALIGN. AND YOU KNOW, WHEN WE START TO TALK COMMUNITY EVENTS, YOU KNOW, ONCE A MONTH, THINGS LIKE THAT. NOW THAT DOESN'T MEAN IF IT WOULD GET APPROVED TONIGHT THAT, HEY, IN APRIL, WE'RE STARTING THAT BECAUSE WE'VE GOT TO PLAN THAT OUT.

FIGURE OUT WHAT'S IT GOING TO LOOK LIKE? BUT WE WANT OUR BUILDING.

THEY WANT THEIR OUTDOOR FACILITY THING TO BE YOURS AS WELL.

I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT WE WANT.

WE WANT PEOPLE IN AND AROUND.

SO.

IS THE ONE IN ROUND ROCK, IS THAT BY BRUSHY CREEK ELEMENTARY? THAT'S ACROSS THE STREET? OKAY. YEAH. YES.

I'M VERY FAMILIAR WITH THAT AREA AND IT IS ALWAYS PACKED.

IT'S RIGHT BETWEEN BRUSHY CREEK ELEMENTARY AND THERE'S A CHURCH THERE AS WELL.

CORRECT? I DON'T. YEAH, OH, OK. SO WE HAVE A REALLY GOOD RELATIONSHIP.

THEY TARGET CHURCHES.

NO.

[LAUGHTER]. I WILL SAY THAT IS USUALLY A VERY, VERY BUSY AREA, ESPECIALLY AFTER SCHOOL.

SO THAT'S AWESOME.

I THINK THEY'VE HAD A LOT OF SUCCESS, IF THAT'S YOU'RE SAYING IT'S THE SAME.

SO IT SEEMS TO BE VERY, VERY SUCCESSFUL FOR THAT COMMUNITY THERE.

AND YET EVERY MONTH WE DO A COMMUNITY INCENTIVE.

SO WHETHER YOU'RE A MEMBER OR NOT, LIKE RIGHT NOW, THE INCENTIVE IS BINGO.

SO AGAIN, IT STARTS. IT'S WE HAVE A MAILBOX THAT YOU COME.

MIC. OH, SORRY, I'M VERY UNCOMFORTABLE IN FRONT OF THE MICROPHONE, BUT NO WE HAVE A MAILBOX THAT WE TRY AND GET OUR COMMUNITY TO OPEN THE MAILBOX AND THEN THEY CAN TAKE THE CHALLENGE. AND SO IT'S ABOUT JUST INTENTIONAL MOVEMENT 20 MINUTES A DAY OR IF YOU WANT TO OR NOT, WHICH WOULD ALSO PROBABLY FIT FOR THE VERY ACTIVE 55 AND PLUS COMMUNITY AS WELL, TOO. SORRY, I WAS TRYING TO KEEP IT LIGHT.

[LAUGHTER]. BUT NO, SO WE'RE ALWAYS DOING THINGS LIKE THAT.

SO I KNOW I COME OFF AND I AND I SOUND LIKE MAYBE I'M NOT TAKING IT SERIOUSLY.

AND SO WE LOVE WHAT WE DO.

WE'VE BEEN DOING IT A REALLY LONG TIME, AND I PROMISE IF YOU GIVE US AN OPPORTUNITY TO SERVE YOUR COMMUNITY, YOU'LL FIND THAT WE CAN CREATE A REALLY STRONG COMMUNITY WITHIN PARTNERING WITH THE CHURCH AND JUST GETTING TO KNOW YOU GUYS ON A LEVEL OUTSIDE OF THIS.

THANK YOU. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? THE ONLY COMMENT I HAVE, I GUESS, IS JUST THAT REALLY THE CONCERNS FROM THE CITIZENS WAS MORE ABOUT THE NOISE AND THE POSSIBLE KIND OF LIGHT POLLUTION, AND IT SEEMS LIKE BOTH OF THOSE ARE. YEAH.

WHERE THE BUILDING IS SET.

HOW FAR AWAY THE PERIMETERS. OUR MUSIC ANY TIME WE DO PLAY MUSIC WOULD PROJECT TOWARDS THE STREET. AND IF ANY NEIGHBOR CAME OVER AND SAID I COULD HEAR IT, WE WOULD TURN IT DOWN. AND WE REALLY DON'T PLAY IT THAT LOUD BECAUSE THE KIDS GOT TO HEAR US, YOU KNOW, OR SO IT'S REALLY NOT THAT LOUD.

I MEAN, IF YOU WALK ON THE OTHER SIDE OF LIKE THE MOBILE GYM THAT WILL BE THERE, YOU COULD BARELY EVEN HEAR IT.

SO TWENTY FIVE 50 YARDS AWAY, LIKE THERE'S NO WAY YOU'RE HEARING IT WHERE THE HOUSES ARE, IT'S. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT SHOCKED THAT THE OTHER CITIZENS IN THE AREA, THAT.

THE MUSIC WILL ACTUALLY BE POINTED RIGHT AT DANA'S HOUSE TO GET HER SON TO COME OUT.

IT'S KIND OF.

I JUST DON'T WANT DANA'S NEIGHBORS TO THEN BE VERY UPSET WITH DANA.

[LAUGHTER] SO THAT'S WHY I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT ALL OF THOSE OTHER ISSUES ARE KIND OF A NON HOPEFULLY NON ISSUE.

OK. SO FOR ME, [INAUDIBLE] TALKED WHAT PROBABLY FOUR OR FIVE MONTHS, MAYBE EVEN LONGER.

LONGER. YEAH, ABOUT THIS.

TO ME, THIS CHECKS OFF A LOT OF BOXES THAT PEOPLE IN HUTTO TALK ABOUT.

A LOT OF PEOPLE WANT KIND OF AN AUSTIN FEEL TYPE TO THINGS WITHOUT A LOT OF THE AUSTIN PROBLEMS. SO THEY LIKE FOOD TRUCKS, THEY LIKE CONTAINER TYPE THINGS.

THEY LIKE ITEMS LIKE THIS TO ME, AND YOU'RE DOING THIS IN AN AREA THAT CAN'T BE DEVELOPED FOR SOMETHING ELSE.

AND SO IT BEING PART OF THE COMMUNITY AND ALL THAT, THAT'S REALLY WHAT I FIND A LOT OF PEOPLE I TALKED TO. THIS IS KIND OF WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING FOR, SOMETHING THAT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT.

BUT LIKE YOU GUYS SAID, TO DO SOMETHING ON THE WEEKENDS, EVENINGS, FAMILY TYPE ACTIVITIES. AND IF YOU WANT TO, YOU KNOW, CHECK OUT CHRIST THE ROCK, USE THE RESTROOM, THEY ALWAYS WANT TO OPEN UP THEIR FACILITIES FOR THE COMMUNITY.

SO FOR ME, YOU GUYS ARE BRINGING A NEED AND SOMETHING THAT I HAVEN'T HEARD ONE PERSON EVER SAY THAT THEY DON'T WANT THIS NOT JUST THE USE, BUT THE WAY THAT YOU'RE DOING IT, I THINK, IS THE CREATIVE PART THAT PEOPLE ARE INTERESTED IN.

IN HUTTO, THEY DON'T REALLY LIKE A LOT OF NEW BUILDINGS BUILT FOR THINGS THAT.

BECAUSE IF YOU GUYS BUILT A BUILDING, WE WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO AFFORD TO GO THERE, PROBABLY BECAUSE IT'D BE SO HIGH.

SO I APPRECIATE WHAT YOU GUYS ARE BRINGING.

THANK YOU. I DID HAVE ONE CLARIFYING QUESTION, SO WE SAW 6:00 A.M.

TO 9:00. BUT THEN HERE ON THE SCREEN, ON THE BOTTOM, WE'RE READING NINE A.M.

TO NINE P.M. AT THE LAST, I'LL SAY SORRY, I CAN CLARIFY THIS IS ACTUALLY WHAT'S JUST IN MOST ESTABLISHMENTS.

THIS WAS ACTUALLY WHAT WAS IN THE RECOMMENDATION IS WHAT P&Z RECOMMENDED.

[02:05:02]

WITH. THAT'S STILL WHAT WE HAVE IN THAT ORDINANCE IS TYPICAL.

BUT AFTER TALKING TO THE APPLICANTS AT P&Z, THAT'S THE RECOMMENDATION THAT THEY MADE TO ACCOMMODATE FOR SOME OF THEIR OTHER CLASSES THAT THEY CAN HOLD.

AND THEN YOU GUYS DON'T WANT TO DO SUNDAYS EITHER OR WAS THAT MORE AT REQUEST SPEAKERS]? SUNDAY SERVICE.

GOD'S DAY? THERE'S A DIFFERENT MUSCLE THERE WORKING ON SUNDAYS, RIGHT? IF THEY REALLY MISBEHAVE IN CHURCH, THEY MEET NICK AND TRACY IN THE PARKING LOT AFTERWARD. NO, JUST JUST KIDDING.

[LAUGHTER] OK, SO WE'RE REALLY LOOKING TO APPROVE FROM 6:00 A.M.

TO 9:00. CORRECT. JUST WITH THESE CONDITIONS THAT ARE SHOWN ON THIS SCREEN.

OK, THANK YOU.

WELL, IF THERE'S NO OTHER QUESTIONS.

A MOTION WOULD BE IN ORDER.

I MOVE TO APPROVE 9.3 AS PRESENTED.

SECOND.

I'M SORRY, WHO HAD THE SECOND.

I DID. OK.

A MOTION BY COUNCIL MEMBER VILLARREAL SALVO, SECONDED BY COUNCIL MEMBER HOLLAND.

AND I JUST WOULD LIKE TO CLARIFY, IS IT AS PRESENTED OR AS PRESENTED WITH THE STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS FROM P&Z? YEAH, I WAS GOING TO ASK TO MAKE THAT CLARIFICATION.

ARE YOU OK WITH THAT COUNCIL MEMBER HOLLAND? SURE. OK, SO THE MOTION IS 9.3 IS PRESENTED WITH THE PROPOSED STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS.

ANY DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION HEARING, NONE.

PLEASE CALL THE VOTE.

COUNCIL MEMBER VILLARREAL SALVO.

AYE. MAYOR PRO TEM THORNTON.

AYE. COUNCIL MEMBER GORDON.

AYE. COUNCIL MEMBER HOLLAND.

AYE. COUNCIL MEMBER SUTTON.

AYE. COUNCIL MEMBER KINSEY.

AYE.

MAYOR SNYDER.

AYE. MOTION PASSES SEVEN ZERO.

YES, THANK YOU. EXCITING TIMES.

YEAH. ALL RIGHT.

NEXT, WE GO TO ITEM 9.4.

[9.4. Consideration of a public hearing and possible action on Ordinance No. O-2022-009 approving a Specific Use Permit for the property known as Hippo Café, 109 East Front Street, to allow a drive-thru window and approach. (Ashley Lumpkin)]

WEARING ASHLEY OUT TONIGHT.

CONSIDERATION OF A PUBLIC HEARING AND POSSIBLE ACTION ON ORDINANCE NUMBER O-2022-009 APPROVING A SPECIFIC USE PERMIT FOR THE PROPERTY KNOWN AS HIPPO CAFE 109 EAST FRONT STREET TO ALLOW A DRIVE THRU WINDOW AND APPROACH.

OK, SO THIS IS ANOTHER SPECIFIC USE PERMIT, EVERYBODY KNOWS HIPPO CAFÉ.

THEY DO HAVE A SMALL SPACE ON THEIR SITE TO ALLOW FOR A SMALL DRIVE THRU SO THAT YOU CAN CALL IN YOUR ORDER AND PICK IT UP.

BUT AGAIN, IN THAT SDA OT DISTRICT THAT WE HAVE THE OLD TOWN DISTRICT, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A SPECIFIC USE PERMIT FOR A DRIVE THRU.

SO THEY HAVE SUBMITTED THIS.

YOU CAN SEE ON HERE.

IT'S THIS PIECE RIGHT HERE ON THE SIDE OF THE BUILDING.

SO THEY ARE PROPOSING TO ADD THAT DRIVE THRU AN A MENU BOARD ON THE EAST SIDE OF THE BUILDING. AND THE MENU BOARD IS LOCATED ABOUT 60 FEET FROM THE PROPOSED WINDOW AND ABOUT 80 FEET FROM FRONT STREET.

THEY WILL BE ADDING ASPHALT PAVEMENT, WHERE THERE'S CURRENTLY A GRAVEL DRIVE, AND THE DRIVEWAY WILL BE ABOUT 17 ISH FEET WIDE FOR THAT DRIVE THRU.

SO YOU CAN SEE HERE WE NOTICED EVERYONE MOST THERE WAS ONE OPPOSED BECAUSE THEY WERE WORRIED ABOUT THE TRAFFIC.

EVERYBODY ELSE WAS IN FAVOR, ALTHOUGH WE ONLY GOT BACK FIVE RESPONSES OUT OF EVERYBODY THAT WE NOTICED. BUT STILL, THE PROPOSED DRIVE THRU AND THE WINDOW LOCATION MEETS THE MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS OF THE UDC AND STAFF RECOMMENDED APPROVAL AS REQUESTED AND P&Z DID AS WELL FOR THIS ONE.

SO ASHLEY, PEOPLE WOULD COME IN ON AUSTIN TO GET TO THE DRIVE THRU LINE AND THEN EXIT FRONT STREET.

SO YOU CAN, IT'S NOT REALLY SHOWN ON HERE, BUT YEAH, IF YOU'VE BEEN OVER THERE, YOU CAN KIND OF COME BACK AND AROUND AS WELL, NOT JUST THROUGH TO AUSTIN.

THERE'S EXTRA PARKING BACK IN HERE.

ONCE WE GET INTO THE SITE PLAN, I THINK WE'RE GOING TO KNOW A LITTLE BIT MORE.

THIS IS JUST THEIR CONCEPT OF WHERE THEY WERE GOING TO BE.

CERTAINLY, THIS IS CONCEPTUAL ONLY THEY DO NOT HAVE TO GO TO HPC BECAUSE IT'S NOT A NEW STRUCTURE, SO IT'LL JUST BE A STAFF REVIEW.

BUT WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT'S AS SAFE AS POSSIBLE AND THAT WE GET THAT GOOD INGRESS EGRESS GOING.

RIGHT. CERTAINLY, IT'S NOT GOING TO HAVE THE SAME PROBABLY TRAFFIC AS PERHAPS THE DUTCH BROTHERS OR STARBUCKS.

BUT WE CERTAINLY WANT TO BE COGNIZANT, AS DO THE OWNERS OF HOW THEY'RE GOING TO MANEUVER THROUGH THE SITE. I DON'T KNOW THAT HIPPO BREAKFAST IS DELICIOUS.

ON THE SUP THEY DIDN'T, NOT ALL THE REQUIRED FOR SUBMITTAL BOXES WERE CHECKED.

SO ON SOME OF THOSE, IT'S NOT ACTUALLY.

SOMETIMES WE NEED A LOT MORE INFORMATION, DEPENDING ON THE USE.

SOMETIMES WE NEED A FEW MORE.

AND IT JUST BECAUSE IT'S ON THE APPLICATION DOESN'T MEAN WE DON'T HAVE IT.

IT'S THAT WE DON'T GO BACK AND MODIFY THEIR APPLICATION WHEN THEY'VE SUBMITTED.

WE CAN STILL MAKE COMMENTS, GET ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ON IT.

IF THERE'S NO OBJECTIONS. I'D LIKE TO OPEN UP TO A PUBLIC HEARING FIRST.

OH YES. LISTEN TO THE PUBLIC AND THEN OPEN UP THE COUNCIL.

SO WE'LL OPEN UP THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 9:10 P.M.

IS THERE ANYONE FROM THE PUBLIC THAT WISHES TO SPEAK ON THE DRIVE THRU SUP USE.

[02:10:11]

THIS IS IDA WEAVER, JAMES AND I SPEND A LOT OF TIME OVER THERE AT THE CAFE.

RIGHT NOW.

YOU KNOW, THEIR DINING ROOM IS KIND OF SMALL.

IT'S NOT THAT BIG AT ALL.

AND THEY HAVE, BUT THEY HAVE A LOT OF TAKEOUT BUSINESS AND SOMETIMES IT CREATES A KIND OF A TRAFFIC JAM IN FRONT OF THE STORE THE CAFE? AND ALSO THERE'S ONLY ONE DOOR HERE COMING IN AND OUT.

SO WHEN YOU HAVE PEOPLE LINED UP TO GET THEIR FOOD, THEN OTHER PEOPLE HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, SQUEEZE BY TO GO GET SEATED AT THE RESTAURANT.

SO THIS WILL REALLY HELP THE TRAFFIC SITUATION THERE AROUND NOT ONLY FOOT TRAFFIC, BUT ALSO CAR TRAFFIC.

IT'S AMAZING HOW MANY PEOPLE TAKE OUT AT THAT PLACE, SO I'M REALLY HAPPY THAT THEY'RE GETTING A DRIVE THRU. I HOPE THAT THEY CAN GET THE DRIVE THRU APPROVED.

THANK YOU, MA'AM. GOOD EVENING, MY NAME IS EDITH.

SO WHAT WE ENDED UP TALKING TO FIRE MARSHAL ERIC WOODS AND WE ACTUALLY ANOTHER ONE OF THE CHANGES THAT WE MADE WAS THAT THE FIRE LANE WAS MOVED.

