Nov 06, 2025 City Council

>> MAYOR SNYDER? >> AYE. MOTION PASSES, 5-2. NEXT ITEM, WE HAVE 9-2, PER CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION ON RESOLUTION NUMBER R-2025-175 APPROVING THE MUNICIPAL SERVICES AGREEMENT FOR THE PROPOSED ANNEXATION OF THE CURRENT CONTRACT, 77.2 ACRES, MORE OR LESS, OF LAND, LOCATED

OFF OF FM1660S. >> GOOD EVENING, JOHN BYRUM, CITY MANAGER. THIS IS JUST ABOUT 77 ACRES OF LAND, AND THEN TO THE EAST YOU CAN SEE COUNTY ROAD 134, THIS ITEM HAS BEEN ON THE AGENDA BEFORE, SO COUNCIL, YOU SHOULD BE AWARE OF THIS, THEY ARE LOOKING AT ANNEXING -- BUT, FIRST, BEFORE WE CAN ANNEX, WE HAVE TO FINALIZE THE MSA. THERE IS ONGOING CONVERSATIONS BETWEEN GENERAL WATER AND THE APPLICANT, OR IF THEY ARE IN COMING TO HUTTO, JONAH HAS FINALIZED THAT AGREEMENT WITH THEM, SO JONAH WATER WILL BE SERVING THIS SITE. THE DEVELOPER AND AGREEMENT HAS BEEN APPROVED, EVERYTHING HAS BEEN APPROVED, MSA IS THE LAST THING WE NEED TO APPROVE BEFORE WE CAN GO TO THE ANNEXATION REQUEST. SO, IT WOULD BE THE REQUEST RIGHT NOW, WOULD BE FOR

THAT MSA APPROVAL. >> THANK YOU, SIR. QUESTIONS OR

ACTIONS FROM COUNCIL? >> MAYOR, I MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE RESOLUTION R-2025-175. APPROVING THE MUNICIPAL SERVICES AGREEMENT FOR THE PROPOSED ANNEXATION OF KIRK TRACKED.

>> DO WE HAVE A SECOND? >> SECOND.

>> ALL RIGHT, ANY DISCUSSION? ALL RIGHT, HERE NONE. PLEASE

CALL THE VOTE. >> MAYOR SNYDER?

>> AYE. >> MAYOR PRO-TEM THORNTON?

>> AYE. >> COUNCILMEMBER GORDON?

>> AYE. >> MOTION PASSES, 7-0. NEXT, WE

[9.3. Continue a public hearing and possible action on Ordinance No. O-2025-026 approving the Annexation of the Kirk tract, 77.2 acres, more or less, of land, located off FM1660S and to establish the base zoning of SF-1 (Single Family) and B-2 (General Commercial). (John Byrum)]

HAVE ITEM 9.3, CONTINUE A PUBLIC HEARING AND POSSIBLE ACTION ON ORDINANCE NUMBER O-2025-026, APPROVING THE ANNEXATION OF THE KIRK TRACKED, 77.2 ACRES, MORE OR LESS, OF LAND, LOCATED OFF OF FM1660S AND TO ESTABLISH A ZONING OF SF-1, SINGLE-FAMILY,

AND B-2, COMMERCIAL. >> THIS IS THE ANNEXATION REQUEST FOR THE MSA THAT WAS JUST APPROVED. PART OF THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT, THE ZONING WILL BE SF-1 AND B-2, SO WITH THAT SAID, THERE IS A PUBLIC HEARING THAT NEEDS TO BE

HELD. >> THANK YOU, SIR. AT 7:40, WE WILL CONTINUE THE PUBLIC HEARING. IF THERE IS ANYONE WHO WISHES TO SPEAK UP ABOUT THIS ANNEXATION, PLEASE COME FORWARD.

SEEING NO ONE, WE WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 7:40, AND OPEN THIS ITEM UP FOR QUESTIONS OR ACTION BY COUNCIL.

>> YOU OPENED THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 7:40, I DON'T KNOW IF I

HEARD YOU SAY THE TIME? >> YEAH, 7:40.

>> OKAY. >> I WILL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE ORDINANCE NUMBER O-2025-026.

>> MOVED BY COUNCILMEMBER THOMPSON, DO WE HAVE A SECOND?

[00:40:05]

>> SECOND. >> SECOND BY COUNCILMEMBER GORDON. ANY DISCUSSION? HEARING NONE. PLEASE CALL THE VOTE.

>> MOTION PASSES, 7-0. NEXT, WE HAVE ITEM 9.4, CONDUCT A PUBLIC HEARING AND POSSIBLE ACTION ON ORDINANCE NUMBER O-2025-049 APPROVING THE ANNEXATION OF THE PROPERTY KNOWN AS HIGHWAY 130 MIXED-USE, 41.247 ACRES, MORE OR LESS, OF LAND, LOCATED AT THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF COUNTY ROAD 109 AND STATE HIGHWAY 130, AND TO ESTABLISH A BASE ZONING OF MF, MULTIFAMILY, LI, LIGHT INDUSTRIAL, AND GENERAL COMMERCIAL, B-2.

[9.4. Conduct a public hearing and possible action on Ordinance No. O-2025-049 approving the Annexation of the property known as Hwy 130 Mixed Use, 41.247 acres, more or less, of land, located at the northeast corner of CR 109 and SH130 and to establish the base zoning of MF (Multi-Family), LI (Light Industrial) and General Commercial (B-2). (John Byrum) ]

>> GOOD EVENING, COUNCIL, ONCE AGAIN, JOHN BYRUM, MANAGER. THIS IS JUST UNDER 42 ACRES OF LAND AND IN THE DEVELOPED AGREEMENT IT WOULD HAVE A MIXED-USE ZONING OF MF, MULTIFAMILY, LI, LIGHT INDUSTRIAL, AND B-2, GENERAL COMMERCIAL. THERE IS A MAP OF THE PARCELS, WITH THIS, THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT WAS APPROVED BACK IN JULY OF THIS YEAR, AND THE SERVICE EXTENSION REQUEST WAS ALREADY APPROVED FOR WASTEWATER, THEY ARE IN JONAH'S CCN, SO THIS WOULD BE JONAH. THE MSA IS ATTACHED TO THIS ANNEXATION REQUEST, SO IF YOU WANT TO MOVE FORWARD WITH IT, WE WOULD HAVE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT YOU WOULD MOVE TO APPROVE THE MSA THAT IS ASSIGNED BY THE OWNER, AND THEN TO APPROVE THE ORDINANCE NUMBER, MEANING O-2025-049.