IT WAS MOVED TO THE OPPOSITE AND Y'ALL CAN SEE IT LIKE RIGHT THERE WHERE IT SAYS IN THE BOTTOM, THE FIRE LANE.

I KNOW THAT WAS ONE OF THE ISSUES PREVIOUSLY THAT WE WERE NOT AWARE OF, SO WE DID TALK TO HIM AND WE WENT AHEAD AND MADE THOSE CHANGES.

ALSO, THE REASON SHE WAS SAYING, YOU KNOW, THERE IS A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THERE TRYING TO GET PICK UP FOOD, SO THEY WANTED TO MAKE IT MORE ACCESSIBLE, EASIER FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE JUST DINING IN AND PEOPLE WHO WERE JUST PICKING UP.

SO HIPPO IS LISTENING TO THEIR CLIENTS AND TRYING TO MAKE IT EASIER AND SAFER AS WELL.

AND ALSO, WE ARE I KNOW THE OWNERS ARE TALKING ABOUT PUTTING A PERMIT IN THAT BLANK AREA, BUT IT'S STILL NOT AGREED UPON, SO I WOULD NOT HAVE ANY INFORMATION ON THAT.

BUT LIKE SHE DID MENTION, THERE IS ACCESS TO GO AROUND WITHIN THE PROPERTY, SO THERE IS A IT CAN GO EITHER WAY.

ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, MA'AM.

I WILL OPEN IT UP FOR DISCUSSION WITH THE COUNCIL.

YEAH, I WAS JUST GOING TO MENTION THAT I IMAGINE IT WILL MAKE THINGS A LOT EASIER BECAUSE I KNOW WE LIKE TO PICK UP FOOD THERE, BUT IT'S YOU'RE ON TOP OF PEOPLE TRYING TO GET A TABLE AND PEOPLE TRYING TO PICK UP.

SO I THINK IT'S A GREAT ADDITION TO BE ABLE.

I THINK IT WILL MINIMIZE TRAFFIC JUST LIKE MS. WEAVER SAID. BECAUSE THERE ARE SO MANY CARS THERE TRYING TO PICK UP AN SO MANY CARS TRYING TO GET INTO PARK. SO I THINK IT'S A GREAT IDEA.

SORRY, DID YOU STATE THAT THE PUBLIC HEARING WAS CLOSED? I DON'T KNOW IF YOU ACTUALLY DID THAT.

NO I HAVEN'T DONE IT GREAT CATCH.

WE'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 9:14.

THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN BAD. YEAH, I THINK I HAD MORE OF A PROCESS QUESTION, MAYBE FOR ASHLEY, I KNOW IT DOESN'T HAVE TO GO BACK TO HPC, BUT IS THERE ANY WAY WE CAN ASK FOR IT TO GO TO HPC? FOR? I JUST KIND OF WANT THERE.

I CAN CERTAINLY FLOAT IT TO THE BOARD JUST AS INFO, THAT'S TYPICALLY WHAT WE DO.

IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T NEED HPC APPROVAL, BUT IT'S STILL IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICTS. I DO AT LEAST LIKE TO INCLUDE THE BOARD TO SAY, HEY, THIS IS HAPPENING AND FOR THE MOST PART, THEN ALSO TO LET THEM KNOW, AND THIS IS WHY YOU DIDN'T VOTE ON IT.

SO THEY DON'T FEEL LIKE WE'RE KEEPING INFORMATION FROM THEM, BUT THEN SHOW THEM THE CODE CITATIONS OF THIS ISN'T TRULY A NEW STRUCTURE.

WE'RE SIMPLY MOVING. THIS WAS, AS SHE MENTIONED, THIS WAS THE ORIGINAL FIRE LINE THAT WAS GRAVEL. SO WHEN WE TALKED TO THE FIRE MARSHAL, HE'S LIKE, HEY, THAT DOESN'T ACTUALLY MEET OUR FIRE CODE EITHER.

SO WE'VE SWAPPED IT.

IT'S NOW A SAFER SITUATION.

THEY'RE GOING TO ASPHALT THE DRIVEWAY AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

SO WE USUALLY JUST TELL HPC THIS IS A CHANGE YOU'LL SEE JUST BECAUSE WE LIKE TO STILL KEEP THEM INVOLVED, EVEN IF IT'S NOT THEIR DECISION.

OK. YEAH, BUT CERTAINLY WE CAN.

I'LL ALWAYS TELL HIM, OK, OK.

OTHER COMMENTS.

SO, YEAH, I KNOW, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PEOPLE ENJOY THE FOOD FROM HIPPO CAFE ITSELF.

AND THEN YOU GUYS HAVE BEEN VERY AGGRESSIVE AND VERY FORWARD IN JUMPING ON THE GHOST KITCHEN TREND AND HAVING MULTIPLE GHOST KITCHENS OPERATING OUT OF THERE, WHICH IS ALL EXCLUSIVELY PEOPLE PICKING UP ORDERS.

AND I KNOW WHEN YOU'RE BUSY, IT'S HARD TO PARK THERE.

THERE HAVE BEEN TIMES I WENT AND LEFT BECAUSE I WAS WAITING FOR A PARKING SPOT AND DECIDED TO GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.

[02:15:01]

SO WITH THAT, ADDITIONAL TRAFFIC OF PEOPLE PICKING UP, IT MAKES IT VERY DIFFICULT TO PARK THERE AT TIMES. SO I CAN UNDERSTAND THE DESIRE FOR THIS THE NEED FOR THIS.

I'M CONCERNED ABOUT WHERE THE TRAFFIC IS GOING TO BE ROUTED AND ARE WE GOING TO HAVE A LOT OF TRAFFIC ON AUSTIN AVENUE OR ARE WE GOING TO TRY TO PLAN THIS TO ROUTE THE TRAFFIC THROUGH THE EXISTING PARKING LOT? WHAT'S THE PRIMARY PATH FOR THAT DRIVE THRU TRAFFIC GOING TO BE? SO RIGHT NOW, THEY COULD ACCESS THAT THROUGH AUSTIN JUST BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE THE FIRE LANE WAS. BUT AS YOU KNOW, THERE'S ALSO SOME GRAVEL PARKING BACK THERE.

SO WE REALLY NEED TO TAKE A LOOK AT HOW IS IT GOING TO FUNCTION? WE CERTAINLY WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE DRIVEWAYS ARE NOT TOO CLOSE.

AND THEN THIS IS NEARBY, ANOTHER BUSINESS.

WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WHEREVER WE END UP PUTTING THE DRIVEWAY THAT IT FUNCTIONS AND THEN KEEP IN MIND, THEY ALSO HAVE THEIR OTHER DRIVEWAY.

SO IF WE COULD KIND OF COMBINE THOSE, I THINK THAT'S THE ROUTE THAT WE WOULD PREFER.

THAT'S THE ROUTE THAT THE UDC WOULD ALSO ALMOST REQUIRE AS WELL.

JUST WITH THAT DRIVEWAY SPACING, YOU REALLY SHOULDN'T HAVE TWO WITHIN A 200 FOOT OR LESS DISTANCE. POINT OF INFORMATION, DAN, WHAT IS A GHOST KITCHEN? I DON'T KNOW. SO THERE ARE RESTAURANTS THAT I MEAN, THEY SUPPLY FOOD, THEY GIVE YOU A RESTAURANT NAME AND A BRAND.

AND SO THERE ARE A NUMBER OF WING PLACES IN HUTTO.

IF YOU GO ON DOORDASH AND UBER EATS, YOU'LL FIND A NUMBER OF WING PLACES THAT YOU'VE NEVER SEEN THE BUSINESS.

AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE ADDRESS, YOU'LL FIND IT'S AN EXISTING RESTAURANT AND THEY'RE OPERATING MULTIPLE VIRTUAL RESTAURANTS OUT OF ONE RESTAURANT'S KITCHEN.

I DID NOT KNOW THAT. I MEAN, I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT BECAUSE I'VE SEEN THAT.

YEAH. BUT I DIDN'T KNOW THAT'S WHAT IT WAS CALLED.

INTERESTING. OK, SO THE MAYOR PRO TEM KIND OF TOUCHED ON A CONCERN I HAVE.

I UNDERSTAND THE IMPORTANCE OF GOING TO DRIVE THRU BECAUSE THE MARKET, WHILE WE WANT MORE SIT DOWN RESTAURANTS THE MARKET, IS REALLY PUSHING FOR TAKEOUT AND DRIVE THRU.

SO I GET THAT, BUT THERE'S NOT A DRIVE THRU IN HUTTO THAT DOESN'T HAVE A LINE THAT ALMOST COMES OUT TO THE STREET AND THAT GOES LIKE RIO WHEN IT IS A LITTLE BIT OF A RAIN, RIO STRETCHES ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE PARKING LOT.

AND SO WHEN I'M LOOKING AT THIS, I'M GOING I'VE BEEN THERE BEFORE AND NOT BEEN ABLE TO GET A PARKING SPOT IN THE MORNING, AND SO IF THE LINE BACKS UP THROUGH THESE ARE NARROW DRIVE AISLES, IF IT BACKS UP THROUGH THERE, I DON'T SEE HOW PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO BACK OUT AND GET IN AND THEN IF IT BACKS OUT TO AUSTIN AVENUE AND THERE'S LET'S SAY IT'S MOTHER'S DAY AND MORNING AND PEOPLE ARE GETTING TAKEOUT AND THERE'S 15 PEOPLE TRYING TO GET IT IN LINE.

I'M CONCERNED IN THIS INSTANCE IT'S ALMOST TOO SMALL OF A LOT TO UNFORTUNATELY PUT WHAT WOULD BE IN MY MIND A MUCH NEEDED DRIVE THRU BECAUSE I COULD JUST SEE, LIKE TRAFFIC BACKED UP EVERYWHERE AND IT'S LIKE A TRAFFIC JAM TRYING TO GET IN.

AND SO I'D ALMOST RATHER, I FEEL LIKE WE'VE BEEN DOING THIS A LOT TONIGHT.

I'D ALMOST RATHER SEE A MORE LIKE A CIRCULATION PATTERN OR WHAT YOU ARE ACTUALLY ENVISIONING AND WHERE WE COULD SEE A STACK, HOW MANY CARS CAN QUEUE IN LINE.

BECAUSE IF YOU'RE ONLY ABLE TO GET LIKE, SAY, FIVE IN LINE, I CAN ALMOST GUARANTEE IF YOU WERE ONLY GOING DO THAT MUCH BUSINESS, YOU WOULDN'T PUT A DRIVE THRU IN.

SO YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF CARS, AND I'D LIKE TO SEE HOW YOU CAN PUT 10 OR I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU GUYS DO IT FOR LIKE THE TACO CASA HAS GOT A DOUBLE DRIVE THRU BECAUSE THEY'RE ANTICIPATING SUCH A BACKUP.

SO WHAT THE CODE MINIMUMS ARE REALLY WHAT WE WOULD BE REQUIRED TO DO.

SO THEY ALREADY MEET THEIR DISTANCES.

BUT I BELIEVE IT'S SIX CARS IS WHAT'S REQUIRED BY THE CODE RIGHT NOW.

SO THAT'S WHAT STAFF WOULD END UP SAYING IS WHAT WE WOULD NEED.

SO YOU'D COME INTO THAT FIRE LANE, MAKE THE LOOP OR COME IN ON THAT BACKSIDE IN THAT EXISTING DRIVEWAY.

I'LL USE THE BUT YOU'RE SAYING, STAFF MINIMUM, IF THEY ALREADY HAD THE RIGHT TO DO IT.

BUT IF THEY'RE ASKING. IF THEY'RE REVIEWING ANY DRIVE THRU, THAT'S WHAT WE WOULD WE DO HAVE THE POWER TO GO HEY WE THINK YOU NEED TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET WHATEVER NUMBER.

YEAH, BECAUSE THEY HAVE EXISTING DRIVE RIGHT HERE.

WHAT I'M IMAGINING IS THAT THEY'RE GOING TO COME IN AND IT'S GOING TO BE MORE OF A LOOP SITUATION THAN HERE BECAUSE THIS AND THIS IS GOING TO BE TOO CLOSE TO ONE ANOTHER TO MEET THOSE UDC DRIVEWAY REQUIREMENTS FOR SEPARATION.

SO IT WILL NEED TO BE EITHER COMING AROUND HERE, WHICH WOULD THEN MEET THAT MINIMUM REQUIREMENT OR COMING IN FROM THE NORTH AND LOOPING BACK AROUND AND THEN BACK OUT.

SO YOU THINK THEY MIGHT COME IN OFF FRONT STREET, DRIVE THROUGH THE LOT, EXIT ON TO AUSTIN, COME BACK IN ON AUSTIN AND THEIR OVERFLOW GRAVEL LOT. OK, SO YOU'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT THEM, COMING ON AUSTIN COMING BACK IN. AND AVOIDING AUSTIN OR IF THEY WANTED TO COME DOWN TO AUSTIN, THEY WOULD HAVE TO COME IN, GO THROUGH THAT EXISTING AND THEN LOOP BACK AROUND.

BUT THAT WOULD BE A LITTLE BIT OF AN AWKWARD TURN.

HMM. I MEAN, THIS IS FROM WHAT YOU JUST EXPLAINED, SO I MEAN, I GO TO ROUND ROCK DONUTS REGULARLY AND THAT DRIVE THRU LINE IS ALWAYS HOPPING.

IT'S CRAZY. IT'S IN THE MIDDLE OF STREETS AND LIKE THEIR TOWN CENTER.

[02:20:02]

AND IT'S NOT A PROBLEM BECAUSE THEY'RE ABLE TO GET PEOPLE.

WHEN THEY GET BUSY, THEY GET STAFF OUT THERE, THEY TAKE ORDERS AND YOU'RE IN AND OUT, YOU KNOW, SO FAST AND EFFICIENTLY.

AND THE STAFF OVER A HIPPO CAFE IS AWESOME IN TERMS OF, AGAIN, Y'ALL ARE LIKE CHICK FIL A YOU KNOW, STAFFERS OVER THERE.

AND SO I JUST SEE IT LIKE ESPECIALLY IF THE INGRESS EGRESS IS LIKE THAT WITH THE TRAFFIC FLOW. IT REALLY WOULDN'T BE TOO MUCH OF A CONCERN.

THE CONCERN IS MORE SO IF IT'S GOING TO BE COMING FROM THE WEST STREET.

I'M SORRY, AUSTIN STREET.

PEOPLE JUST KIND OF GETTING BACKED UP, ESPECIALLY IF WE HAVE 20 FOOT BOX TRUCKS COMING DOWN THE ROAD. BUT I DO LIKE THE IDEA OF IT, OF YOU UTILIZING THAT BACK DRIVE THROUGH SPACE AN THAT BACK GRAVEL AREA.

CERTAINLY KEEP IN MIND THAT WITH AN SUP, ANY OF THOSE THINGS CAN BE CONDITIONED IF YOU HAVE CONCERNS AND THEN ALSO SUP'S IF THERE IS AN ISSUE IN THE FUTURE YOU CAN ALWAYS ASK US TO BRING THEM BACK AND SAY, HEY, WE GAVE YOU A SPECIFIC USE PERMIT.

THIS REALLY SEEMS LIKE IT GOT WAY MORE INTENSE THAN WHAT WE HAD ORIGINALLY IMAGINED.

CAN YOU COME BACK? LET'S REWORK THIS SITUATION.

YEAH. AND SO THAT'S ALWAYS AN OPTION AS WELL.

I JUST FEEL LIKE IF ROUND ROCK DONUTS CAN MAKE IT WORK WITH THEIR VERY LIMITED PARKING AND DRIVE THRU AND IT'S GREAT, THEN WE CAN CREATE SOMETHING THAT FLOWS WELL AND WORKS FOR THE COMMUNITY SO Y'ALL CAN DO BUSINESS AND WE CAN ENJOY HIPPO CAFE.

SO THAT BRINGS UP A QUESTION BECAUSE ROUND ROCK DONUTS STILL HAVE DOZENS OF DONUTS OF EACH TYPE READY TO GO.

AND SO YOU ORDER AND THE FOOD'S THERE AND THEY JUST HAVE TO PACK IT AND GIVE IT TO YOU.

HIPPO CAFE ARE WE GOING TO HAVE PEOPLE ORDERING IN LINE BECAUSE THERE.

I BELIEVE THAT WHAT THEY HAVE RIGHT NOW OR WHAT THEY HAVE SET UP RIGHT NOW IS THE GHOST KITCHEN, WHERE YOU GO ONLINE, YOU ORDER AND THEN ONCE YOU DRIVE IN.

SO PICK UP ONLY, IT'S JUST TO PICK UP, OK? THAT'S WHAT I MEAN CHIPOTLE DID THAT WITH THEIR DRIVE THRU WHERE YOU DON'T ORDER THERE.

THERE'S NO WAY TO ORDER THERE.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE PREVIOUSLY ORDERED WHEN YOU GET IN LINE SO THAT THEY CAN HAVE THAT FLOWING THROUGH. AND YEAH, BECAUSE I MEAN, YOU KNOW.

MAKES SENSE. MAKING A STEAK FOR SOMEBODY IS NOT SOMETHING THAT IS GOING TO WORK VERY WELL IN THE DRIVE THRU SO. [LAUGHTER] SO OK, WAIT, 15 MINUTES, WHY WOULD WE NEED THE MENU? THAT'S WHAT I'M GOING TO SAY.