>> IN THE SAME MOTION, OR SEPARATE?

>> THEY CAN BE IN THE SAME MOTION. THE MSA NEEDS TO BE MENTIONED FIRST, BEFORE THE ORDINANCE. BUT, THE PROPERTY OWNER SIGNED IT. SO, WE DIDN'T POST IT SEPARATELY. WE JUST ATTACHED IT TO THE ORDINANCE. BUT, JUST TO MAKE IT CLEAR, WE

WANT IT ON THE RECORD. >> OKAY.

>> AND THE APPLICANT IS PRESENT, AND OF COURSE, A PUBLIC HEARING.

>> ALL RIGHT, WE WILL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 7:43 P.M. IF THERE IS ANYONE FROM THE PUBLIC WHO WISHES TO COME UP AND SPEAK REGARDING THIS ANNEXATION OR MSA, PLEASE COME FORWARD.

HEARING AND SEEING NO ONE, WE WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 7:43 P.M. WE WILL OPEN THIS UP FOR QUESTIONS OR ACTION BY

COUNCIL. >> I MAKE A MOTION TO -- BE NOT

GO AHEAD. >> YEAH, GO AHEAD.

>> I MAKE A MOTION TO ACCEPT ORDINANCE OF O-2025-049 --

>> LET ME INTERRUPT YOU. >> OKAY.

>> I THINK WE HAVE TO MAKE THE MOTION IF YOU WANT TO APPROVE THIS, TO APPROVE THE MSA AS ASSIGNED BY THE APPLICANT, AND

TO APPROVE THE ORDINANCE. >> OKAY.

>> YOURS TRULY. >> SO MOVED. IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE

SAYING? >> YES, SIR.

>> ALL RIGHT. >> SECOND.

>> SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER GORDON. ANY DISCUSSION ON THIS ONE? I JUST HAVE A NOTE, IT SEEMS LIKE FOR THE PUBLIC, WE ARE GOING THROUGH THESE PRETTY QUICK ON SOME OF THESE ITEMS, SO FAR, I THINK WE HAVE HAD EACH ONE OF THESE ITEMS ON OUR AGENDA MAY BE NO LESS THAN THREE OR FOUR TIMES, SO I THINK FROM THE COUNCIL'S STANDPOINT, WE SEEM TO BE VERY FAMILIAR WITH THESE ITEMS. ALL RIGHT, PLEASE CALL THE BOAT.

[9.5. Continue a public hearing and consider possible action on Resolution No. R-2025-187 authorizing and creating the HWY 130 Mixed Use Public Improvement District within the City Of Hutto pursuant to Chapter 372, Texas Local Government Code. (Legal)]

>> MOTION PASSES, 7-0. NEXT, ITEM 9.5, CONTINUE A PUBLIC HEARING AND CONSIDER POSSIBLE ACTION ON RESOLUTION NUMBER R-2025-187, AUTHORIZING AND CREATING THE HIGHWAY 130 MIXED-USE PUBLIC IMPROVEMENT DISTRICT WITHIN THE CITY OF HUTTO PURSUANT TO CHAPTER 372, TEXAS LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE. SO, WE WILL CONTINUE THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 7:45 P.M. IF THERE IS ANYONE FROM THE PUBLIC WHO WISHES TO COME UP AND SPEAK REGARDING THIS BID, PLEASE SPEAK UP. SEEING NO ONE, WE WILL

CLOSE. >> SO, YOU HAVE TO USE THE WORD "ADJOURN" FOR PUBLIC HEARING, BECAUSE IT IS REQUIRED BY STATE

LAW. >> THANK YOU. WE WILL ADJOURN THIS PUBLIC HEARING AT 7:45 P.M. THEY COULDN'T JUST MAKE IT CONSISTENT ACROSS EVERYTHING, THEY HAD TO -- ALL RIGHT.

>> WE JUST WANT TO MAKE THE RECORD REFLECT THE STATE LAW.

>> ALL RIGHT, WE WILL OPEN THIS UP FOR QUESTIONS OR ACTION BY

[00:45:04]

COUNCIL. >> MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE RESOLUTION NUMBER R-2025-187 AS PRESENTED.

>> DO WE HAVE A SECOND? >> SECOND.

>> MOTIONED BY COUNCILMEMBER THOMPSON, SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER KING, ANY DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION? HEARING ON. PLEASE CALL THE VOTE.

[10. CONSENT AGENDA ITEMS]

>> COUNCILMEMBER GORDON? >> MAYOR SNYDER AYE.

>> NEXT, WE HAVE CONSENT AGENDA ITEMS, ARE THERE ANY ITEMS THAT COUNCIL WISHES TO PULL? IF NOT, WE WILL ACCEPT A MOTION TO

APPROVE. >> SO MOVED.

>> MOTIONED BY COUNCILMEMBER THOMPSON, DO WE HAVE A SECOND?

>> SECOND. >> SECOND BY COUNCILMEMBER KING. ANY DISCUSSION ON THE APPROVAL OF THE CONSENT AGENDA ITEMS AS PRESENTED? HEARING ON. PLEASE CALL THE VOTE.

[11.1. Consideration and possible action on Resolution No. R-2025-326 authorizing proceeding with issuance of certificates of obligation and further directing the publication of notice of intention to issue City of Hutto, Texas Combination Tax and Revenue Certificates of Obligation. (Alberta Barrett)]

>> MOTION PASSES, 7-0. IS THERE A BALL GAME ON TV TONIGHT? ARE WE TRYING TO GET OUT OF HERE QUICK? ALL RIGHT, NEXT, WE HAVE 11.1, CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION ON RESOLUTION NUMBER R-2025-326, AUTHORIZING PROCEEDING WITH ISSUANCE OF CERTIFICATES OF OBLIGATION AND FURTHER DIRECTING THE PUBLICATION OF NOTICE OF INTENTION TO ISSUE CITY OF HUTTO, TEXAS, COMBINATION TAX AND REVENUE CERTIFICATES OF

OBLIGATION. >> THANK YOU. MAYOR AND COUNCIL, ALBERTA BARRETT, FINANCE DIRECTOR FOR THE RECORD. SO, FOR THIS ITEM TONIGHT, IT IS TO AUTHORIZE THE NOTICE OF INTENT TO ISSUE A CERTIFICATE OF OBLIGATION, SERIES 2026. A COMBINATION TAX AND REVENUE CO FOR A TOTAL OF $22 MILLION FOR THE FOUR WASTEWATER PROJECTS THAT WE HAVE LISTED, THERE. THAT NOTICE WILL INCLUDE THOSE PROJECTS IN IT. ALSO TONIGHT, HERE IS BART FOWLER WITH KIRSTEN HORTON, OUR BOND COUNCIL, AND ANDRE, WITH HILL TOP SECURITIES, OUR FINANCIAL ADVISER. SO, IF THERE IS ANY QUESTIONS, WE CAN ADDRESS THOSE.

>> ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU. QUESTIONS OR ACTION FROM

COUNCIL? >> I MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE RESOLUTION NUMBER R-2025-326 AS PRESENTED.

>> YOU HAVE A SECOND? >> SECOND.

>> MOTIONED BY COUNCILMEMBER THOMPSON, SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER MORRIS. ANY DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION? HEARING ON. PLEASE CALL THE VOTE.

[11.2. Consideration and possible action on Resolution No. R-2025-327 accepting a petition and calling for a public hearing on the creation of the Stromberg Public Improvement District within the City of Hutto, Texas. (Legal)]

>> MOTION PASSES, 7-0. >> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU, MA'AM. NEXT, WE HAVE ITEM 11.2, CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION ON RESOLUTION NUMBER R-2025-327, EXCEPTING A PETITION CALLING FOR A PUBLIC HEARING ON THE CREATION OF THE STROMBERG PUBLIC IMPROVEMENT DISTRICT WITHIN THE

CITY OF HUTTO, TEXAS. >> MAYOR, COUNCIL, SARAH CERVANTES, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF COMMUNITY SERVICES FOR THE CITY OF HUTTO. THIS -- I KEEP GETTING MYSELF CONFUSED, HERE. THIS ITEM, ITEM 9.1, WAS JUST APPROVED FOR THE STROMBERG DEVELOPMENT AND WE DO HAVE A PRESENTATION WITH 13 HERE, TO KIND OF TAKE YOU THROUGH THE PIT ITSELF, DO I HAVE THE CLICKER UP HERE, LAURA? AND I ACTUALLY AM NOT SURE IF THEY ARE ABLE TO SPEAK ON THE ITEM, WHEN IT IS HERE, AND NOT IN PRESENTATION.

>> SO, THIS IS JUST A RESOLUTION TO CALL THE PUBLIC HEARING.

>> OH, PERFECT. >> SO, IT WOULD JUST BE AN OVERVIEW, SO THE COUNCIL WOULD MAKE THEIR DECISION WHETHER TO

CALL IT OR NOT. >> PERFECT. BUT --

>> YES, THANK YOU. >> OKAY, PERFECT. I WILL TURN IT

OVER. >> THEY CAN PRESENT AS LONG AS THEY DON'T TALK MORE THAN FIVE MINUTES.

>> I'LL GIVE THEM MY FIVE MINUTES.

>> GOOD EVENING, MAYOR, COUNCIL, STAFF. RICK ROSENBERG WITH DP FP, CONSULTANTS TO THE DEVELOPER, THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO BE HERE TONIGHT. WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT IT EARLIER TONIGHT, WHERE THE PROJECT IS, WHERE THE PARCEL IS. I DON'T

[00:50:02]

WANT TO REVIEW THAT AGAIN. THERE IS AN APPROVED PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR THE SOUTHERN PORTION OF THE RESIDENTIAL PORTION. AS YOU SEE IN THIS PLAN, THEY WILL BE SLIGHTLY UPDATED AND MODIFIED.

THE BID IS TO COVER THE ENTIRE PARCEL, TARGETED FOR APPROXIMATELY 1300 SINGLE-FAMILY LOTS AND 200 TOWNHOME UNITS, PLUS COMMERCIAL AND MULTIFAMILY, WHICH WILL BE NONASSESSED. WE WILL NOT PUT ANY PIT ASSESSMENTS ON THOSE PARCELS TO ENSURE THEY HAVE THE HIGHEST MARKETABLE USES. FOCUSING ON RESIDENTIAL FOR THE PIT ASSESSMENTS. WE EXPECT TO GENERATE -- WE ARE PROJECTING $5.6 MILLION IN COMMUNITY BENEFIT FEES TO THE CITY. $2.6 MILLION IN ANNUAL AD VALOREM TAXES ONCE THE PROJECT IS BUILT OUT, AND APPROXIMATELY $8.2 MILLION IN ANNUAL TAX REVENUES TO THE SCHOOL DISTRICT, UPON BUILDOUT. SORRY, THIS IS SMALL PRINT. BUT, WE ARE LOOKING AT -- I NEED TO LOOK AT MY HANDOUT, BECAUSE I CAN'T READ THAT. SORRY. ONE SECOND. AT THIS POINT, WE ARE PROJECTING APPROXIMATELY $56 MILLION OF BONDS OVER MULTIPLE PHASES. THERE WILL BE A LOT OF TIME TO FIGURE OUT ALL OF THE PHASING OF THE PROJECT THROUGH THIS SCOPE.