SO IF YOU WANTED TO, I WOULD SAY, LET'S GO AHEAD AND MAKE THAT A CONDITION THAT WE'RE NOT GOING TO ALLOW A MENU BOARD SO THEY CAN'T PULL UP AND THEN ORDER AND YOU DON'T HAVE THAT RADIO INTERACTION THAT WOULD THEN POTENTIALLY ANYBODY OFF SITE COULD HEAR IT.

AND WE'VE GOT SOME DECIBEL ISSUES.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE GO AHEAD AND MAKE THAT IT'S AN ORDER PRE ORDER.

I DO THINK THE SPEAKER IS IMPORTANT IN THE FACT THAT YOU PULL UP.

IT'S LIKE ORDERING ANYTHING ON MOBILE AND THEN YOU SHOW UP TO PICK UP.

YOU SAY, HI, I'M BLAH BLAH BLAH.

I'M HERE TO PICK UP MY ORDER AND THEN THEY GET IT IN THE QUEUE.

RIGHT. SO YOU COULD DO THAT WITH THE MENU BOARD AND IT WOULD JUST BE THE SPEAKERS] OF THAT. SO YOU HAVE THE TIME TO SAY, THIS IS WHO I AM AND IT'S KIND OF LIKE THE STARBUCKS, THROUGH SOMETHING LIKE THAT, BUT NOT A TRUE MENU BOARD WHERE YOU COULD ACTUALLY DO THE ORDERING. RIGHT. AND WE COULD CERTAINLY ADD THAT TO THE SUP.

IF THIS IS REALLY A MORE OF A PRE ORDER, YOU PULL UP, YOU PICK UP, YOU TELL THEM YOUR NAME AND YOU PULL THROUGH.

SO I'M GOING TO MAKE THE SUGGESTION I [INAUDIBLE] TO PIZZA HUT, I'M EMBARRASSED TO SAY THAT, BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY DO IT BECAUSE YOU GO IN AND YOU KIND OF COME UP TO THE WINDOW AND YOU SAY YOUR NAME AND THEY'VE GOT A PIZZA THERE.

AND SOMETIMES I WAIT AND I GOT TO PULL OVER.

I ALMOST THINK WE'RE LIKE, I'M NOT IN THE RESTAURANT BUSINESS, BUT I CAN'T IMAGINE IF YOU HAVE A BUNCH OF PEOPLE HOW THEY'RE GOING TO PULL UP TO A WINDOW AND GO, OK, WELL, SIR, YOUR ORDER IS NOT READY.

SO CAN YOU PLEASE PULL FORWARD? THAT HAPPENS TO ME EVERYWHERE, BUT THERE'S NO PLACE TO PULL FORWARD.

SO I ALMOST WONDER BEST BUY DID A DEAL DURING THE PANDEMIC WHERE YOU COME IN AND YOU PULL UP TO A SPOT AND THEN YOU CALL THAT NUMBER AND TEXT YOUR SPOT NUMBER AND THEY BROUGHT YOUR WHATEVER TV OUT OR SOMETHING.

AND I ALMOST WONDER IF IT WOULDN'T BEHOOVE Y'ALL TO INSTEAD OF DOING A DRIVE THRU AND GO THAT ROUTE THAT YOU ADDED JUST ADDITIONAL PARKING [INAUDIBLE] THE BACK FOR PICKUP.

AND IT WAS NUMBERED ONE THROUGH FIVE.

AND THEN SOMEONE COULD COME IN AND TEXT YOU.

I'M IN POSITION NUMBER TWO, AND THEN YOU JUST HAVE A PERSON WHO YOUR DRIVE THRU PERSON WALKS IT OUT BECAUSE I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW YOU'RE GOING TO GET A HAMBURGER THROUGH THERE AND YOU'RE GOING TO GET A CHICKEN FRIED STEAK AND YOU SAID 15 MINUTES AND THE MAYOR PRO TEM, HE'S SO HUNGRY THAT HE DOESN'T WANT TO WAIT.

HE COMES UP FIVE MINUTES EARLY AND HE'S JAMMING THE LINE UP AND THEN SO IT JUST SEEMS TO ME THAT MAYBE THERE MIGHT BE A BETTER WAY, BUT AGAIN, I HAVEN'T RUN A DRIVE THRU, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE. I DON'T KNOW THAT WE DON'T HAVE A QUITE FULL PLAN, BUT I KNOW YOU GUYS GOT A PROBLEM BECAUSE [INAUDIBLE] DECENTLY AMOUNT AND I'VE NEVER SEEN IT REALLY SLOW SO.

MARY, YOU MADE THE MENTION OF RIO GRANDE AND THOSE ARE PICKUP ORDERS ONLY, AND THEY GIVE YOU A TIME ESTIMATE OF HOW LONG IT'S GOING TO BE.

MOST OF THE TIME, IT'S PRETTY ACCURATE, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE THAT WOULD BE A MORE SUITABLE KIND OF PICKUP AND BUT YEAH, THAT THAT WAS A QUESTION THAT I WAS GOING TO ASK WAS, CAN

[02:25:03]

YOU ORDER IN LINE? AND THAT'S WHERE THE TRAFFIC CONGESTION IS GOING TO OCCUR IS HOW DO YOU PICK IT UP? SO I DON'T THINK YOU CAN ORDER IN LINE.

A LOT OF THESE ARE LIKE DOORDASH AND WHERE YOU ORDER.

YOU DON'T ORDER IN LINE, YOU ORDER ONLINE.

ONLINE. YEAH.

SO BY THE AND I BELIEVE THEY ACTUALLY GIVE YOU LIKE A TIME PERIOD FOR WHEN YOUR FOOD WILL BE. SO THEN BY THE TIME YOU GET THERE, THE ORDER IS THERE.

IT'S DONE. AND ALSO THERE IS.

WE DID PUT ON THE CORNER A LITTLE DRIVE THROUGH SIGN.

I COULD GO AHEAD AND ASK THEM TO PUT THE LITTLE SPEAKER TO HAVE THAT ACCESSIBLE, JUST TO GIVE THAT SPACE FOR THEM TO SAY, HEY, I'M HERE TO PICK UP THIS ORDER.

ALL RIGHT, IF THERE'S NO OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS, I GUESS A MOTION WOULD BE IN ORDER.

I WOULD SAY I THINK IT'S WORTH IT TO MAYBE LOOK AT THE SPOTS LIKE THE MAYOR IS SUGGESTING TO ME THAT MAKES THE MOST SENSE, BUT OBVIOUSLY I'M NOT IN THE RESTAURANT BUSINESS EITHER.

SO. BUT.

YEAH, I GUESS WHERE I'M AT IS, YEAH, WE'RE NOT IN THE RESTAURANT BUSINESS, YOU ARE.

YOU THOUGHT THIS THROUGH? YOU'VE KIND OF FIGURED OUT WHAT YOU FEEL IS GOING TO WORK OUT THE BEST.

I CAN'T IMAGINE THAT YOU ARE JUST KIND OF FLYING BY THE SEAT YOUR PANTS AND SAYING, WELL, ANYWAY, I JUST I FEEL LIKE WE'RE MAYBE GETTING IN YOUR WAY A LITTLE BIT.

[LAUGHTER] AND SO I MEAN, I'M COMFORTABLE WITH MAKING A MOTION TO APPROVE AS PRESENTED WITH THE COUNCIL, WITH THE STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS.

BUT ALSO WHAT WAS THE CONDITION THAT WE WANTED TO INGRESS EGRESS FROM FRONT STREET LOOPING THROUGH THE GRAVEL PARKING LOT? YEAH. YEAH, HAVING THE INGRESS EGRESS THROUGH THERE AND THEN HAVING A PROVISION WHERE YOU CAN'T ORDER IN LINE WHERE IT'S PICKUP ONLY.

I'LL SECOND. YEAH, SO FRONT STREET ACCESS.

AND NO PARKING, NO ORDERING.

I GUESS SHE'LL KNOW HOW TO WORD THAT.

ACTUALLY, NO ORDERING BETTER THAN THAT.

SO I WAS KIND OF MEASURING IT.

I'VE GOT IT UP ON GOOGLE MAPS SECTION. IF I'M LOOKING AT KIND OF THE SIZE OF THE CARS ON GOOGLE MAPS VERSUS HOW LONG THAT IS, THAT'S AT LEAST 10 CARS.

PLUS, IF YOU GO THROUGH THE PARKING LOT, I MEAN, THAT'S IT'S SET BACK QUITE A BIT.

SO IT LOOKS LIKE THERE'S A LOT.

SO WOULD THE QUESTION NOT BE IF CARS ARE LINED THERE, THEN THE CARS THAT ARE PARKED ON BOTH SIDES? CAN THEY BACK OUT WITH CARS IN LINE IF THEY WERE BACKED UP THAT FAR, YOU'D HAVE PROBABLY 30 CARS OR 40, AND THAT'S A PROBLEM IN EVERY DRIVE THRU AND FAST FOOD RESTAURANT.

I MEAN, HONESTLY, ANYWHERE YOU GO, IT'S A THIRTY FIVE FOOT DRIVE.

YOU CAN BACK INTO IT.

OK. THERE'S.

LIKE AT WORK, WE USE A MINIMUM DRIVEWAY EXACTLY FOR THAT, SO A PERSON CAN DRIVE THROUGH UNIMPEDED AND A PERSON CAN BACK OUT, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE SIZE OF THIS.

SHOULD BE ABOUT THE TWENTY SIX FEET, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THE ESD REQUIRES FOR THEIR FIRE LINES. SEE WE WON'T EVEN BUILD A TWENTY SIX FOOT DRIVEWAY DUE TO CONFLICTS, BUT.

YOU COULD PROBABLY. I MEAN, YOU COULD PROBABLY EVEN JUST GET IN 10 CARS BETWEEN THE PICKUP WINDOW AND THE LOOP AROUND.

MM HMM. YEAH.

IS IT BECAUSE I HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION, SORRY, IS IT MORE BECAUSE OF STAFFING THAT YOU'RE WANTING THE DRIVE THROUGH VERSUS THE SPOTS? NO, WE WANTED THE DRIVE THRU BECAUSE THE OWNER BELIEVED THAT IT WOULD BE EASIER TO JUST LIMIT PEOPLE BEING INSIDE AND IT WOULD BE FASTER TO JUST HAVE THE PERSON COME UP BE LIKE, I'M HERE TO PICK UP THIS AND THEN JUST GIVE IT, JUST GIVE THEM THEIR ORDER.

BECAUSE, LIKE I SAID, THEY'RE ALL ONLINE.

THEY DO NOT. YOU CAN'T ORDER WHEN YOU'RE THERE, RIGHT? AND YOU'RE RIGHT, THE BIGGEST PROBLEM WAS WHEN YOU TALK TO A LOT OF SIT DOWN RESTAURANTS, AND THAT MODEL DOESN'T WORK RIGHT NOW FOR MOST OF THEM BECAUSE UNFORTUNATELY, MOST PEOPLE AREN'T WILLING TO SIT DOWN THEY'RE WANTING TO GRAB IT AND GO HOME AND WATCH TV OR SOMETHING. RIGHT, SO THE MOTION IS APPROVING 9.4 AS PRESENTED WITH THE ADDITION OF FRONT STREET ACCESS ONLY, RIGHT AND NO ORDERING IN THE DRIVE THRU.

MADE BY COUNCIL MEMBER GORDON, SECONDED BY COUNCIL MEMBER VILLARREAL SALVO.

ANY OTHER DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION? HEARING NONE PLEASE CALL THE VOTE.

COUNCIL MEMBER KINSEY.

AYE. COUNCIL MEMBER HOLLAND.

AYE. MAYOR PRO TEM THORNTON.

AYE. COUNCIL MEMBER GORDON.

AYE. MAYOR SNYDER.

[02:30:01]

NAY. COUNCIL MEMBER VILLARREAL SALVO.

AYE. COUNCIL MEMBER SUTTON.

AYE. MOTION PASSES 6 1, THANK YOU.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH. HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.

NEXT, WE GO ON TO ITEM 9.5 CONSIDERATION OF A PUBLIC HEARING AND POSSIBLE ACTION ON

[9.5. Consideration of a public hearing and possible action on Ordinance No. O-2022-006 approving a Specific Use Permit for the property known as 106 Taylor Street, to allow a medical office (dental) and associated parking. (Ashley Lumpkin)]

ORDINANCE NUMBER O-2022-006 APPROVING A SPECIFIC USE PERMIT FOR THE PROPERTY KNOWN AS 106 TAYLOR STREET TO ALLOW A MEDICAL OFFICE, DENTAL AND ASSOCIATED PARKING.

OKAY SWEAR AFTER THIS ONE, I WILL STOP BUGGING YOU.

JUST WHAT YOU SAID. NO MORE DENTAL OR? NO, NO, WE MIGHT STILL GET DENTAL.

THIS IS A SPECIALIZED DENTAL.

LET ME GET. THIS IS ENDODONTICS YEAH, THIS IS THIS AMAZING WHITE HOUSE ON THE NORTH SIDE OF TAYLOR STREET THAT'S BEEN ACTUALLY SITTING VACANT FOR A WHILE, BUT WAS REMODELED, GOSH, PROBABLY BACK IN 2018.

SO THE USE AN HERE, YOU CAN KIND OF SEE THAT OVERVIEW.

IT'S A REALLY LARGE LOT.

SO WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING AT DOING IS BRINGING IN OFF THAT EXISTING DRIVE.

THEY'RE LOOKING AT BRINGING IN A PARKING LOT AND THEN ACTUALLY THE SUP IS FOR THE MEDICAL OFFICE USE. SO IN THIS DOWNTOWN AREA, YOU ACTUALLY ARE REQUIRED TO HAVE A SPECIFIC USE PERMIT FOR MEDICAL OFFICE, ALTHOUGH NOT JUST OFFICE, JUST TO LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, IS THIS GOING TO WORK? IS THE BUILDING GOING TO WORK? HOW DOES THE SITE ACTUALLY PERFORM? SO YOU CAN SEE FROM BUT AGAIN, FROM HERE, THIS IS THE PARKING THAT THEY'RE REQUIRED TO HAVE, BUT CERTAINLY THEY HAVE AREA.

IF THEY NEED TO, THEY CAN FURTHER EXPAND THAT PARKING AREA IN THE FUTURE.

SO THE PROPOSED MEDICAL OFFICE USE MEETS THOSE REQUIREMENTS OF THE UDC.

THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING AND THE STAFF.

I'M SORRY, THE APPLICANT'S REPRESENTATIVE IS HERE.

ALL RIGHT, SO IF THERE'S NO OBJECTIONS FROM COUNCIL WE'LL OPEN UP THE PUBLIC HEARING.

FIRST AT 9:32.

IS THERE ANYONE FROM THE PUBLIC THAT WISHES TO SPEAK ON THIS SUP.

ALL RIGHT SEEING NONE WE'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 9:32.

OPEN IT UP TO COUNCIL.

I HAVE A QUESTION ACTUALLY RELATED TO PARKING.

I'M ASSUMING THAT THAT IS NOT A LARGE ENOUGH PARKING AREA AND PARKING ON TAYLOR STREET IS AT A MINIMUM. SO ARE THEY GOING TO EXPAND THE PARKING LOT INTO THE BACK OF THE BUILDING? AND YOU KNOW, HOW MANY TREES ARE THEY LOOKING AT NEEDING TO TAKE DOWN? THEY COULD EXPAND THEIR PARKING LOT.

I BELIEVE THIS IS ACTUALLY IN THE ENGINEER IS HERE.

THIS SHOULD BE ENOUGH PARKING.

THIS IS JUST CONCEPTUAL.

THIS SHOULD BE ENOUGH PARKING FOR A MEDICAL OFFICE WITH THE SIZE OF THE BUILDING AND THE SIZE OF WHAT THEY'RE PUTTING IN THERE, JUST BECAUSE IT'S LIKE ONE SPACE FOR EVERY I THINK TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY SQUARE FEET.

BUT CERTAINLY, I KNOW THAT WE HAVE SOME OTHER MEDICAL OFFICES ALMOST DIRECTLY ADJACENT TO CITY HALL THAT HAVE THAT SAME PARKING, AND IT'S NEVER ENOUGH PARKING.

SO CERTAINLY IF WE START TO SEE THAT IT'S AN ISSUE, THEY HAVE THE SPACE.

THEY DID SHOW A SEPARATE SITE, ONE THAT ACTUALLY SHOWED ADDITIONAL.

BUT FOR THIS, WE'RE REALLY CONCENTRATED ON IS A MEDICAL OFFICE AN APPROPRIATE USE FOR THIS STRUCTURE? AND THEN CERTAINLY, WE'LL HAVE TO GO BACK THROUGH ALL SITE PLANNING, MAKE SURE THAT THIS DRIVEWAY AND THEIR INGRESS EGRESS MEETS THE FIRE CODE, THINGS OF THAT NATURE. AND THEN IF YOU HAVEN'T BEEN BY THE BUILDING RECENTLY, THERE IS ACTUALLY AN ADA RAMP THAT WAS ADDED A FEW YEARS AGO DURING THE REMODEL.

SO WE ALSO WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT ALL OF THIS FUNCTIONS WITH THAT ADA RAMP AND IN MIND AS WELL. DO WE KNOW HOW MANY CHAIRS WILL BE THERE? I CAN CERTAINLY ASK THIS IS A MORE SPECIALIZED DENTIST.

THIS IS NOT JUST A TYPICAL DENTIST.

I BELIEVE THIS IS MORE OF A PERIODONTAL SPECIALIZED.

YOU GET SENT HERE.

FEET BECAUSE I'VE NEVER SEEN A RESTAURANT PARKED ADEQUATELY.

AND IF THERE'S FIVE CHAIRS, I THINK I COUNTED 13 PARKING SPOTS.

SO ASSUMING THEY HAVE FIVE PEOPLE, THEY NEED FIVE EMPLOYEES THAT'D BE 10 SO I THINK THAT MIGHT HELP US WITH THE PARKING THING.

AND THEN YOU'VE GOT THE PATIENTS RIGHT? I MEAN, FIVE EMPLOYEES AND FIVE PATIENTS AND THEN A COUPLE THAT WAY.

GOOD EVENING. HOW ARE YOU? GOOD.

GOOD EVENING. MAYOR AND COUNCIL COUNCILMAN.

I'M JEN HENDERSON. I'M THE APPLICANT FOR THIS ONE.

FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, THERE'S PROBABLY ONLY GOING TO BE THREE SPECIALIZED CHAIRS HERE.

HE'S AN ENDODONTIST, SO HE LOOKS FOR REFERRALS FROM OTHER DENTISTS IN THE AREA.

AND NOT SPECIFICALLY, HE'S NOT YOUR EVERYDAY DENTIST.

SO PROBABLY THREE CHAIRS.

THAT MAKES SENSE. PROBABLY. IT'S STILL VERY MUCH IN DESIGN RIGHT NOW.

THEY DON'T USE REGULAR LIKE CITY WATER, SO THAT'S A BIG PIECE OF WHAT HE'S DESIGNING THE INSIDE FOR IS THE HOLDING TANKS THAT HE'S GOT TO HAVE FOR THAT.

ALL RIGHT. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FROM COUNCIL? I HAVE MAYBE ONE MORE FOR ASHLEY.

[02:35:05]

SO I GUESS THE QUESTION IS, DO THESE TRANSFER? DO SUP'S TRANSFER SO IF WE APPROVE IT FOR MEDICAL AND THEN FOR SOME REASON THE DENTAL OFFICE DOES NOT DO WELL? I KNOW ENDODONTIST IS DEFINITELY A SPECIALTY, BUT JUST IN GENERAL, WE DO HAVE A LOT OF DENTIST OFFICE HERE IN HUTTO, WHICH MAY BE GREAT FOR THEM, MAYBE YOU HAVE A LOT OF REFERRALS, BUT JUST IN CASE IT DOESN'T PAN OUT AS FAR AS THEIR BUSINESS GOES HERE OR AT THAT LOCATION, WOULD THAT SUP AUTOMATICALLY TRANSFER TO ANOTHER MEDICAL OFFICE THAT WANTED TO COME IN? OR WOULD THEY HAVE TO REAPPLY IF THAT MEDICAL OFFICE WERE TO CHANGE? EACH SUP IS SPECIFIC TO THAT USER.

I THINK THAT'S ONE THING THAT WE SAW THERE WAS A PREVIOUS SUP THAT WAS DONE UNDER A SEPARATE ORDINANCE, I THINK WHEN WE CALL THEM WARRANTS AND NOT SPECIFIC USE PERMITS THAT HAD SOME ISSUES ON NOISE, AND SO WHEN THAT USE WENT AWAY, THAT USE WAS NO LONGER WELL, THAT USE WASN'T PERMITTED ANYMORE.

ANOTHER USER WOULD HAVE HAD TO COME IN AND SAY, I WANT TO DO THE SAME THING AND COME FORWARD WITH THEIR OWN PLANS, SO YOU WOULD NOT JUST HAVE A TRANSFER.

IF THIS GOES AWAY, THAT ORDINANCE, THERE'S A KIND OF LIKE A SUNSET CLAUSE IN THE ORDINANCE OF IT'S ONLY FOR THAT USER.

OK, GOTCHA. AND I KNOW I KNOW THIS AND HONEST, I'M EXCITED BECAUSE MY CURRENT ANTIDOTE MRS. IN TEMPLE, SO I DON'T WANT TO DRIVE TO TEMPLE ANYMORE.

BUT BUT I KNOW HE HAS CURRENTLY A LOT OF PATIENTS WHO LIVE IN HUTTO WHO HAVE TO DRIVE TO HIS OTHER LOCATION. AND I THINK IT'S ROUND ROCK OR GEORGETOWN.

AND SO THOSE HUTTO PATIENTS WOULD BE ABLE TO COME HERE, STAY CLOSER AND WE'D GET THE TAX BENEFIT. YEP, I MOVED TO APPROVE NINE FIVE AS PRESENTED.

A MOTION BY COUNCIL MEMBER VILLARREAL SALVO, DO YOU HAVE A SECOND, A SECOND BY COUNCIL MEMBER SUTTON NINE FIVE, IS PRESENTED ANY DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION? VERY NONE, PLEASE CALL THE VOTE COUNCIL MEMBER VILLARREAL SALVO.

MAYOR PRO TEM THORNTON I COUNCIL MEMBER GORDON I COUNCIL MEMBER I COUNCIL MEMBER SUTTON I COUNCIL MEMBER KINSEY I.

MAYOR SNYDER I.

AND THE MOTION PASSED A SEVEN ZERO.

THANK YOU, ASHLEY. ALL RIGHT, THAT BRINGS US UP TO ITEM 10 ONE CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE

[10.1. Consideration and possible action on Resolution No. R-2022-019 authorizing the City Manager to enter into an agreement for engineering and design services of the Lakeside Estates Phase 1 sidewalk project. (Angie Rios, Wade Benton)]

ACTION ON RESOLUTION NUMBER TWENTY TWENTY TWO ZERO ONE NINE AUTHORIZING THE CITY MANAGER TO ENTER INTO AN AGREEMENT.

FOR ENGINEERING AND DESIGN SERVICES, I'M PROBABLY READING THIS WRONG.

LAKE, WHAT LAKESIDE ESTATES PHASE ONE SIDEWALK PROJECT THAT IS COMING TO FRUITION, THAT IS COMING TO FRUITION? SO AS YOU REQUESTED IN THE BUDGET, YOU REMEMBER WE INCLUDED PHASE ONE OF THIS PROJECT.

SO THEY HAVE THIS IS THE TASK ORDER.

WE'RE ASKING YOU TO APPROVE TO START THE DESIGN ON THAT FOR 110000 ROUGHLY.

AND OF COURSE, WE HAVE 550 IN THE IN THE BUDGET.

SO THAT WOULD GET THIS PROJECT KICKED OFF.

HMM. AWESOME.

THIS ONE'S A LOT BIGGER THAN I EXPECTED I WAS, I DIDN'T THINK WE'D BE ABLE TO GET THAT MUCH IN PHASE ONE. THAT'S PRETTY AWESOME WHEN I SAW THE.

UNTIL IT'S COMPLETELY DESIGNED, I CAN'T TELL YOU FOR SURE WHAT THE CONSTRUCTION DOLLARS, YOU KNOW. SO, OK, SO PORTIONS OF PHASE ONE WHEN WE GET THE CONSTRUCTION MAY HAVE TO.

WELL, THAT'S THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THEY'LL BE LOOKING AT.

THEY'LL BE INSTRUCTED TO KIND OF LOOK AT WHAT WHAT IS BUDGETED AND KIND OF WORK WITHIN THAT BECAUSE WE DID BREAK IT INTO THAT.

SO HOPEFULLY, BUT I CAN'T SPEAK TO THAT FOR SURE.

WE'LL GET. BUT THERE IS GOING TO BE AND SOME OF IT, WE'LL GET CONSTRUCTED.

I CAN'T TELL YOU FOR SURE HOW FAR OR WHAT THAT IS.

I MEAN, CLEARLY NOT THE ENGINEER.

SO I'M JUST ASKING FOR THE APPROVAL SO THAT WE CAN MOVE FORWARD AUTHORIZED THEM TO START THE WORK. THE ALTURA SOLUTIONS PORTION OF THIS WHEN THEY COME IN AND THEY DO THE INSPECTION REPORTS, THE SITE VISITS, ET CETERA.

[INAUDIBLE] EACH TIME BECAUSE I KNOW THERE'S FOUR PHASES THAT Y'ALL ARE PRESENTING FOR THIS. CORRECT.

EACH TIME ALTURA GETS INVOLVED, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO PAY EVERY ONE OF THOSE FEES.

SO EVERY TIME YOU HAVE A PROJECT THAT GOES TO CONSTRUCTION, THERE'S A CERTIFICATION PROCESS FOR THAT FOR ADA COMPLIANCE, BOTH FOR THE DESIGN AND THE CONSTRUCTION.

SO THERE'LL BE A REGISTRATION AND A REVIEW PORTION.

AND THEN ONCE IT'S CONSTRUCTED, THERE'S AN INSPECTION THAT KIND OF CLOSES THAT OUT AND GETS SET AND FOUR PHASES IS WHAT'S FEASIBLE TO GET IT GOING.

IT'S WELL IN SMALLER PHASES, I MEAN, IN LIKE FEWER PHASES.

WELL, INITIALLY IT'S SET UP AS FOUR PHASES AND REALLY, THAT COMES DOWN TO HOW AGGRESSIVE YOU WANT TO BE ON THE FUNDING FOR PHASING IT OUT.

INITIALLY, IT WAS CONCEIVED AS BEING A MULTIYEAR.

HOW AGGRESSIVE CAN WE BE ON THE FUNDING, ANGIE? SO WE'RE NOT DOING FOUR OF EACH OF THESE FEES AND INVOICING, POTENTIALLY.

I GUESS THAT'S HOW MUCH OF THE FUND BALANCE DO YOU WANT TO COMMIT TO DOING THIS, YOU KNOW, IN THIS YEAR.

SO THAT I MEAN, I GUESS THAT'S MORE OF A DISCUSSION FOR YOU GUYS TO SAY, YOU KNOW, I

[02:40:04]

THINK THEY'RE ESTIMATING IT TO BE OVER TWO OVER TWO MILLION, PROBABLY BY THE TIME IT'S ALL MEAN.

TWO MILLION FOR THE WHOLE FOUR PHASES.

THAT'S CORRECT. OK. AND THAT'S INCLUDING THE FOUR FEE CYCLES FOR ALTURA INCLUDED IN THAT.

THAT'S THE THAT'S THE APPROXIMATE PROJECT COST AT THIS POINT.

AND AGAIN, LIKE ANGIE SAID, I MEAN, AS WE GET INTO THIS, OBVIOUSLY WE'RE GOING TO REFINE THOSE NUMBERS AND AND WHAT GOES INTO THAT, YEAH, IT'S IT'S STILL AN ESTIMATE BECAUSE WE WE DON'T HAVE DESIGN, WE HAVEN'T DONE ANY OF THAT WORK.

AND SO UNTIL SOMEONE GETS IN THERE AND DOES THAT, WE CAN'T SPEAK TO THE TOTAL, YOU KNOW, EXACTLY WHAT IT IS.

AND THIS IS ONLY TO DESIGN THE FIRST PHASE.

SO THAT'S THE OTHER PART.

IF YOU WANTED THE ENTIRE THING DESIGN, THAT'S A DIFFERENT COST.

AND YOU KNOW, RIGHT, THAT WOULD THEN LAY OUT WHAT WHAT WOULD BE THE TOTAL COST OF THE PROJECT. AND THEN YOU COULD, YOU KNOW, FROM THE FULL DESIGN, I GUESS PROBABLY WE'LL TELL ME IF I'M SPEAKING NOW AND THEN DECIDE HOW MUCH OF IT YOU WANT TO, YOU KNOW, IF YOU WANT TO TALK TO PERCENTAGES, MAYBE AFTER YOU HAD THE FULL DESIGN, IS THAT RIGHT? YEAH, WE COULD CERTAINLY DO THAT.

I MEAN, THIS INITIAL EFFORT IS FOR THE DESIGN FOR PHASE ONE, THERE WOULD OBVIOUSLY BE SOME PLANNING ON HOW THAT MULTIPLE YEAR OR SUBSEQUENT YEARS WOULD WOULD LAY OUT AND REALLY THAT KIND OF. SO IF WE WERE TO GO INTO THE CIP PLAN THAT WE PUT TOGETHER BEFORE WE WERE WORKING ON THAT, BUT THAT'S I MEAN THAT THIS IS ONLY FOR PHASE ONE.

SO THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT YOU'RE WANTING.

JUST REALLY UNDERSTAND THAT YOU NEED TO DIRECT THEM TO GO BACK.

IF WE'RE GOING TO EXPEDITE I THINK THE IDEA IS LIKE, WE NEED TO GET IT DONE RIGHT, LIKE IT'S BEEN ON THE BOOKS FOR A WHILE.

IF WE WERE TO DO PHASE ONE AND GET IT STARTED.

COULD PHASES TWO, THREE AND FOUR BE LOOKED AT TOGETHER? BECAUSE EACH TIME YOU GO TO DESIGN IS AT ANOTHER LIKE SETUP COST AS WELL AND TIME FRAME IN TERMS OF GETTING DESIGN TO US AND ENGINEERING, ET CETERA? WELL, I MEAN, THERE IS, BUT JUST AS ANY PROJECT.

BUT I THINK FOR THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT, YOU KNOW, IT'S GOING TO BE A SIMILAR APPLICATION. IT'S REALLY FITTING THE SIDEWALKS INTO AN EXISTING NEIGHBORHOOD.

AND THERE'S CONSTRAINTS, YOU KNOW, IN DIFFERENT LOCATIONS, WHETHER IT BE DRIVEWAYS OR WHATEVER. AND SO FITTING THAT IN, I DON'T I DON'T.

THERE MIGHT BE SOME ECONOMIES OF SCALE, BUT IT REALLY DEPENDS ON THE MAIN COST ARE GOING TO BE ON THE CONSTRUCTION SIDE.

AND SO REALLY THAT'S GOING TO BE OK IN TERMS OF FROM A FUNDING STANDPOINT, WHAT DRIVES THE PHASING. OK.

MY QUESTIONS ARE COMPLETELY FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF MAKING UP FOR LOST TIME LIKE WE'VE DONE ON A LOT OF WE'RE TRYING TO DO ON AS MANY INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECTS THAT WE'VE GOTTEN BEHIND ON. SO JUST LOOKING AT WHERE WE CAN GET STARTED AND THEN WHERE CAN WE ACCELERATE THE PROCESS IN FUTURE PHASES WHILE WE GET STARTED.

AND SO JUST LOOKING AT IT FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE, BUT IT'S GOOD TO KNOW.

I THINK THE LAKESIDE ESTATES PEOPLE WILL BE VERY HAPPY TO SEE EVEN PHASE ONE OR COMING UP ON ALMOST TEN YEARS AGO, AS WAS PROMISED.

AND AS I THINK PHASE ONE DEFINITELY IS WHY IT'S PHASE ONE SHOULD BE FIRST, AND I THINK WHENEVER WE TALKED ABOUT THAT ONE, THAT WAS SIDEWALKS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE STREET.

CORRECT. RIGHT. I'M WONDERING, THOUGH, WHENEVER WE GO INTO THE SECOND AND THIRD PHASES, IT MIGHT BE WORTH IT, MAYBE TO REACH OUT TO SOME OF THOSE COMMUNITY GROUPS TO SEE IF WE CAN HAVE IT JUST ON ONE SIDE, BECAUSE I KNOW SOME OF THOSE STREETS ARE A LITTLE BIT SMALLER AND MAYBE NOT AS QUITE OF OF A FRONTAGE, SO I'M NOT SURE FOR THIS PHASE.

I DEFINITELY THINK IT SHOULD BE BOTH SIDES.

BUT THEN FOR THE SUBSEQUENT PHASES, IT MIGHT BE WORTH IT TO SEE WHAT THE ACTUAL RESIDENTS IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD WANT.

I KNOW NOW THEY HAVE TO HAVE BOTH SIDES, BUT SINCE WE'RE GRANDFATHERING THEM IN, I'M NOT SURE IF THEY HAVE TO STILL HAVE BOTH SIDES OF THE SIDEWALK ON THE STREET.

DO YOU GUYS KNOW? DO WE HAVE TO HAVE BOTH SIDES? YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE BOTH SIDES, IT'S REALLY KIND OF A POLICY DECISION.

I MEAN, BUT YOU WOULD YOU WOULD LIKE TO HAVE A CONTINUOUS PATH.

I MEAN, ONCE YOU'VE KIND OF PICKING A OR CHOSEN A ROUTE AS YOU KIND OF STICK WITH THAT.

I'M JUST THINKING FROM MONEY PERSPECTIVE, AS IT WAS ONE OR PHASE TWO.

NO, NO PHASE ONE, I THINK DEFINITELY NEEDS TO BE BOTH SIDES.

BUT I MEAN, I'M JUST SAYING IT MIGHT BE WORTH TO DO KIND OF SOME COMMUNITY OUTREACH IN THAT AREA BECAUSE SIDEWALKS HAVE BEEN SUCH A HOT BUTTON ITEM IN THAT AREA FOR ALMOST TEN YEARS. SO ESPECIALLY WITH THEY REALLY JUST WANT TO GET IT DONE.

AND IF MONEY BECOMES A CONSTRAINT FOR THESE SUBSEQUENT PHASES, THEN I DON'T KNOW.

THERE MAY BE SOME WIGGLE ROOM FROM THE COMMUNITY THERE.