WE ESTIMATE ABOUT $680 MILLION OF FUTURE ASSESSED VALUE IN TODAY'S DOLLARS, FOR THE CITY. TARGETED EQUIVALENT TAX RATE OF ABOUT $.69. WE ARE ASSUMING, AT THIS POINT, EXPECTED AVERAGE HOME PRICES FROM 325,000 FOR TOWNHOMES UP TO $550,000 FOR THE 60 FOOT LOTS. SO, $395,000 FOR THE 40 FOOT LOTS AND $550,000 FOR THE 60 FOOT LOTS. SO, ANNUAL PAYMENTS FOR HOMEOWNERS, ASSUMING CURRENT INTEREST RATES IN THESE TERMS, WILL RANGE FROM $22,140 PER YEAR, TO $39,100 PER YEAR. RIGHT NOW, WE ARE STARTING THE PROCESS, WE ARE NOT ASKING FOR ANY SPECIFIC ASSESSMENTS AT THIS POINT, THERE WILL BE PLENTY OF TIME FOR THE COUNCIL TO REVIEW THAT AND MAKE SPECIFIC INPUT AT THAT TIME BEFORE ANY COMMITMENTS ARE MADE. THIS REALLY JUST HIGHLIGHTS THE VARIOUS TAX REVENUES TO BE GENERATED BY THE PROJECT. WITH THE ASSESSMENT CONVERTED TO AN EQUIVALENT TAX RATE, WE ARE ABOUT $2.85 TOTAL TAX RATE. AND THAT PUTS US BELOW -- REALLY, IT PUTS US EQUAL TO PRAIRIE WINDS. AND SO, MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE COMPETITIVE. ONCE WE GO FORWARD, AND AS OUR CLIENTS START NEGOTIATING WITH BUILDERS, WE WILL GET FEEDBACK AS TO WHAT LEVEL OF EQUIVALENT TAX RATE THAT THEY CAN ACCEPT. HOPEFULLY, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T HAVE TO REDUCE IT, HOPEFULLY THERE IS SOME SLIGHT UPSIDE, BUT EVERYTHING WILL BE REVIEWED WITH THE CITY, AND THEIR STAFF, AND CONSULTANTS, BEFORE ANYTHING IS AGREED UPON. AND WITH THAT, I THINK I DID IT IN ABOUT THREE

MINUTES. >> WOW.

>> SHORTEST TIME, EVER. I AM HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS

YOU MAY HAVE. >> THANK YOU, SIR. ANY QUESTIONS

OR ACTIONS FROM COUNCIL? >> THANK YOU FOR YOUR PRESENTATION. HOW IS THIS. GOING TO ENSURE THAT THE COSTS ARE COVERED BY THE ACTUAL PROPERTY OWNERS, RATHER THAN THE

TAXPAYERS? >> PIS, BY DEFINITION, PID BONDS ONLY HAVE A BEING AGAINST THE PROPERTY, THERE IS STILL A STATE IN BOND DOCUMENTS, AND YOU CAN SPEAK WITH YOUR BOND SUPERVISOR THAT THERE IS NO FINANCIAL, MORAL, OR LEGAL OBLIGATION FOR THE CITY TO MAKE ANY PAYMENTS UNDER THE PID. OUR FIRM HAS BEEN DOING THIS KIND OF WORK FOR 35 YEARS, OVER $17 BILLION FOR THESE BONDS AND WE HAVE NEVER SEEN A CITY HAVE TO WRITE A CHECK. THERE HAS BEEN ABOUT A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN $4 BILLION IN PID BONDS SINCE 2011, THIS IS NOT A BURN IT AT ALL ON ANYBODY UNLESS THEY CHOOSE TO BUY PROPERTY WITHIN THE BOUNDARIES OF THE DISTRICT. IT IS A VOLUNTARY DECISION, WHETHER YOU

BUY OR NOT. >> THANK YOU.

>> ALL RIGHT, DO WE HAVE ANY ACTION FROM COUNCIL?

>> DID WE DO THE PUBLIC HEARING FIRST?

>> NO, THIS IS JUST A RESOLUTION THAT STARTS THE PROCESS.

>> JUST TO REVIEW THE PROCESSES. HOPEFULLY, TONIGHT, YOU SET THE PUBLIC HEARING, THE PUBLIC HEARING WILL START THE CREATION PROCESS, AND THEN WE WILL COME BACK AT A LATER TIME WITH THE ACTUAL ASSESSMENTS AND BOND PROCESS.

>> THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT, I WILL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE RESOLUTION R-2025-327, AS PRESENTED.

[00:55:01]

>> I'LL SECOND. >> MOTIONED BY COUNCILMEMBER GORDON, SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER THOMPSON, ANY DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION? HEARING ON. PLEASE CALL THE

VOTE. >> COUNCILMEMBER MORRIS?

[11.3. Consideration and possible action on Resolution No. R-2025-328 calling for a public hearing on the creation of the Hutto SH130 Tax Increment Reinvestment Zone (TIRZ). (Cheney Gamboa)]

>> AYE. >> MAYOR SNYDER?

>> AYE. >> MOTION PASSES, 7-0. NEXT, ITEM 11.3, CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION ON RESOLUTION NUMBER R-2025-328, CALLING FOR A PUBLIC HEARING ON THE CREATION OF THE HUTTO STATE HIGHWAY 130 TAX INCREMENT REINVESTMENT ZONE.

>> THANK YOU. CHENEY GAMBOA, DIRECTOR OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, THIS CALLS FOR A PUBLIC HEARING, AND CREATING A TIRZ REQUIRES TWO PUBLIC HEARINGS, THIS WOULD BE THE FIRST, THE FIRST ONE IS PLANNED ON NOVEMBER 20TH, THE SECOND ONE ON DECEMBER 4TH, SO THIS IS JUST ADHERING TO THAT PROCESS SO THAT WE CAN ESTABLISH THOSE BEFORE THE END OF THE CALENDAR YEAR, SO WE CAN REALLY MAXIMIZE THE BENEFIT OF THAT, MOVING FORWARD.