AT LEAST THAT'S MY FEELING AND THE CIP PROCESS.

THAT'S SOMETHING YOU CAN DEFINITELY DIRECT AND KIND OF DECIDE AS WE GO THROUGH THAT AND WE TRY TO FIGURE OUT THESE NEXT PHASES THAT CAN OBVIOUSLY COME FROM COUNCIL AS TO HOW YOU WANT TO HANDLE THAT. SO, YEAH.

WELL, OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS ON THE PHASE ONE OTHERWISE A MOTION WOULD BE IN ORDER.

I MOVE TO APPROVE TEN ONE AS PRESENTED, SECOND.

MOTION BY COUNCIL MEMBER VILLARREAL SALVO, SECOND BY COUNCIL MEMBER KINSEY, APPROVING TEN ONE AS PRESENTED ANY OTHER DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION?

[02:45:03]

HEARING NONE, PLEASE CALL THE VOTE.

COUNCIL MEMBER GORDON AYE COUNCIL MEMBER SUTTON AYE COUNCIL MEMBER HOLLAND AYE COUNCIL MEMBER KINSEY AYE COUNCIL MEMBER VILLARREAL SALVO AYE MAYOR SNYDER AYE MAYOR PRO TEM GORDON AYE.

MOTION PASSES SEVEN ZERO.

MAYOR COULD WE TAKE A SHORT BREAK, PLEASE.

SURE, LET'S COME BACK AT 10:00 O'CLOCK.

WE'LL TAKE A BREAK AT 9:46.

BE BACK AT 10:00. ALRIGHT IT'S 10:01, WE'RE BACK FROM RECESS.

IF THERE'S NO OBJECTIONS FROM COUNCIL I'D LIKE TO MOVE ITEM ELEVEN TWO UP THE DISCUSSION ON RACIAL PROFILING.

ALL RIGHT. SO HEARING THE OBJECTIONS, WE'LL MOVE TO ITEM ELEVEN TWO DISCUSSION REGARDING

[11.2. Discussion regarding Racial Profiling results. (Dr. Alex Del Carmen)]

RACIAL PROFILING RESULTS.

AND WELCOME BACK, DR.

DEL CARMEN CHIEF STUART.

GOOD EVENING, MAYOR AND COUNCIL MEMBERS, I WANT TO GIVE A BRIEF BIO, AND DR.

DEL CARMEN, DR.

ALEX DEL CARMEN IS CONSIDERED AN AUTHORITY ON THE TOPIC OF RACE AND CRIME AND PARTICULAR EMPHASIS ON RACIAL PROFILING AND LAW ENFORCEMENT.

HE'S WRITTEN NUMEROUS ARTICLES AND INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED JOURNALS AND PUBLISHED SEVERAL BOOKS, AND HAS PRESENTED HIS RESEARCH FINDINGS ON RACIAL PROFILING THROUGHOUT THE WORLD. HE'S TRAINED THOUSANDS OF POLICE OFFICERS, INCLUDING ALL THE TEXAS POLICE CHIEFS, SINCE 2001.

HE'S ALSO RESPONSIBLE FOR CREATING THE TEXAS RACIAL PROFILING STATISTICAL TEMPLATE WIDELY USED BY LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES THROUGHOUT THE STATE AND IS OFTEN A GUEST ON MAJOR NEWS OUTLETS. HE'S CURRENTLY A PROFESSOR AND ASSOCIATE DEAN OF THE COLLEGE OF LIBERAL AND FINE ARTS AND THE SCHOOL OF CRIMINOLOGY, CRIMINAL JUSTICE AND STRATEGIC STUDIES AT TARLETON STATE UNIVERSITY.

IN THAT ROLE, HE OVERSEES THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE PROGRAM AND THE DIVISION OF PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION. HE HAS BEEN APPOINTED AS A FULBRIGHT SPECIALIST BY THE UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF STUDY. HE'S ALSO SERVED AS A FEDERAL MONITOR FOR TWO OF THE MOST SIGNIFICANT POLICE REFORM CASES IN THE UNITED STATES, CURRENTLY SERVING AS A SPECIAL MASTER FOR THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT AND FOR THE DISTRICT OF PUERTO RICO AND UNDER PUERTO RICO POLICE REFORM CASE.

I'M PLEASED TO BRING HIM UP TO PRESENT OUR RACIAL PROFILING DATA.

THANKS, CHIEF, I.

HE MAKES ME SOUND SO SMART WHEN HE READS THAT STUFF, RIGHT? BUT. GOOD EVENING.

MAYOR AND DISTINGUISHED MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL IS GOOD TO SEE ALL OF YOU AGAIN AND IN SOME CASES HERE FOR THE FIRST TIME, AS CHIEF MENTIONED ALEX DEL CARMEN, I CURRENTLY ANALYZE YOUR DATA REGARDING RACIAL PROFILING.

SO THERE'S A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT I WANT TO TELL YOU BEFORE MY VERY QUICK PRESENTATION, I REALIZE FOR A COLLEGE PROFESSOR, I THINK THE CHIEF TOLD ME I HAD UNTIL MIDNIGHT.

I'M JUST KIDDING. JUST A JOKE.

BUT I WHAT I WANTED TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT IS TELL YOU A COUPLE OF THINGS.

NUMBER ONE IS WE'RE DOING A DEEP DOVE ON THE DATA, RIGHT? SO I PROMISED YOU GUYS.

SO WE WERE GOING TO DO THAT LAST YEAR, AND WE'RE WORKING ON TWO YEARS WORTH OF DATA.

SO 2020 AND 2021.

SO WE HOPE TO HAVE MORE ANSWERS TO A LOT OF THE QUESTIONS AND ALL OF THAT SOMETIME IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF MONTHS.

SECONDLY, I WANT TO TELL YOU THE GOOD NEWS THAT YOUR POLICE DEPARTMENT IS IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE LAW, WHICH IS WHAT EVERY CITY COUNCIL WANTS TO HEAR IN THE STATE OF TEXAS AS IT RELATES TO WHAT THEY'VE DONE.

SO VERY QUICKLY.

WHAT I WANT TO TELL YOU IS THAT THE HUTTO POLICE DEPARTMENT DID NOT REPORT ANY COMPLAINTS LAST YEAR ON RACIAL PROFILING, BY THE WAY.

THAT'S A PLUS, RIGHT, BECAUSE IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT RACIAL PROFILING ISN'T TAKING PLACE IN SOMEWHERE. BUT IT DOES CERTAINLY MEAN THAT, YOU KNOW, AT LEAST THE GIVEN THE FORMAT THE OUTLETS OF REPORTING RACIAL PROFILING COMPLAINTS, NO ONE'S OUT THERE, YOU KNOW, ATTESTING TO THE FACT THAT PERHAPS RACIAL PROFILING TOOK PLACE.

THE POLICE DEPARTMENT IS IN COMPLIANCE WITH SENATE BILL TEN SEVENTY FOUR, WHICH WAS OUR FIRST RACIAL PROFILING LAW AND THE SANDRA BLAND ACT, WHICH WAS ACTUALLY PASSED THREE YEARS AGO. THE PD ACTUALLY HAS IN THE LOBBY AREA THE COMPLAINT FORM AS TO HOW YOU FILE A COMPLAINT. EVERY POLICE OFFICER THAT MAKES A TRAFFIC STOP WHEN THEY MAKE A TRAFFIC STOP AND THEY GIVE SOMEONE A CITATION.

THERE IS INFORMATION ON THE BACK OF THE CITATION FORM, WHICH ACTUALLY DOES SUGGEST AS TO WHAT WEBSITE THEY NEED TO GO TO AND WHERE THEY CAN FIND INFORMATION, HOW TO REPORT A COMPLAINT AND OR COMPLIMENT.

BY THE WAY, THAT IS A REQUIREMENT BY TEXAS LAW.

AS YOU AS YOU MAY KNOW, THE FINDINGS GET INTO THE BOTTOM LINE AS TO WHAT WE FOUND IS THAT MOST OF THE CONTACTS THAT WERE MADE WERE MADE WITH ON MALES.

MOST OF THE CONTACTS WERE CAUCASIAN OR WHITES.

OFFICERS REPORT, FOR THE MOST PART, TO NOT HAVE KNOWN THE RACE OR ETHNICITY OF THE INDIVIDUAL PRIOR TO THE STOP.

JUST SO YOU KNOW, IN THE CONTEXT OF THE ENTIRE STATE.

THIS IS PRETTY MUCH A STANDARD PRACTICE WHERE MOST OF THE STATE OFFICERS CLAIM THEY DON'T KNOW THE RACE OR ETHNICITY OF THE INDIVIDUAL.

THE MOST FREQUENT REASON FOR A STOP WAS MOVING TRAFFIC VIOLATIONS, AND MOST OF THE STOPS TOOK PLACE ON CITY STREETS AS WELL.

MOST OF THE STOPS DID NOT RESULT IN A SEARCH, WHICH IS ALSO A POSITIVE THING OF THOSE THAT WERE SEARCHED. THE REASON CITED THE MOST WAS PROBABLE CAUSE, WHICH YOU ALL KNOW THE

[02:50:03]

STANDARD FOR THAT MOST SEARCHES RESULTED IN CONTRABAND BEING DISCOVERED.

THAT IS A BIG ITEM.

IF I COULD PUT ANYTHING ON, YOU KNOW, FONT TWENTY TWO WITH BOLD LETTERS WOULD BE THAT ONE. AND THE REASON FOR THAT IS BECAUSE IN THE PAST PROBABLY TEN YEARS, WE'VE GOTTEN AWAY FROM THE ARGUMENT AS TO WHO OFFICERS REALLY STOP.

THAT MAKES GREAT HEADLINES IN THE NEWSPAPER.

BUT WHAT REALLY MATTERS, THOUGH, IS WHAT HAPPENS ONCE THE STOP IS MADE.

RIGHT? SO THE FACT THAT MOST OF YOUR MOST OF YOUR SEARCHES RESULTED IN CONTRABAND IN THE EYES OF EXPERTS LIKE MYSELF THAT LOOK AT DATA THROUGHOUT THE YEAR THROUGHOUT THE UNITED STATES, THAT'S A REALLY, REALLY GOOD SIGN.

THE CONTRABAND THAT WAS FOUND IN MOST WAS DRUGS.

MOST OF THE STOPS RESULTED IN WRITTEN WARNINGS, RIGHT? WHICH MEANS THAT THE OFFICERS, YOU KNOW, GAVE SOMEBODY ROOM TO IMPROVE RIGHT BEFORE THEY ACTUALLY ISSUED OUT A CITATION.

MOST OF THE ARRESTS WERE BASED ON VIOLATIONS OF THE PENAL CODE, AND THIS IS AN IMPORTANT POINT AS WELL. IN NO INSTANCES AT ALL WAS FORCE USED THAT RESULT IN BODILY INJURY.

SANDRA BLAND REQUIRES FOUR POLICE DEPARTMENTS NOW TO REPORT THE REASON FOR THE STOP THE LOCATION OF THE STOP AND WHETHER OR NOT FORCE WAS USED THAT RESULTED IN BODILY INJURY DURING A TRAFFIC RELATED STOP.

AND SO HUTTO PD REPORTS NONE, WHICH IS ANOTHER GREAT THING, RIGHT WHEN WE COMPARE THIS TO TO DATA. I WANT TO MAKE THIS VERY CLEAR AND VERY IS A VERY SIMPLE COMPONENT, BUT I'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR TWENTY FIVE YEARS AND AS YOU CAN IMAGINE, WE'VE LEARNED A LOT OVER THE TWENTY FIVE YEARS LOOKING AT THOUSANDS, IF NOT MILLIONS, OF DATA SETS.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT PEOPLE ALMOST INSTINCTIVELY COMPARE THE DATA TO IS CENSUS.

AND THAT, TO ME, IS COMPARING APPLES AND ORANGES.

POLICE OFFICERS AND POLICE DEPARTMENTS ACROSS THE U.S., PARTICULARLY IN TEXAS, DO STOP INDIVIDUALS THAT DON'T LIVE IN THE CITY.

SO WHEN YOU MAKE A STOP ON SOMEONE THAT DOESN'T LIVE IN THE CITY AND YOU COMPARE THAT TO INDIVIDUALS THAT LIVE IN THE CITY, YOU ARE COMPARING APPLES AND ORANGES.

YOU KNOW, IN THE METROPLEX, IN THE DALLAS FORT WORTH AREA WHERE I LIVE, A LOT OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENTS IN THAT AREA IN THE IN THAT PARTICULAR AREA, THEY'LL TELL YOU ANYWHERE. BETWEEN SIXTY AND SIXTY FIVE PERCENT OF THEIR CONTACTS ARE NONRESIDENT CONTACTS. AND SO WHEN YOU COMPARE THAT TO CENSUS, YOU REALLY ARE COMPARING TWO VERY DIFFERENT FIGURES. I GET THAT IT MAKES GREAT HEADLINES AND PEOPLE MAKE ALL SORTS OF EXTRAPOLATION FROM THE DATA.

BUT THOSE OF US THAT ARE RESPONSIBLE WITH DATA CONSUMPTION AND ANALYSIS WILL TELL YOU THAT WE DO IT BECAUSE IN MANY WAYS THE STATE REQUIRES US TO DO IT, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, WE CAVEAT IT BY SAYING WE LOOK AT CONTRABAND HIT RATE, WHICH IS WHAT WE I INCLUDED IN YOUR REPORT, AND YOU CAN LOOK AT THAT AS THE FACTOR THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO LOOK AT, RIGHT? WE FOUND THAT MOST OF THE OF THE ACTUAL CONTACTS THAT WERE MADE, I THINK I SKIPPED YEAH, I SKIPPED A COUPLE OF HERE.

THE PERCENTAGE OF WHITES WHO CAME IN CONTACT WITH THE POLICE WAS ACTUALLY LOWER THAN THE PERCENTAGE OF THOSE HOUSEHOLDS IN THE CITY OF HUTTO THAT HAVE ACCESS TO VEHICLES.

CONVERSELY, WHEN YOU COMPARE BLACKS, HISPANICS, ASIANS AND AMERICAN INDIANS AND BY THE WAY, THESE ARE THESE ARE TERMS THAT ARE USED BY THE STATE.

AS FOR A HOUSE BILL THREE FIFTY ONE, THE DATA SUGGESTED THAT THE PERCENTAGE OF BLACKS, HISPANICS, ASIANS, AMERICAN INDIANS WAS HIGHER IN TERMS OF CONTACTS THAN THOSE HOUSEHOLDS. BUT AGAIN, I SUBMIT TO YOU THAT WE NEED TO CONSIDER THE FACT THAT MANY OF THEM ARE NONRESIDENTS.

MOST OF THE CONTRABAND THAT WAS FOUND ORIGINATED FROM SEARCHES THAT WERE MADE ON WHITES, AND THIS WAS FOLLOWED BY HISPANICS.

AND FINALLY, THE POLICE DEPARTMENT COMPLY WITH THE LAW.

IT REVISED ITS RACIAL PROFILING POLICY.

IT IS CURRENT. IT IS UP TO DATE.

I LOOK AT IT EVERY YEAR TO MAKE SURE THAT HE HAS THE MOST RECENT COMPONENTS IN THERE.

IT ENGAGED OUR FIRM AS AN OUTSIDE ENTITY IN ORDER TO PROVIDE AN OBJECTIVE REPORT.

AND BELIEVE YOU ME, WHEN I TELL YOU, IN THE TWENTY FIVE YEARS THAT I'VE BEEN DOING THIS, WHEN THERE IS A PROBLEM, I TELL COUNCIL AND I TELL MAYORS AND I TELL CHIEFS OF POLICE THAT THERE IS A PROBLEM.

AND I'M TELLING YOU RIGHT NOW THERE IS NO PROBLEM THEY'RE IN FULL COMPLIANCE WITH THE LAW.

IN ADDITION TO THAT, THEY ENHANCE.

THEY COLLECTED THE ENHANCED VERSION OF TIER TWO AND WE ACTUALLY ANALYZED THE DATA, AS YOU NOTED, AND WE INFORM THE PUBLIC AND THEY INFORM THE PUBLIC RATHER WHEN MAKING A CONTACT, HOW TO FILE A COMPLAINT OR A COMPLIMENT.

AND FINALLY, WE DID PROVIDE IMPLICIT BIAS TRAINING, AS SOME OF YOU KNOW, BECAUSE YOU WERE IN THE CLASS LAST YEAR, WHICH IS ANOTHER STEP AHEAD OF WHAT OTHER AGENCIES ARE DOING IN THE STATE. AND I'M HAPPY TO TELL YOU THAT IN A FEW DAYS I'LL BE CONDUCTING TRAINING ON POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY, WHICH IS A TOPIC THAT IS VERY DEAR TO MY HEART BECAUSE THAT SEEMS THAT IS IN FACT SOMETHING THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NATIONALLY.

IN FACT, I TEACH AT THE FBI ACADEMY IN QUANTICO FOUR TIMES A YEAR AT THE NATIONAL ACADEMY, AND I DO WILL SHARE WITH THEM THE SAME STUFF THAT I SHARE WITH THOSE POLICE LEADERS ACROSS THE UNITED STATES.

SO ANY QUESTIONS? THAT WAS SHORT, I WAS TOLD TEN MINUTES OR LESS, MAYOR, SO I'M TRYING TO DELIVER.

TO COUNCIL FOR QUESTIONS COMMENTS.

[02:55:01]

SO A FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT, SO THE CENSUS, I DEFINITELY UNDERSTAND.

YOU KNOW, THE POPULATION OF PEOPLE WHO GET PULLED OVER DOES NOT MATCH THE POPULATION OF THE CITY. YOU WOULD THINK THAT IT PROBABLY MATCHES FAIRLY WELL THE POPULATION OF THE REGION OR EVEN THE POPULATION OF THE STATE.

DO WE DO WE COMPARE THOSE NUMBERS AT ALL? SO, SO WE DO REGIONAL COMPARISONS AND WE DO STATE COMPARISONS.

PART OF THE PROBLEM WITH THAT IS THAT CENSUS DATA MEASURES PEOPLE THAT DON'T NECESSARILY DRIVE PERIOD.

AND SO BY VIRTUE OF THAT, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE PERCENTAGE OF INDIVIDUALS THAT DON'T DRIVE MAY NOT QUALIFY TO DRIVE.

AND QUITE HONESTLY, MAY QUALIFIED TO DRIVE BUT DON'T DRIVE, PERIOD, YOU REALLY ARE MAKING INFERENCES BEYOND THE SCOPE OF OF ANY RESPONSIBLE RESEARCHER.

AND SO CENSUS DATA HAS BEEN A CHALLENGE, AS ALL OF YOU KNOW, AND I'M NOT GOING TO GIVE A COLLEGE LECTURE ON THIS, BUT I WILL TELL YOU THAT I TEACH STATISTICS AT THE PHD LEVEL IN MY INSTITUTION, AND I OFTEN TELL MY PHD STUDENTS, IF YOU CITE CENSUS DATA, YOU WILL FAIL THIS EXAM BECAUSE THEY'VE HAD MILLIONS OF DATA POINTS THAT ARE MISSING IN WASHINGTON, D.C. THEY'VE HAD HEARINGS ON DATA SPECIFIC TO CENSUS.

SO IT IS A CALCULATION.

THE BETTER BET IS TO FIND OUT WHAT HAPPENS AFTER THE CONTACT IS MADE RIGHT.

SO IN OTHER WORDS, YOU MAY HAVE A POLICE OFFICER THAT IS BEING ACCUSED OF EIGHTY PERCENT OF HIS OR HER CONTACTS ARE AFRICAN-AMERICAN.

OK. WHAT HAPPENS ONCE THE CONTACT IS MADE? WELL, THIS OFFICER PRODUCES, YOU KNOW, THIRTY PERCENT SEARCHES OUT OF ALL OF THOSE CONTACTS. WHAT HAPPENS ONCE THE SEARCH IS MADE? OH, THEY FOUND 80 PERCENT CONTRABAND.

GUESS WHAT? THAT'S GOOD POLICE WORK, BECAUSE IF YOU'RE FINDING CONTRABAND AS A RESULT OF A SEARCH, THAT MEANS THAT THAT OFFICER REALLY, TRULY RELIED ON PROBABLE CAUSE.

CONVERSELY, IF THE OFFICER CANNOT SHOW THAT CONTRABAND IS FOUND AT ABNORMAL LEVELS, I.E.

LESS THAN THIRTY PERCENT, THEN CLEARLY THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG WITH THE PICTURE.

WE NEED TO TAKE A LOOK AT IT.

AND THEN I DID ATTEND THE IMPLICIT BIAS TRAINING.

I REMEMBER APPRECIATED THAT, DEFINITELY IT WAS THOUGHT PROVOKING.

DEFINITELY. I COULD TELL THAT, YOU KNOW, THE OFFICERS THERE WERE TAKING IT TO HEART AND WERE, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO TAKE IT IN AND AND WORK WITH IT.

I'M JUST KIND OF WONDERING, WHAT'S THE NEXT STEP IS THERE BECAUSE IT SEEMED LIKE IT WAS A REALLY GOOD INTRODUCTION AND A REALLY GOOD, THOUGHT PROVOKING EXERCISE.

BUT THEN TURNING THAT INTO HOW THAT IMPACTS ON THE JOB WOULD SEEM TO BE MAYBE A NEXT STEP IS, IS THERE ANOTHER LEVEL OF TRAINING THAT KIND OF CONTINUES ON THAT LINE? RIGHT. SO SO THE ACCOUNTABILITY TRAINING THAT I'M GOING TO DO WITH THEM TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW THEY SHOULD BE ACCOUNTABLE TO THEMSELVES AND THEN ALSO TO THEIR SUPERVISORS AND TO THE INSTITUTION THAT THEY REPRESENT.

SO I DO TALK ABOUT ETHICS AND VARIOUS THINGS.

BUT LOOK, I'M AN INSTRUCTOR AND I'VE BEEN INSTRUCTOR FOR MANY YEARS.

I ALWAYS SAY THAT THEY ARE ADVANCED TRAININGS THAT WE CAN DO.

THERE'S INTERMEDIATE IMPLICIT BIAS TRAINING AND EXPLICIT BIAS TRAINING AS WELL.

SO WE HAVE A WHOLE ENTOURAGE OF TRAININGS, RIGHT, THAT WE CAN CERTAINLY PROVIDE.

AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU FIND I CAN CERTAINLY DISCUSS.

ABSOLUTELY. YES, SIR.

GOOD, THANK YOU. YEP.

WHEN YOU USE THE TERM MOST LIKE MOST, IF YOU GO BACK, USE THE TERM MOST.

IS THAT LIKE A. HOW DOES THAT BREAK DOWN DATA? LIKE WHAT'S THE PERCENTAGE WHEN YOU SAY MOST A REFERENCE TO WHAT? IF YOU GO BACK LIKE MOST SEARCHES ENDED UP IN FINDING CONTRABAND? OH, I SEE. YEAH.

THE THE WORD MOST IS USE A LOT AND THERE'S NO SPECIFIC NUMBER.

YEAH. SO IF YOU LOOK AT THE REPORT AND I'VE GOT AN ELECTRONIC COPY HERE IN FRONT OF ME, BUT THE REPORT ACTUALLY GIVES YOU A GOOD SENSE OF WHAT THAT MOST MEANS, RIGHT? AND SO WHEN WE LOOK AT THE CONTRABAND FOUND, YOU HAVE TWO HUNDRED AND SIXTY SEARCHES THAT WERE PERFORMED IN 2021 TWO HUNDRED AND TWELVE OF THEM RESULTED IN CONTRABAND THAT'S CERTAINLY MOST. OK.

RIGHT. SO SO I MEAN, THAT'S A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT PERCENTAGE OF THE SEARCHES THAT WERE PERFORMED BY YOUR POLICE OFFICERS.

AND AND I WILL TELL YOU IN STATISTICS, THAT'S AN OUTLIER.

THAT'S NOT NORMAL.

LIKE, YOU KNOW, NORMALLY IN A GOOD WAY, RIGHT? SO IT MEANING IT'S AN OUTLIER IN A GOOD WAY IN THE SENSE THAT YOU'RE I MEAN, FOR YOU TO FIND TWO HUNDRED AND TWELVE INSTANCES OF CONTRABAND OUT OF TWO HUNDRED AND SIXTY SEARCHES, THAT'S UP THERE.

SO YES, MA'AM, THAT'S WHAT THAT MEANS.

OK. WELL.

I HAD A QUICK QUESTION FOR YOU.

I WAS IN I WAS AN ON COUNCIL AT TIME OF YOUR FIRST PRESENTATION, BUT I WAS IN THE AUDIENCE AND I REMEMBER SOMETHING THAT YOU HAD SAID WAS THAT A LOT OF TIMES WHENEVER THEY'RE CLASSIFYING LIKE WHITE ON A DRIVER'S LICENSE, IT DOES INCLUDE OFTEN HISPANICS.

SO ON WHEN YOU VERY FIRST SLIDE WHENEVER YOU SAID MALE AND WHITE.

DOES THAT INCLUDE CAUCASIAN, WHITE AND HISPANIC OR BECAUSE I REMEMBER THAT BEING A VERY I JUST DIDN'T. I DIDN'T KNOW THAT.

YEAH. SO IN THE STATE OF TEXAS, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, WE HISPANICS ARE NOT COUNTED AS PART OF OUR ON OUR DRIVER'S LICENSES.

AND SO WHAT THAT MEANS IS THAT IF AN OFFICER WERE TO PULL ME OVER AS A FIRST GENERATION

[03:00:01]

HISPANIC AMERICAN TEXAN, THEY WOULD LOOK AT MY NAME, WHICH IS ALEJANDRO.

LAST NAME IS DEL CARMEN, AND THEY WOULD.

THE AUTO POPULATE DEFAULT RACE THAT WOULD POPULATE IN THAT OFFICER'S SYSTEM WOULD BE WHITE. IT WOULD NOT BE HISPANIC.

HENCE, THE REASON WHY SANDRA BLAND AND ALL THE WAY UP TO 2001 SENATE BILL TEN SEVENTY FOUR REQUIRES POLICE OFFICERS TO BASICALLY GIVE AN APPROXIMATE.

I DON'T WANT TO USE THE WORD GUESS, BUT IT IS AN APPROXIMATE GUESS AS TO WHAT THAT PERSON REASONABLY CAN BE.

AND SO IF AN OFFICER WERE TO PULL ME OVER AND HERE'S PERHAPS AN ACCIDENT AND SEES MY NAME, THAT OFFICER WOULD THEN BE PROMPTED TO SAY THIS INDIVIDUAL MAY IN FACT BE A HISPANIC MALE, AND THEREFORE THE OFFICER WOULD WOULD PHYSICALLY ENTER THE THE LETTER H INSTEAD OF THE W THAT IT WOULD DEFAULT TO.

NOW SANDRA BLAND, BECAUSE OF THAT PROBLEM THAT HAS EXISTED IN TEXAS FOR MANY YEARS REQUIRES AGENCIES TO DO THESE AUDITS THROUGHOUT THE YEAR WHERE THEY LOOK AT A SAMPLE OF DATA. WE GO THROUGH THAT SAMPLE OF DATA AND ENSURE THAT THOSE CODES HAVE BEEN APPROPRIATELY RECORDED BY LOOKING AT DASH CAM VIDEO, BODY CAM VIDEO AND LOOKING AT THE CITATIONS. I DO THAT FOR THEM.

AND SO AND THEY ALSO HAVE AN INTERNAL MECHANISM WHERE THOSE AUDITS ARE BEING DONE.

SO I CAN GUARANTEE THAT IT'S A HUNDRED PERCENT ACCURATE.

NO DATA EVER IS, BUT I CAN TELL YOU THERE ARE MECHANISMS IN PLACE TO ADDRESS THAT INACCURACY IN HUTTO.

OK, GOTCHA. AND THEN MY OTHER QUESTION IS WHAT? WHAT IS CONSIDERED AT? WHAT LINE IS IT CONSIDERED REPORTABLE BODILY INJURY? LIKE WHAT IS THE THRESHOLD WHERE? YEAH, SO, SO SO THE THERE IS THE CRIMINAL CODE IN THE STATE OF TEXAS AS IT RELATES TO TO RESULTING IN BODILY INJURY.

SPECIFIC TO SANDRA BLAND IS WHEN LITERALLY THE PERSON SAYS, OUCH, OK.

AND SO, SO SO IF AN OFFICER ENGAGES IN A MOTOR VEHICLE, STOP AND THAT OFFICER USES FORCE.

HOWEVER, FORCE IS DEFINED.

PART OF THE PROBLEM THAT WE'RE HAVING IN THE CIVIL RIGHTS WORLD IS THAT THERE IS NO USE OF FORCE DEFINITION UNIVERSALLY IN THE UNITED STATES.

EVERY POLICE DEPARTMENT HAS A DIFFERENT DEFINITION OF IT.

BUT LET'S SAY AN OFFICER ENGAGES IN USE OF FORCE AND THE PERSON SAYS, OUCH.

BELIEVE IT OR NOT, THAT IN ITSELF WOULD BE CONSIDERED RESULTING IN BODILY INJURY.

NOW THAT IS THE MOST EXTREME, YOU KNOW, DEFINITION.

BUT THEN WE HAVE THE MORE CONSERVATIVE ONES WHICH ARE, YOU KNOW, AN OFFICER USING A TASER AND THEY HAVE TO REMOVE THE PRONGS FROM THE PERSON.

EMS IS CALLED TO THE SCENE.

THAT WOULD BE AN INSTANCE WHERE BODILY INJURY WOULD BE THE RESULT OF THAT MOTOR VEHICLE STOP. SO IF YOU PULL OVER.

SOMEBODY AND THEY ARE HIGH ON DRUGS, AND THEY'RE PUTTING IT HAS TO GET A LITTLE AGGRESSIVE TO GET THEM TO SUBMIT.

CALM DOWN SOMETIMES AND THEY'RE PUTTING HANDCUFFS ON AND THEY SAY, OUCH, THAT THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD GET RECORDED AS POTENTIAL.

YEAH. THAT'S A REALLY GOOD QUESTION.

IT DEPENDS IF IF THE IF THE USAGE OF HANDCUFFS IS CONSIDERED TO BE USE OF FORCE IN THAT PARTICULAR AGENCY, IT'S NOT A UNIVERSALLY DEFINED DEFINITION.

SO SOME AGENCIES, LIKE IF YOU GO TO ARLINGTON, FOR INSTANCE, THEY'RE VERY QUOTE UNQUOTE LIBERAL IN THEIR DEFINITION AND USE OF FORCE.

AND SO IT WOULD LIKELY INCLUDE THAT.

BUT IF YOU GO TO OTHER PLACES, THAT DEFINITION IS NOT IN PLACE.

SO BY VIRTUE OF THAT, THERE MAY BE SOME DIFFERENCES THERE.

BUT I WOULD SAY THAT FOR THE MOST PART, THIS REALLY DOESN'T ENCOMPASS INSTANCES WHERE THEY'RE USING TASERS.

THEY'RE USING A BATON.

OBVIOUSLY, IF THEY SHOOT SOMEONE.

THOSE WOULD ABSOLUTELY COUNT.

YES, MA'AM. GOOD TO KNOW.

HOW DOES HUTTO DEFINE IT? THAT'S A REALLY GOOD QUESTION.

I BELIEVE THAT YOU GUYS DO NOT HAVE HANDCUFFING AS PART OF USE OF FORCE.

AM I RIGHT WHEN I SAY THAT CHIEF? YEP, YEP. INTERESTING.

YOU KNOW, I TOLD THE MAYOR, TEN MINUTES, BUT I'M NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR QUESTIONS.

MAYOR, SO PLEASE DON'T COUNT THIS AGAINST ME AND THAT'S WHERE WE DRAG IT OUT IS.

I, YOU KNOW, I THINK THIS IS AN INTERESTING TOPIC.

I CAN TALK ABOUT IT ALL NIGHT.

BUT ANYWAY.

WELL, SO GLAD YOU GUYS ARE.

WE'RE STILL USING A THIRD PARTY.

OK, I THINK YOU DO A GREAT JOB.

I KNOW MY FIRST YEAR ON COUNCIL IT WAS LIKE A QUICK, FIVE MINUTE REPORT AND IT WAS LIKE, HERE YOU GO. AND IT WAS.

I THINK IT WAS A VERY BASIC AT THAT TIME, TEN QUESTIONS AND MY MIND WAS BLOWN BECAUSE I SAID, WELL, HOW DO YOU GET ANYTHING OUT OF THESE.

AND THEN SO WE TALKED, AND I THINK THE LAW CHANGED AND IT GOT MORE DESCRIPTIVE.

SO I'VE GOT SOME QUESTIONS.

THESE AREN'T NECESSARILY I DON'T I'M WITH YOU.

I DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING. IT JUST POPPED RIGHT OUT.

BUT I KNOW THAT THERE IS PEOPLE IN OUR COMMUNITY THAT LIKE COUNCIL MEMBER AND I WERE TALKING BEFORE, I DON'T TRUST ANYBODY, RIGHT? AND SO IMMEDIATELY, I'M ALWAYS GOING, OK, WHERE THEY WHERE ARE THEY SNOWING ME OUT ON THIS? AND SO I KNOW OTHER PEOPLE LIKE THAT TOO.

[03:05:01]

AND SO SO SOME OF THESE QUESTIONS ARE NOT THAT THERE'S AN ISSUE, BUT WHEN PEOPLE HAVE A QUESTION OR THEY DOUBT SOME OF THE INFORMATION, I'M HOPING THAT WE CAN SE HOW IT GOES.

SO YOU SAID THE CONTRABAND IS AN OUTLIER IN TERMS OF THE SUCCESS RATE OF A SEARCH GETTING CONTRABAND WHEN SOMETHING GOES AT HIGH, CAN THAT ALSO TRIGGER THAT? HEY, IT WAS SO GOOD THAT THAT COULD ALSO MEAN THAT.

DOES THAT MAKE SENSE LIKE WHEN SOMETHING'S REALLY GOOD IN STATISTICS? DOES THAT USUALLY MEAN THAT SOMETHING YOU JUST KEEP TRACK OF? AND IF IT'S A CONTINUAL ISSUE BECAUSE YOU WOULDN'T IMAGINE HUTTO ALWAYS BE IN GOOD AT? WELL, I MEAN, I THINK THE EXPECTATION IS THAT POLICE OFFICERS WILL ADHERE TO THE LAW AND WILL ENFORCE THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES, RIGHT? SO. SO WITH THAT PREMISE, WE HOPE THAT THE MAJORITY OF POLICE OFFICERS, IF NOT ALL OF THE POLICE OFFICERS, ARE IN FACT DOING THAT ACROSS THE UNITED STATES.