>> IF I AM NOT MISTAKEN, I WANT TO SAY THAT WE JUST GOT A NOTICE, OR SOMETHING, ABOUT A GROUNDBREAKING FOR THE TOYOTA DEALERSHIP IN DECEMBER? SO, THIS WILL BE RIGHT, ASSUMING WE APPROVE ALL THIS STUFF, IT WILL HAPPEN RIGHT BEFORE THEY BREAK GROUND, BEFORE THE VALUE STARTS GOING UP?

>> YES. >> ALL RIGHT.

>> THAT'S THE PLAN. >> ALL RIGHT. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR ACTIONS FROM COUNCIL?

>> CHENEY, WHAT IS THE BENEFIT OF THIS TIRZ? I MEAN, IS THE COUNTY PARTICIPATING? WHAT IS THE BENEFIT OF THIS TIRZ?

>> AT THIS TIME, THE CITY IS THE ONLY PARTICIPATING TAXING

JURISDICTION. >> SO, THEN, WHAT IS THE BENEFIT

TO US CREATING THIS? >> SO, TIRZS ARE EFFECTIVELY A TAX DEFERRAL. WHAT HAPPENS IS, WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO CREATE FOR THIS ONE, IS A SPECIFIC ZONE. THE PROPERTY TAXES ARE SET AT THE CREATION YEAR, SO THAT VALUE BECOMES YOUR BASE VALUE. THEN, ANY INCREMENT THAT IS ACHIEVED BY DEVELOPMENT THAT OCCURS AFTER THE TIRZ IS IMPLEMENT IT OR CREATED, THAT IS A TAX DEFERRAL, SO DEPENDING ON WHAT PERCENTAGE THIS COUNCIL DIRECTS TO BE DIVERTED INTO THE TIRZ FUND, TYPICALLY IT IS 50%, BUT THE COUNCIL CAN CHOOSE A DIFFERENT PERCENTAGE, IF THEY WOULD LIKE.

THAT GOES INTO, EFFECTIVELY, ALMOST LIKE A SAVINGS ACCOUNT.

THE EASIEST WAY I CAN EXPLAIN IT FOR THE GENERAL PUBLIC IS LIKE, IF YOU HAVE A VACATION ACCOUNT SET UP AND YOU ARE SAVING FOR A VACATION TO DISNEY WORLD AND YOU ARE PUTTING MONEY IN THERE, YOU CAN ONLY GO TO DISNEY WORLD. SO, EFFECTIVELY WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS, THIS PERCENTAGE OF PROPERTY TAXES IS ONLY ELIGIBLE TO EXPEND FOR IMPROVEMENTS THAT IMPACT THAT ZONE.

>> SO, ONE COULD SAY THAT YOU ARE ESSENTIALLY TYING UP MONEY THAT COULD BE USED ELSEWHERE, FOR JUST THIS ZONE, CORRECT?

>> NO.

SPLIT. 50% WOULD GO -- >> IS IT -- IS IT A 50-50 SPLIT?

>> NO, IT IS WHAT THE COUNCIL WOULD DECIDE IN THE PROJECT AND FINANCING PLANS, WHICH YOU HAVEN'T SEEN, YET. BUT, THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE. SAY THE AREA IS CREATED, AND THE PROJECT AND FINANCING PLAN SAYS, 50% GOES TO THE CITY, OUT OF THE GENERAL FUND, 50% IS A DEDICATED TIRZ FUND TO BE USED AS THE FINANCING PLAN SAYS TO BE USED. SO, WITHIN THE TIRZ BOUNDARIES, OR IT CAN BE ADJACENT TO THE TIRZ, AS LONG AS IT BENEFITS THE TIRZ.

>> I THINK, TO ADDRESS YOUR QUESTION, RATHER THAN ALL OF THE PROPERTY TAX GOING TO THE GENERAL FUND, THAT PORTION, AS DECIDED BY THIS COUNCIL, WOULD GO TOWARD THE TIRZ TO BE USED ONLY IN THAT GEOGRAPHIC AREA OR FOR PROJECTS THAT ONLY DIRECTLY

IMPACT THAT ZONE. >> IT GOES INTO THE TIRZ FUND TO BE USED FOR THE FINANCING PLAN, SO THAT IS THE LAW. THAT IS HOW

IT IS. >> YEAH. I THINK WHAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN SUGGESTED IS, IF WE DIDN'T DO THIS, LET'S SAY IT BROUGHT IN $1 MILLION A YEAR, YOU COULD USE THAT MILLION DOLLARS ANYWAY YOU WANT, NECESSARILY. IF WE DID DO THIS, AND SAID WE HAD TO DO 50%, AND 500,000 WOULD BE A FUND THAT WOULD ONLY BE USED FOR THE PROJECT THAT THE TIRZ COMES UP WITH, BUT THE OTHER 500,000 WOULD GO TO GENERAL REVENUE TO BE USED, TO BE ON THE OTHER SIDE, EITHER WAY, THE COUNCIL IS DECIDING HOW THE MONEY -- I JUST LOOK AT THIS AS A WAY TO MAYBE LOCKBOX SOME MONEY AWAY, AND ONCE IT'S -- I THINK THE BENEFIT THAT I SEE IN THIS IS,

[01:00:01]

RIGHT NOW, IF YOU GENERATE $1 MILLION, YOU CAN ONLY SPEND $1 MILLION. BUT, IF WE SET THE VALUE NOW AND DEVELOPMENT COMES BETWEEN THE ANNEXATION WE JUST DID NORTH OF HERE, ALL OF THE PROJECTS WE HAVE SOUTH OF HERE, IF THE REVENUE STARTS COMING IN AT $1 MILLION PER YEAR, AND WE WANT TO USE HALF OF THAT, WE COULD USE $500,000 TO THEN MULTIPLY THAT BY THE TIRZ BORROWING MONEY THAT IS RECOURSE TO THE TIRZ, AND THEN THEY WOULD USE THAT $500,000 PER YEAR TO PAY THAT DEBT SERVICE AND THEN THE PEOPLE WOULDN'T BE PAYING MORE IN PROPERTY TAXES, THEY WOULD ACTUALLY NOT BE INVOLVED IN THAT, AND THE DISTRICT WOULD BE THE ONE THAT IS ISSUING THE DEBT, PAYING THE DEBT, AND SO, INSTEAD OF THAT MILLION DOLLARS PER YEAR, IN TWO OR THREE YEARS, WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO GET, SAY, $30 MILLION AND YOU COULD GET ANOTHER PROJECT DONE, VERSUS WHAT WE DO NOW, WHICH IS RAISE PEOPLE'S TAXES TO THEN FUND INFRASTRUCTURE ONE ATOM AT A TIME. AND IT COULD ALSO REIMBURSE -- WE HAVE DESIGNED -- THIS IS COMING FROM RON SAINT ANDREW -- WE HAVE DESIGNED THE WEST SIDE, OR IT IS BEING DESIGNED, BUT BY DOING THIS NOW, WE HAVE RAISED PEOPLES WATER RATES IN ANTICIPATION OF RAISING $30 MILLION IN BONDS TO PAY FOR WASTEWATER INFRASTRUCTURE. IF THIS STARTS MAKING MONEY, AT SOME POINT, IT COULD REIMBURSE THE CITY, FOR THE PROJECTS THAT WERE DONE IN THE TIRZ DISTRICT, WHICH THEN COULD BE USED TO EITHER NOT RAISE WATER RATES IN THE FUTURE, OR ACTUALLY REDUCE WATER RATES, BECAUSE THE PEOPLE WILL BE PAYING FOR THAT $30 MILLION, THE BUSINESSES AND THE DEVELOPMENT IN THAT WILL, IS THAT SAFE TO SAY?

>> IT IS SAFE TO SAY, FOR THE RECORD, JAMES ERTZ, CITY MANAGER. IT WOULD BE WASTEWATER, TO BE CLEAR, BECAUSE THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WATER AND WASTEWATER. BUT, YES, THEY ARE ISSUING A DEBT FOR THE AVERY LEG PROJECT.

>> SO -- YEAH, I'VE GOT A COUPLE QUESTIONS. SO, TO ME, THE POWER, I THINK, IN TIRZ, THE WAY I HAVE ALWAYS UNDERSTOOD THEM, IS REALLY BENEFICIAL, WHEN YOU CAN GET OTHER TAXING ENTITIES TO PARTICIPATE, BECAUSE YOU ARE CAPTURING MORE MONEY THAN YOU WOULD OTHERWISE, YOU KNOW, IF A COUNTY IS PUTTING IN A 50-50, THE TIRZ WOULD ALSO BE GETTING MONEY, NOT ONLY FROM THE CITY, BUT FROM THE COUNTY, AS WELL. I HAVE ALWAYS LIKED TIRZS IN THOSE RESPECTS, WHEN YOU HAVE ENTITIES OTHER THAN JUST THE CITY PARTICIPATING, AND ONLY THE CITY IS PARTICIPATING IN THIS ONE, SO THAT WAS A LITTLE BIT OF A HIT FOR ME ON THIS ONE, BUT MAYOR BRINGS UP A REALLY GOOD POINT, AND I WOULD LIKE TO MAYBE ASK SOME CLARIFICATION ON THAT. SO, I HAVE KIND OF UNDERSTOOD IT, THAT YOU CAN'T BORROW MONEY AGAINST THE VALUE IN THE TIRZ, BUT THE WAY THE MAYOR EXPLAINED IT -- AND I HOPE THAT IS RIGHT -- IF YOU GOT ENOUGH VALUE IN THE TIRZ TO BE ABLE TO PAY AT LEAST THE DEBT SERVICE, COULD YOU BORROW AGAINST THAT, AS LONG AS YOU HAVE THE DEBT SERVICE COVERED BY THE PROPERTY COMING

IN? >> SO, I WILL TAKE THIS ONE FOR YOU, JANIE. SO, THE WAY THAT -- AND IT JUST SO HAPPENED TO HAVE

A SLEW OF CONSULTANTS, HERE. >> THIS IS TRUE. WE HAVE A WHOLE TEAM, HERE.

FACE. >> SO, YOU CAN CERTAINLY ISSUE DEBT. THE CHARTERS WOULD BE RESPONSIBLE FOR MAKING THE PAYMENTS. THE WAY THIS WORKS, IS THE TIRZ DOESN'T GENERATE ENOUGH REVENUE TO MAKE THE DEBT SERVICE PAYMENT, THEN THE GENERAL FUND, THE INS PORTION OF OUR TAX RATE, HAS TO MAKE A PAYMENT ON BEHALF OF THE TIRZ. SO, GENERALLY, WHAT YOU SEE IS IT GETS ISSUED, IT FULLY HITS THE INS BECAUSE THERE IS NOT ENOUGH MONEY IN THE TIRZ, YET, TO PAY THE DEBT SERVICE. AND THEN, AS THINGS BUILD -- BECAUSE USUALLY, YOU ARE DOING INFRASTRUCTURE HAD TIME TO GET THINGS TO BUILD -- AS YOU BUILD, THE VALUES INCREASE, THEN THE AMOUNT THE INS PAYS DECREASES AS THE AMOUNT THE TIRZ PAYS INCREASES.

>> OKAY, SO, IT MAY HIT THE GENERAL FUND KIND OF EARLY ON, BUT THEN DECREASE, OR YOU JUST WAIT TO TAKE ON THE DEBT --

>> OR, YOU WAIT. OR, YOU CASH FLOW.