TO YOUR POINT AND TO YOUR QUESTION.

IT DOESN'T STRIKE ME AS AS AN ODDITY.

IT DOESN'T IT DOESN'T STRIKE ME AS SOMETHING THAT I NEED TO BE SUSPICIOUS OVER, PARTICULARLY BECAUSE I HAVE ACCESS TO THEIR BODY CAM VIDEOS, THEIR DASH CAM VIDEOS I HAVE ACCESS TO TO THEIR CITATION.

I'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR TWENTY FIVE YEARS, AS YOU KNOW, MAYOR.

AND SO FOR ME, IF THEY'RE GOING TO DO A FAST ONE PAST ME, IT'S GOING TO BE VERY DIFFICULT FOR THAT TO HAPPEN. NOT IMPOSSIBLE, BUT VERY, VERY DIFFICULT.

SO I WILL TELL YOU THAT THIS IS ABSOLUTELY VERIFIABLE AND THIS IS ONE HUNDRED PERCENT ACCURATE AS IT RELATES TO THE PERCENTAGE OF CONTRABAND RATE.

THAT IS AN ANOMALY.

BUT THERE ARE OTHER OTHER AGENCIES THROUGHOUT THE UNITED STATES THAT ARE IN THAT CATEGORY AS WELL, WHICH IS GREAT.

YOU TYPICALLY SEE THAT THESE AGENCIES REVIEW THEIR POLICIES ON A YEARLY BASIS, WHICH HUTTO PD DOES. THEY REVIEW THEM, ENSURE THAT THEY'RE THEY'RE IN PLACE.

YOU SEE THAT THEY BRING TRAINING THAT IS NOT REQUIRED BY THE STATE, WHICH IN YOUR CASE, YOU'RE DOING THAT AS WELL.

SO THERE ARE A LOT OF INDICATORS, YOU KNOW, KIND OF LIKE THAT OLD SAYING IF IT WALKS LIKE A DUCK AND HE TALKS LIKE ONE, MAYBE IT IS ONE.

AND SO I NEVER MAKE CONCLUSIVE STATEMENTS ABOUT PEOPLE WHEN THERE'S THAT HUMAN ELEMENT IN PLACE. BUT I WILL TELL YOU THAT AT LEAST THE SPIRIT AND THE BEHAVIOR AND THE TONE THAT IS BEING SET HERE IS THAT OF PROFESSIONALISM AND THAT WHERE IF THERE'S RACISM IN PLACE, THERE'S NO TOLERANCE FOR THAT.

AND THAT'S AWESOME, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT I LIKE IS THE WAY YOU EXPLAIN THAT TO WHERE NOT ONLY ARE YOU JUST LOOKING AT SOME NUMBERS ON TICKETS, YOU'RE ACTUALLY GOING THROUGH AND SEEING VIDEO SO THAT WHEN PEOPLE SAY THAT, THAT'S WHY I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR EVERYBODY TO KNOW IS THAT YES, SIR, THIS IS NOT JUST DATA ON TICKETS OR ARRESTS, BUT ALSO WE'RE USING VIDEO TO.

SO THAT'S GREAT. AND THEN.

SO HOW WOULD WE KNOW? LET'S SAY SO YOU SAY THAT WHEN YOU PULL, WE PULL PEOPLE OVER.

THE BIGGEST INDICATOR, IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE IS IF.

IF WE FOUND CONTRABAND OR FOR SEARCHES EQUALING CONTRABAND, BUT WHAT IF WHAT IF I WANTED? OR WHAT IF AN OFFICER WANTED TO JUST HARASS A CERTAIN PERSON, JUST PULL THEM OVER, GIVE THEM A WARNING? HOW DO WE KNOW THAT? BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE FEEL LIKE IF THEY JUST DRIVE LIKE, I'M AFRAID TO DRIVE AT NIGHT BECAUSE I'M GOING TO GET STOPPED NOW, THEY MAY NOT GET A TICKET.

SO HOW DO WE HELP PEOPLE GET MORE CALM THAN HEY? HOW DOES THAT WORK? YEAH. I THINK YOUR QUESTION POSES AN INTERESTING PERSPECTIVE, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, I'VE ALWAYS BELIEVED IN THE OUTREACH OF LAW ENFORCEMENT TOWARDS THE COMMUNITY AND GAINING THAT TRUST.

WORDS MATTER.

BUT TO US MINORITIES, THEY GO ONLY A CERTAIN TO A CERTAIN LENGTH BECAUSE ACTIONS MATTER MORE. AND SO.

SO I SAY THAT WITH THE HUMILITY AND RESPECT TO SAY IT IS LAW ENFORCEMENT, IN MY VIEW, HAS TO CONTINUE TO REACH OUT TO THE COMMUNITY, PARTICULARLY TO THE COMMUNITY OF COLOR MINORITIES IN GENERAL, BY VIRTUE OF BUILDING THAT TRUST AND ENHANCING THAT TRUST AND PROVIDING VISIBILITY AND PROVIDING CITIZENS POLICE ACADEMIES AND, YOU KNOW, EDUCATIONAL FORUMS WHERE POLICE OFFICERS ARE VIEWED IN A POSITIVE WAY.

I KNOW IT SOUNDS LIKE A, YOU KNOW, THIRD GRADE CHAPTER TWO OF COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT, BUT IT REALLY DOES WORK.

AND WE'VE SEEN THIS ACROSS THE UNITED STATES IN AS CHIEF MENTIONED, I WORKED ON TWO ARE CURRENTLY WORK ON A CONSENT DECREE IN PUERTO RICO, AND IN A FEW WEEKS I'LL BE SITTING DOWN WITH THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR CIVIL RIGHTS KRISTEN CLARKE, AND ALL THE LAWYERS THAT TYPICALLY SUE A CITY ON BEHALF OF DOJ.

AND I CAN TELL YOU RIGHT NOW THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY WILL SAY THE SAME THING AS I'M TELLING YOU RIGHT NOW, WHICH IS IT'S ALL ABOUT THE ENGAGEMENT OF THE COMMUNITY.

AND IF WE CAN ENGAGE THE COMMUNITY AND THE COMMUNITY CAN ENGAGE BACK, A LOT OF THOSE MISTRUST OR COMPONENTS ARE GOING TO GO AWAY.

IT DOESN'T HELP WHEN WE SEE ON SOCIAL MEDIA, WHEN WE SEE OTHER POLICE DEPARTMENTS THAT ARE ENGAGING IN BARBARIC, ILLEGAL AND UNETHICAL BEHAVIOR, EVEN THOUGH THAT IN ITSELF MAY BE AN OUTLIER. BUT SOMETIMES PEOPLE HAVE A TENDENCY OF JUST MAKING EVERY POLICE OFFICER GUILTY OF SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED, YOU KNOW, TWO STATES FROM HERE IN A VERY ISOLATED PLACE. SO TO YOUR POINT, I THINK, IT'S THAT COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT PIECE, AND I UNDERSTAND

[03:10:04]

YOU'RE HIRING A NEW CHIEF, AND I WILL SAY TO YOU THAT THAT IS THAT HAS TO BE A MAJOR MAJOR COMPONENT OF WHAT YOU ALL DO IS TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S SOMEONE THAT UNDERSTANDS THAT THEIR PAYCHECK IS BEING FACILITATED BY TAXPAYERS IN THE CITY.

AND IF THEY CAN UNDERSTAND THAT, THAT THEY'RE RESPONSIVE TO CIVILIAN OVERSIGHT.

THAT IS, TO ME, ONE OF THE MOST CRUCIAL COMPONENTS OF THAT MISSION STATEMENT OR THAT CHIEF OF POLICE. SO DR.

DEL CARMEN, CAN YOU BE PART OF THE INTERVIEW PROCESS? YOU KNOW, I'M ACTUALLY HIRING A CHIEF OF POLICE RIGHT NOW FOR ANOTHER CITY, SO I'LL BE HAPPY TO DO THAT. HAPPY TO HELP YOU.

WELL, NO, I MEAN, CHIEF STUART, SINCE HE GOT HE JOINED OUR POLICE DEPARTMENT, A LOT OF THE PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY HAVE BEEN NOTICING JUST THE THE OUR POLICE, MORE THE PRESENCE. AND THEY'VE REALLY COMMENTED ON THAT TO STAFF, TO CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS.

AND THEY FEEL SAFER JUST BECAUSE THEY'RE SEEING THEM MORE.

AND THAT'S BEEN REALLY IMPORTANT.

AND THEN THEY'RE ENGAGED WITH COMMUNITY EVENTS.

AND THEN THEY DID A LOT OF COFFEES WITH THE CHIEF AND LITTLE THINGS LIKE THAT HAVE GREAT TOUCH POINTS. AND SO HE'S A GREAT GUY.

I JUST DON'T KNOW WHY HE WANTS TO RETIRE.

YOU KNOW, I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND.

BUT YOU KNOW, WE WE WERE HAVING A CONVERSATION.

I WAS TRYING TO CONVINCE HIM.

AND HE SAID OTHERS THAT ARE BIGGER, BRIGHTER AND HAVE A LOT MORE MONEY THAN YOU HAVE TRIED AND THEY'RE NOT, YOU KNOW, BUT HE'S A HE'S A GUY.

I'VE KNOWN HIM FOR A LONG TIME AND I THINK YOU ALL ARE HAVE ARE IN GREAT SHAPE AND VERY BLESSED TO HAVE HIM. SO.

SO I HAD ONE LAST QUESTION YES, SIR.

SO WE DID THIS LAST YEAR.

I THINK IT LED TO SOME INCREASED TRAINING.

BUT SO AS GOOD AS REPORT LOOKS, WHAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE AS A COUNCIL CAN LOOK AT OR AS A CITY CAN LOOK AT THAT WE CAN HELP IMPROVE TO WHERE I KIND OF FEEL LIKE IF YOU IF YOU DO REALLY GOOD TODAY, LIKE THE ENEMY OF GREAT IS GOOD, SO WHAT'S SOMETHING WE COULD WORK ON THAT WE NEED TO LOOK AT FOR NEXT YEAR IN TERMS OF MAKING US EVEN BETTER? YEAH, THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

SO I THINK THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF AREAS, RIGHT? SO ONE OF THEM WOULD BE I ALWAYS TALK ABOUT FUNDING BECAUSE I KNOW EVERY CITY IS STRAPPED FOR MONEY AND EVERYONE HAS THESE LONG DISCUSSIONS ABOUT BUDGETS.

BUT I THINK POLICE DEPARTMENTS, I'VE NEVER BEEN A PROPONENT OF DEFUNDING THE POLICE.

I'VE ALWAYS BELIEVED THAT POLICE NEED TO BE FUNDED.

IN FACT, I THOUGHT IT WAS ILLOGICAL AND I SAID SO IN NATIONAL AND LOCAL TELEVISION ACROSS THE UNITED STATES THAT, YOU KNOW, WHEN PEOPLE WERE PROPOSING TO DEFUND THE POLICE, YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE, YOU DON'T IF YOU HAVE SOMEBODY THAT NEEDS HELP.

ON THE ONE HAND, YOU JUST DON'T REMOVE ALL THE RESOURCES THAT THAT PERSON CAN HAVE.

SO TO ME, THAT WAS AN ILLOGICAL.

AND IT REALLY GOES AGAINST THE ACADEMIC LITERATURE.

I'M NOT JUST TELLING YOU THAT BECAUSE THAT'S MY OPINION, BUT THAT'S MY RESEARCH SHOWS THAT. SO I WOULD SAY THE FUNDING PART IS IMPORTANT.

SECONDLY, TRAINING, I THINK YOU TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE TRAINING AND THE ENHANCEMENT OF TRAINING.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, I WAS TELLING CHIEF THAT THERE'S SOMETHING CALLED THE TRAINING GAP ANALYSIS, WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT WE'VE DONE IN THE PAST, WHICH ALLOWS US TO LOOK AT THE TRAINING THAT'S BEING DONE NOW OUTSIDE OF THE [INAUDIBLE] MANDATE OF TRAINING AND THEN LOOK AT THOSE TRAINING AREAS THAT ARE IN LINE WITH IACP, THE INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF CHIEFS OF POLICE, PERF AND THE FBI.

AND WE ALIGN THAT TRAINING FOR THAT AGENCY BASED ON THOSE ON THOSE NORMS. I THINK SOMETHING LIKE THAT WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL HERE SO THAT THE FUTURE CHIEF, IN FACT, WHEN THAT FUTURE CHIEF COMES TO HAVE THAT PROCESS IN PLACE SO THAT THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT GAP ANALYSIS CAN WORK WITH THE CHIEF IN GOING FORWARD.

AND THEN FINALLY, I WOULD ALSO ARGUE THAT TO ME, IT'S ABOUT CRITICAL THINKING, RIGHT? THERE'S A HIGH CORRELATION IN THE LITERATURE BETWEEN OFFICERS THAT HAVE A DEGREE AND OFFICERS THAT HAVE RECEIVED FORMAL EDUCATION AND LACK OF USE OR EXCESSIVE USE OF FORCE.

AND SO WHAT I WOULD ALWAYS ARGUE IS NOT EVERYBODY GOES TO COLLEGE AND NOT EVERYBODY GETS A DEGREE, BUT IT'S IMPORTANT TO PROVIDE CRITICAL THINKING SEMINARS.

IT IS IMPORTANT TO PROVIDE, YOU KNOW, I'VE ALWAYS BELIEVED BECAUSE I'M AN ACADEMIC, THAT IT'S GREAT TO HAVE A LIBRARY, A DIGITAL LIBRARY IN A POLICE DEPARTMENT WHERE POLICE OFFICERS CAN GO TO. AND YOU KNOW, I VERY QUICKLY WILL TELL YOU THIS EXAMPLE WHEN THERE'S A BURGLARY, SOME MOTOR VEHICLES, WE CALL THEM BMV, RIGHT? I'VE HAD MANY OFFICERS SCRATCH THEIR HEADS AND SAID, OH, YOU KNOW, WE WE'RE GETTING KILLED ON BURGLARIES OF MOTOR VEHICLES.

AND I SAID TO THEM, OK, SO WHAT ARE YOU DOING? OH, WELL, JUST INCREASING PATROL.

WELL, THAT'S LIKE A 1952 RESPONSE, RIGHT? YOU INCREASE PATROLLING IN THAT AREA.

AND YEAH, IT'S GOING TO GO AWAY.

BUT CRIME MOVES.

CRIME NEVER STAYS IN ONE AREA AND IT NEVER GOES AWAY.

WELL, GUESS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU BRING THE OFFICERS BACK TO HEADQUARTERS CRIME IS GOING TO COME BACK AGAIN.

SO WHAT YOU WANT TO DO IS YOU WANT TO HAVE THESE OFFICERS, AND I WAS TELLING A FEW OF THEM RECENTLY, YOU CAN GO TO THE COPS OFFICE WEBSITE IN WASHINGTON AND YOU CAN LOOK BURGLARY OR MOTOR VEHICLES. THERE ARE SIXTY FIVE DIFFERENT REPORTS AS TO WHAT OTHER POLICE DEPARTMENTS ACROSS THE NATION HAVE DONE.

THAT ARE GREAT IDEAS, GREAT FORUMS, GREAT PROGRAMS IN REDUCING THE BURGLARY OF MOTOR VEHICLES. SO MY POINT IS RESEARCH WORKS RIGHT AND RESEARCH IS THERE.

YOU ALL DO IT ALL THE TIME IN WHAT YOU DO HERE AND IN YOUR IN YOUR IN YOUR PRIVATE LIVES.

AND SO I THINK IT'S IF WE CAN TEACH POLICE OFFICERS CRITICAL THINKING SEMINARS HOW TO HAVE THOSE RESOURCES IN FRONT OF THEM, YOU'RE GOING TO CREATE THIS SORT OF AVALANCHE OF CRITICAL THOUGHT THAT REALLY DOES.

WE'VE SEEN IT. POLICE DEPARTMENTS BECOME JUST EXPLOSIVE IN THE AREAS OF WHY DON'T WE TRY

[03:15:05]

THIS? WHY DON'T WE TRY THAT? AND BEFORE YOU KNOW IT, YOU'VE GOT, AS SOMEONE HAS SAID RECENTLY, A REVOLUTION OF CHANGE, OF THOUGHT, OF IDEAS AND OF ENFORCEMENT.

AND I AND I TO ME, YOU ALL ARE GREAT AND I JUST DON'T SAY THAT.

AND YOU HAVE A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE THIS POLICE DEPARTMENT GET TO THAT LEVEL.

I REALLY BELIEVE THAT.

SO COOL.

THANK YOU, SIR. YES, SIR.

ANYTHING ELSE FROM COUNCIL? SO JUST TO KIND OF ADD ON TO THAT, I MEAN, NOT REALLY A QUESTION FOR YOU AT ALL.

MORE OF A STATEMENT.

WE'VE APPRECIATED THE HIGH LEVEL OF SAFETY OUR OUR POLICE GIVE US IN THIS CITY.

SEEING THAT WE'RE HAVING A HIGH LEVEL OF, YOU KNOW, OF STOPS THAT ARE WARRANTED BY WHAT'S FOUND. THAT'S GREAT.