>> OKAY. >> IN A CASH FLOW SITUATION, GETTING TO THE MAYOR'S EXAMPLE EARLIER, YOU ARE GETTING $500,000 IN, THEN YOU AUTHORIZE $500,000 IN PROJECTS, THAT IS CASH FLOW. IF YOU ARE GOING TO DO THE ISSUE OF THE DEBT, WHEN YOU ARE GETTING $500,000 IN, YOU ARE LIKE, OKAY, HOW MUCH DEBT CAN WE ISSUE FOR A $500,000 SERVICE RATE?

>> YEAH, WHICH CAN BE MORE, CONSIDERABLY MORE.

>> YOU WELL, IT WOULD BE MORE THAN $500,000.

>> FOR THE RECORD, I DO NOT WANT US TO GO OUT -- OTHER THAN THIS WASTEWATER PROJECT -- I DON'T WANT US TO GO OUT AND BUILD ROADS AND THE KID -- AND GET PAID LATER BECAUSE THAT DOESN'T REDUCE PEOPLE'S TAXES. WE HAVE TOYOTA THAT IS GETTING A BREAK GROUND AS IT IS, WE HAVE THE PROJECT TO THE SOUTH THAT ARE READY TO BREAK GROUND AS THINGS ARE. AND WE HAVE THE EPITOME DEVELOPMENT AS PROJECTED, AND WE HAVE THE PEARL ESTATES PROJECT.

ALL OF THESE PROJECTS ARE COMING WITHOUT ANY IMPROVEMENTS. SO, TO ME, IF WE SIT BACK AND BE PATIENT JUST A LITTLE BIT, WHEN

[01:05:02]

THOSE PROJECTS ARE GOING IN TWO OR THREE YEARS, THAT IS WHEN I SEE THE CASH COMING IN AS THE SMART PEOPLE CAN TELL US, YOU CAN NOW GO OUT AND BORROW WHATEVER AMOUNT OF MONEY BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO DEFAULT BACK ON THE TAXPAYERS BECAUSE NO ONE THERE IS ASKING FOR THE INFRASTRUCTURE.

>> YEAH, BECAUSE THEN IT COULD HIT THE TIRZ AND THE TIRZ COULDN'T BORROW AGAINST IT. OKAY.

>> WHAT WE HAVE ALSO SEEN WITH OUR TIRZ THREE, OUR MEGA SITE TIRZ, OUR DEVELOPMENT WILL PUT IN INFRASTRUCTURE, IF THEY CAN GET THAT PROJECT INTO THE PROJECT AND FINANCING PLAN, SO THAT IS ANOTHER WAY THAT YOU CAN ENCOURAGE DEVELOPERS TO BRING IN PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE, ABOVE AND BEYOND MAYBE WHAT THEY NEED FOR JUST THEIR SITE, THEN REIMBURSE THEM LATER, AS LONG AS THAT AGREEMENT IS ADOPTED INTO THE PROJECT AND FINANCING PLAN, AS

WELL. >> AND I DID MEET WITH A COUNTY COMMISSIONER ON THIS PROJECT, AND A COUNTY ENGINEER, AND THEY ARE WANTING TO SEE MORE INFORMATION BEFORE IT GETS BROUGHT TO THE COUNTY. FOR THE COMMISSION TO VOTE ON IT.

>> SO, IT'S NOT A HARD KNOW? >> IF I'M BEING HONEST, I THINK OUR COMMISSIONER IS A HARD NO, BUT THAT MIGHT GO AWAY, BUT I AM OUT OF OFFICE IN 2 1/2 YEARS, SO THERE IS A POTENTIAL THEY WOULD STILL SAY YES. IS JUST A PERSONALITY THING, I THINK, THERE IS JUST OPPORTUNITY FOR OTHER PEOPLE IN THE COUNTY TO SEE THIS. THE PITCH I MADE TO THEM WAS, RIGHT NOW, EVERYBODY IS BORROWING MONEY, RAISING TAXES, TO FUND DEVELOPMENT FOR FUTURE GROWTH. I LOOK AT TIRZ AS A WAY FOR DEVELOPMENT TO PAY FOR DEVELOPMENT, AND FOR THE MONEY TO BE BASICALLY LOCKBOX, A PORTION OF IT, TO THEN GO TOWARD THAT, AND IF PEOPLE USE TIRZS MORE OFTEN -- AND I THINK THEY HAVE ONLY HAD THREE AT THE COUNTY LEVEL -- I THINK IT IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO SEE A LOT OF DEVELOPMENT DONE, BUT THE DEVELOPERS, AS YOU SAID, SOME OF THEM ARE PUTTING IN INFRASTRUCTURE NOW, LIKE YOU SAID EPITOME IS BEING BUILT AT THE FRONTAGE ROAD, SO MAYBE THEY WILL BUILD NOW AND BE REIMBURSED LATER, BUT HAVE THE DEVELOPERS FUND THIS INFRASTRUCTURE, AND GO, "IF YOU ARE SO GOOD, WHEN WE START GENERATING TAXES, WE WILL GIVE YOU THE MONEY BACK AFTER YOU BUILD IT." IT IS AN IDEA THAT I THINK WILL CATCH ON MORE AS TIRZ DOESN'T BECOME SUCH A SCARY ACRONYM.

>> OKAY. I MEAN, THOSE TWO THINGS MAKE ME FEEL BETTER ABOUT IT. I JUST WASN'T SURE. AND I KNOW YOU AND I KIND OF DISCUSSED IT EARLIER AND THAT KIND OF HELPED, SO --

>> DOES THAT NEED TO BE WRITTEN INTO THIS, THAT THE COUNTY COULD THEN -- ONCE WE CREATE THIS, THE COUNTY COULD COME BACK AND JOIN

IN? >> I BELIEVE --

>> OR, IS THAT JUST THE PROCESS FOR IT?

>> UNDER THIS STATUTE, WE GIVE NOTICE TO THE COUNTY, BUT WE HAVE TO HAVE A PROJECT AND FINANCING PLAN. THAT IS THE KEY BEFORE THE COUNTY CAN PARTICIPATE.