EXCEEDING, YOU KNOW, EXCEEDING THE NORMS. THERE IS WHAT WE WANT TO DO.

WE WANT TO KEEP THOSE STANDARDS HIGH.

WE WANT TO SUPPORT OUR OFFICERS WITH EQUIPMENT WITH WITH THE RIGHT LEVEL OF PAY TO HAVE A STRONG FORCE HERE.

TRAINING IS A KEY PART OF IT.

AND SO AS WE GO THROUGH OUR BUDGET CYCLE, I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE CITY MANAGER OR THE CHIEF KNOW THAT WE, YOU KNOW, AT LEAST AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED, I WANT TO SUPPORT THE RIGHT TRAINING TO KEEP TO KEEP THAT UP AND TO KEEP IMPROVING THE FORCE THAT WE HAVE AND MAKE IT MAKE IT AS GOOD AS WE CAN.

IT'S NOT, YOU KNOW, MEETING THE STATE STANDARDS IS A MINIMUM.

IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT WE WANT TO BE PROUD OF.

WE WANT TO BE WELL ABOVE STATE STANDARDS AND AND KEEP THAT UP AND DO THE THINGS WE NEED TO DO TO SUPPORT THAT. YES, SIR.

THANK YOU. THANK YOU.

MR. CITY MANAGER, IS THERE A WAY TO GET THE REPORT? ON EITHER THE CITY'S WEBSITE OR THE POLICE DEPARTMENT'S WEBSITE TO WHERE PEOPLE THAT HAVE INTERESTS CAN JUST AND MAYBE GET LAST YEAR'S WHERE THEY CAN KIND OF SEE AS A ALMOST LIKE IF THEY'RE GOING TO RESEARCH US IN A WAY TO GO, THIS MIGHT BE THE CITY I WANT TO MOVE TO BECAUSE IT APPEARS THEY ACTUALLY TAKE THIS REALLY SERIOUSLY.

ANYTHING ELSE? I JUST WANT YOU ALL TO KNOW THAT THE PERSON THAT TOOK THE MOST AMOUNT OF TIME WAS THE MAYOR, AND THE PERSON THAT ASKED ME THE MOST QUESTIONS WAS THE MAYOR.

SO I'M JUST SAYING, YOU KNOW, THE TEN MINUTES I CAN PROMISE YOU, MR. CITY MANAGER, BECAUSE I'M TRYING TO HELP YOU OUT, MAYOR, ALWAYS ANALYZING DR.

THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH.

BY THE WAY, IT'S A PLEASURE TO SEE YOU ALL AGAIN AND THANK YOU FOR THE SUPPORT THAT YOU GIVE YOUR LAW ENFORCEMENT COMMUNITY.

THEY NEED IT. THEY APPRECIATE IT, AND I KNOW THIS LONG MEETINGS ARE NOT FUN FOR YOU ALL, BUT WE APPRECIATE IT TO THOSE OF US THAT ARE WATCHING YOU SOMETIMES ON LIVE STREAM, WHICH I DO. AND SO, SO THANK YOU.

THANK YOU ALL. THANKS, SIR. THANK YOU.

HAVE A GOOD NIGHT. ALL RIGHT.

THAT BRINGS US TO ITEM TEN TWO CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION ON RESOLUTION NUMBER

[10.2. Consideration and possible action on Resolution No. R-2022-020 approving an agreement for installation of generators between Waukesha-Pearce Industries Inc. and the City of Hutto, in an amount not to exceed six hundred sixty-eight thousand two hundred fourteen dollars and forty-five cents ($668,214.45) through Buyboard contract no. 579-19 for the purchase and installation of generators for City facilities; authorizing the Interim City Manager to execute the agreement; and providing an effective date.]

R-2022-020 APPROVING AN AGREEMENT FOR INSTALLATION OF GENERATORS BETWEEN WAUKESHA-PEARCE INDUSTRIES INC.

AND THE CITY OF HUTTO IN AN AMOUNT NOT TO EXCEED SIX HUNDRED SIXTY EIGHT THOUSAND TWO HUNDRED FOURTEEN DOLLARS AND FORTY FIVE CENTS THROUGH BUY BOARD CONTRACT NUMBER FIVE SEVEN NINE DASH ONE NINE FOR THE PURCHASE AND INSTALLATION OF GENERATORS FOR CITY FACILITIES AUTHORIZED IN THE INTERIM CITY MANAGER TO EXECUTE THE AGREEMENT AND PROVIDING AN EFFECTIVE DATE. THANK YOU SO THIS ITEM IS ALSO IN THE BUDGET, AS WE DISCUSSED IN THE BUDGET PROCESS, ARE THAT TO REPLACE THE GENERATOR AT THIS FACILITY TO HAVE A MORE ROBUST GENERATOR THAT WILL DO A LITTLE BIT MORE.

AS WE LEARNED DURING THE WINTER STORM, IT DIDN'T QUITE DO AS MUCH AS WE NEEDED IT TO TO TAKE THE GENERATOR HERE AND MOVE IT TO THE POLICE ANNEX AND THEN TO ADD SOME ADDITIONAL GENERATORS AT PUBLIC WORKS AND ON SOME OF THE LIFT STATIONS TO REPLACE THE GENERATORS THAT WERE THERE TO BE MORE APPROPRIATE TO WORK DURING THE STORM.

SO THE FUNDING IS THERE IN THE BUDGET TO COVER ALL OF THE IMPROVEMENTS.

THIS WOULD AUTHORIZE A CITY MANAGER TO SIGN AND GO FORWARD WITH THIS, BUT JUST UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS A BACKLOG OF GENERATORS.

SO DON'T THINK THAT THESE ARE GOING TO GET INSTALLED BY NEXT MONTH.

WELL, THIS WILL GET THE ORDER IN PLACE AND THEN WE WILL KNOW ONCE THE ORDERS PLACED EXACTLY WHAT KIND OF A BACKLOG WE'RE LOOKING AT AND HOW LONG THAT WILL TAKE, BUT THIS WILL MOVE THE PROCESS FORWARD.

AND SO JUST TO CONFIRM IT'S THE GENERATORS FOR CITY HALL AND THE POLICE ANNEX ARE COMING FROM THE BUDGET AND THEN THE REST OF THE MONEY IS COMING FROM ARPA FUNDS, CORRECT? DOES FUNDING PROVIDE MONEY FOR WATER, WASTEWATER AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS STATED IN THERE WAS TO, YOU KNOW, CONTINUITY OF SERVICE AND TO BACK UP, YOU KNOW, MAKE SURE YOUR SYSTEM IS WORKING WELL.

SO THOSE THINGS ARE DEFINITELY COVERED IN THAT MONEY AND WE THINK THAT'S AN APPROPRIATE PLACE TO PUT IT. TO PUT THE GENERATOR[INAUDIBLE] AND THEN WORK ON THOSE LIVE STATIONS.

SO. I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY BECAUSE IN THE IN THE SUMMARY, IT SAID, INCLUDES MONEY FOR GENERATORS FOR CITY HALL AND THE POLICE ANNEX.

SO PART OF THAT MONEY ISN'T PURCHASING A NEW GENERATOR FOR THE POLICE ANNEX IT'S FOR MOVING THE EXISTING ONE OVER.

BUT THE FUNDS IN THAT INCLUDE IN HERE AND IN THE QUOTE IS INCLUDED THE COST TO INSTALL A NEW PAD. SO WE'LL HAVE TO PUT DOWN A NEW PAD AT THE ANNEX AND THEN THE ACTUAL MOVEMENT OF

[03:20:01]

IT. BUT YES, IT'S NOT A NEW GENERATOR FOR THE POLICE STATION.

THIS ONE IS KIND OF LABOR AND THEN SITE TRAP, AND WE WANT TO MAKE SURE RIGHT, A LOT OF THAT FUNDING IS TO TO PURCHASE THE NEW GENERATOR HERE AND THE INSTALLATION OF THAT AND THEN THE MOVEMENT.

SO. OK. YES, SIR.

WELL, I MOVED TO APPROVE TEN TWO AS PRESENTED, SECOND.

MOTION BY COUNCIL MEMBER VILLARREAL SALVO, SECONDED BY COUNCIL MEMBER GORDON APPROVING TEN TWO AS PRESENTED.

DO WE HAVE ANY DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION? I JUST WANT TO THANK STAFF FOR DOING IT.

I GUESS WE WERE FORTUNATE THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE A BIG WINTER EVENT THIS YEAR AND SO WE KIND OF MISS THAT. AND SO WE WE GOT A PASS, WE GOT A BYE, BUT WE'LL BE PREPARED IN THE FUTURE FOR NEXT YEAR. YES, SIR.

HOPEFULLY, THEY COME IN TEN MONTHS OR LESS.

YES. YES. HOPEFULLY IT'S NOT THAT BAD.

NOT NOT FROM WHAT WE'RE UNDERSTAND, BUT IT WILL TAKE A FEW MONTHS TO GET IN.

SO. HEARING NOTHING ELSE, PLEASE CALL THE VOTE.

MAYOR PRO TEM THORNTON AYE COUNCIL MEMBER KINSEY AYE COUNCIL MEMBER HOLLAND AYE COUNCIL MEMBER VILLARREAL SALVO AYE MAYOR SNYDER AYE COUNCIL MEMBER GORDON AYE COUNCIL MEMBER SUTTON AYE. MOTION PASSES SEVEN ZERO.

IT BRINGS US TO ITEM TEN THREE CONSIDERATION OF A PUBLIC HEARING AND POSSIBLE ACTION ON

[10.3. Consideration of a public hearing and possible action on Resolution No. R-2022-021 authorizing and creating the Estates of Hutto Public Improvement District within the City of Hutto pursuant to Chapter 372 Texas Local Government Code, providing an effective date, and related matters thereto. (Legal)]

RESOLUTION NUMBER R-2022-021 AUTHORIZING AND CREATING THE ESTATES OF HUTTO PUBLIC IMPROVEMENT DISTRICT WITHIN THE CITY OF HUTTO PURSUANT TO CHAPTER THREE SEVENTY TWO TEXAS LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE, PROVIDING AN EFFECTIVE DATE AND RELATED MATTERS THERETO.

I HAVE A QUESTION.

I KNOW THIS IS ALSO ON EXECUTIVE.

SHOULD WE MAYBE GET COUNCILS WHAT THEY WANT TO TELL US FIRST BEFORE WE ACTUALLY GO THROUGH WITH POSSIBLY APPROVING THIS PID.

RIGHT. SURE, THAT WOULD BE.

THAT'S THAT WOULD BE PRUDENT.

ALL RIGHT. WE'RE NOT ASKING FOR A FORMATION OF IT TONIGHT.

OH, OK. OK.

YEAH, I THINK WHAT THEY'RE TELLING US IS THE SAME AS WHAT YOU'RE TELLING US, BUT THERE'S NO OBJECTIONS TO COUNCIL CAN WE GO AHEAD AND OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING.

SO THAT WON'T AFFECT THE THE EXECUTIVE SESSION.

RIGHT HERE, AND THEN WE'LL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 10:38.

[INAUDIBLE] IS RENEWING IT WISHES TO SPEAK REGARDING THE PUBLIC IMPROVEMENT DISTRICT ESTATES OF HUTTO? HEARING NONE. NO ONE'S LEFT, BUT RICK.

WE JUST SOMETIMES WE LEAVE THESE OPEN, SOMETIMES WE CLOSE THEM.

I'VE SPOKEN WITH DOTTIE ABOUT THIS.

WE'RE GOING TO ASK YOU TO DO IS ADJOURN THE HEARING, WHICH IS THE LANGUAGE SPECIFICALLY USED IN THE STATUTE. YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO ADJOURN THE PUBLIC HEARING FROM TIME TO TIME UNTIL YOU MAKE CERTAIN FINDINGS OF FACT.

WE'RE GOING TO ASK YOU TO DO THAT TONIGHT BECAUSE AS I'VE COMMITTED BEFORE TO THIS COUNCIL, WE I DO NOT ASK FOR A PID TO BE FORMED UNTIL WE HAVE THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT ALSO READY TO GO.

THAT IS NOT READY.

PARTIALLY BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW THE FULL EXTENT OF SOME OF THE WASTEWATER COSTS BECAUSE THE SERVICE EXTENSION REQUEST FOR THE PROPERTY HAS BEEN PUSHED BACK.

WHILE PUBLIC WORKS ARE WORKING THROUGH SOME WASTEWATER THINGS THAT KIND OF LOOKING AT THE ENTIRE ENTIRE CITY'S WASTEWATER STRUCTURE.

SO WE CAN'T FIGURE OUT SOME OF THE COSTS AND ALL THE PIECES THAT FIT, WHICH LEADS TO THE DEVELOPMENT, WHICH THEN WOULD LEAD TO THE PID.

SO WE'RE GOING TO ASK YOU TO ADJOURN IT FOR A COUPLE OF MONTHS TO GIVE US TIME TO GET THAT SER COMPLETED AND UNDERSTAND THE CONTOURS OF THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT AND WORK ON SOME ADDITIONAL COMMUNITY BENEFITS THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO PRESENT TO THE COUNCIL TO SHOW WHY THIS PROJECT IS DESERVING OF A PID.

[INAUDIBLE] JOURNEY THAT JUST ALLOWS THE PUBLIC TO COME BACK AND STILL SPEAK ON IT.

[INAUDIBLE] MR. MAYOR, MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL BEFORE THE COUNCIL TAKES ACTION ON THIS ITEM.

I THINK IT MIGHT BE APPROPRIATE TO HAVE SOME DIALOG IN EXECUTIVE SESSION ON IT.

RIGHT. YEAH, THERE'S NO OBJECTIONS LIKE WE CAN JUST ADJOURN THE PUBLIC HEARING AND TAKE NO ACTION, RIGHT? CORRECT.

AND WE CAN ALWAYS RECALL IT.

WE WOULD LIKE FOR YOU TO COME BACK AND TAKE SOME ACTION AFTER YOU COME OUT OF EXECUTIVE SESSION. ALL RIGHT, SO WE'LL ADJOURN THE PUBLIC PORTION AT 10:41.

STATUTORILY, THAT'S GOING TO WORK.

I THINK WHAT THE PLAN WAS, AND I DON'T KNOW IF DOTTIE, I GUESS WE GOT TWO MONTHS TO COME BACK AND FIX IT. IF WE I WOULD, I WOULD.

[03:25:02]

I WOULD ASK THAT COUNCIL MEETS IN THEIR EXECUTIVE SESSION TO TALK TO THEIR ATTORNEYS.

AND THEN I THINK THEY MAY. YOU MAY BE ASKED TO ADJOURN IT TO A SPECIFIC DATE, JUST SO IT'S NOT JUST FREE FLOATING IN THE AIR, BUT I WILL DEFER TO YOUR YOUR LEGAL COUNSEL ON THAT ONE. OK.

ALL RIGHTY. WELL, WITH NO OBJECTIONS.

WE'LL GO ON TO ELEVEN ONE.

HEARING NONE. ONE CONSIDERATION POSSIBLE ACTION REGARDING POSSIBLE APPOINTMENTS, RE

[11.1. Consideration and possible action regarding possible appointments, re-appointments and/or removals to City Boards, Commissions, Task Forces, Economic Development Corporations, Local Government Corporations and Tax Increment Reinvestment Zone Boards, City Council Liaisons, and Area Government appointments.]

APPOINTMENTS AND OR REMOVALS TO CITY BOARDS COMMISSIONS.

OOPS. SORRY.

TASK FORCES, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT CORPORATIONS, LOCAL GOVERNMENT CORPORATIONS AND TAX INCREMENT REINVESTMENTS ZONE BOARDS, CITY COUNCIL LIAISONS AND AREA GOVERNMENT APPOINTMENTS. YOU HAVE ANYTHING FOR THIS ITEM.

WE DON'T HAVE ANY FOR THIS, MEANING WE SHOULD HAVE UP TO THREE FOR NEXT MEETING.

I DID HAVE A QUESTION RELATED TO THIS ONE, SO I UNDERSTAND.

I THINK IT WAS THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS COMMITTEE.

BRAD WALKER WAS A MEMBER OF THAT AND HE HAS MOVED OUT OF THE AREA, SO HE'S NO LONGER ON THERE. SO WE WERE DOWN ONE MEMBER ON THAT [INAUDIBLE] WAS HE ON BOTH? OR IS THAT THE ONE HE WAS ON OR WAS HE HE WAS ON? I DON'T KNOW ABOUT CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS, BUT I KNOW HE WAS ON [INAUDIBLE] OK, MAYBE THAT'S WHAT I'M THINKING. I KNOW HE WAS ON ONE.

AND SO WHEN WE DID THAT, WE DID NOT GO THROUGH THE NOMINATING COMMITTEE FOR THAT.

SO WHAT'S THE PROCESS WE WANT TO FOLLOW AS A COUNCIL TO FIND A REPLACEMENT FOR HIM? OR DO WE WANT TO FIND A REPLACEMENT? I JUST WANTED TO ASK HERE.

I THINK WE HAD DISCUSSED AT THE LAST MEETING TO TRY TO GET SOMEBODY FROM PARKS TO TO TAKE HIS PLACE BECAUSE WE DIDN'T HAVE A PARKS PERSON ON IT.

AND THAT'S A BIG PART OF THE COMP 20 40.

IF I AM RECALLING THAT CORRECTLY YEAH, OK. YEAH, THAT WAS MY SUGGESTION.