>> POTENTIALLY. >> YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO HAVE A PROJECT AND FINANCING PLAN. TYPICALLY, YOU HAVE IT WHEN YOU HAVE YOUR PUBLIC HEARING, SO THE PUBLIC KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE GOING TO COMMENT ON. SO, ON THIS PARTICULAR TIRZ, ALL YOU HAVE IS THE OUTLINE OF THE AREA. DON'T HAVE ANY SPECIFIC PROJECTS, OR A PROJECT AND FINANCING PLAN, AS REQUIRED BY LAW, WHICH WE NEED

TO HAVE. >> SO, THAT WILL COME?

>> YES, YEAH. >> TX P, OUR TIRZ CONSULTANT, THEY DID OUR TIRZ NUMBER THREE, SO THEY HAVE EXECUTED AN AGREEMENT WITH US TO ENGAGE AND GET WHAT IS REQUIRED TO ESTABLISH THE TIRZ BY THE END OF THE YEAR SO WE CAN LOCK IN THIS YEAR'S BASE VALUE SO WE CAN MAXIMIZE THE INCREMENT AND BENEFIT OF THAT, SO WE WILL HAVE EVERYTHING READY WHEN WE NEED EVERYTHING READY IN ORDER TO HIT THAT DEADLINE.

>> I THINK THAT SHOULD BE IMPORTANT TO NOTE, TOO, THE EDC IS THE ONE THAT IS PAYING FOR THE FIRST PART OF THIS.

>> CORRECT. >> AND THEN, IT IS UP TO THE COUNCIL TO APPROVE THE EDC TO FINISH IT UP. SO, AGAIN, ALL OF THIS IS BEING DONE BY THE VERY PEOPLE WHO ARE PUSHING ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT. I WAS ARGUING IN AN EFFORT TO HAVE THE CONSTRUCTION PUT IN, NOT AT THE COST TO THE HOMEOWNERS, BUT TO THE COST OF THE PEOPLE THAT THAT IS WHAT THEIR JOB IS, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR ACTION FOR THIS ITEM?

>> MOTION TO APPROVE RESOLUTION R-2025-328, AS PRESENTED.

>> SECOND. >> MOTIONED BY COUNCILMEMBER PORTERFIELD, SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER KING. ANY OTHER DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION? HEARING ON. PLEASE CALL THE

VOTE. >> MAYOR SNYDER?

>> AYE. >> COUNCILMEMBER GORDON?

[11.4. Consideration and possible action on Resolution No. R-2025-329 approving the submittal of an application to the Texas Historical Commission's Undertold Marker Program for a Texas Historical Marker in the City of Hutto. (John Byrum)]

>> AYE. >> MOTION PASSES, 7-0. NEXT, WE HAVE 11.4, CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION ON RESOLUTION NUMBER R-2025-329, APPROVING THE SUBMITTAL OF AN APPLICATION TO THE TEXAS HISTORICAL COMMISSIONS UNDER TOLD MARKER PROGRAM FOR A TEXAS HISTORICAL MARKER IN THE CITY OF HUTTO.

>> MAYOR, COUNCIL, FOR THE RECORD, JOHN BYRUM, PLANNING MANAGER. THIS IS AN APPLICATION FOR THE TEXAS HISTORICAL

[01:10:02]

COMMISSION UNDER TOLD HISTORICAL MARKER, THEY ARE NOW ACCEPTING APPLICATIONS. THERE IS A SMALL GAP, A WINDOW FOR WHEN THEY ACCEPT THESE APPLICATIONS FOR ANYONE THROUGHOUT THE STATE OF TEXAS, AND WE ARE CURRENTLY IN THAT WINDOW RIGHT NOW. THIS UNDER TOLD HISTORICAL MARKER PROGRAM IS INTENDED TO ADDRESS HISTORICAL GAPS, PROMOTE DIVERSITY IN TOPICS, AND PROACTIVELY DOCUMENT SIGNIFICANT, UNDERREPRESENTED SUBJECTS, OR UNTOLD STORIES. THERE ARE CERTAIN CRITERIA IS THAT THEY HAVE FOR THAT APPLICATION AND THE SHILOH BLACK CEMETERY WOULD FIT INTO THAT APPLICATION, SO, THAT IS LOCATED HERE IN HUTTO, THAT WAS 1 OF 3 CEMETERIES THAT WERE OPERATING IN THE LATE 19TH CENTURY, DURING A TIME OF SEGREGATION, BACK IN THE LATE 1800S. HERE IS A PHOTO OF THE CEMETERY. CITY OF HUTTO DID PREVIOUSLY APPLIED, BACK IN 2023, BUT WE WERE DENIED, UPON FURTHER INVESTIGATION, THC DID CONFIRM THAT IT WAS NOT NECESSARILY BECAUSE OF ANYTHING IN THE APPLICATION BASED ON, YOU KNOW, THE QUALITY OF THE APPLICATION ITSELF, BUT RATHER BECAUSE THEY GET HUNDREDS OF APPLICATIONS THROUGHOUT, YOU KNOW, THE TIME WHEN YOU CAN APPLY, AND THEY ONLY DO 15. SO, THAT IS WHY WE KIND OF GOT DENIED. THEY ENCOURAGED THE CITY OF HUTTO TO CONSIDER REAPPLYING FOR, YOU KNOW, ALL OF THE FUTURE YEARS, TO COME. AND ALSO, SUGGESTED TO COME AND APPLY FOR A MORE GENERIC PLAQUE, INSTEAD OF HAVING MORE OF THE HISTORY OF THE PLAQUE, THIS WOULD JUST BE KIND OF THE NAME AND DATE IT IS ESTABLISHED. BUT, TO GO AFTER THAT ONE, AND THEN YOU CAN STILL APPLY FOR, YOU KNOW, THIS OTHER ONE, AND FOR THE SIMPLER PLAQUES, YOU ARE NOT LIMITED TO A CERTAIN TIME. YOU HAVE QUITE A FEW MONTHS YOU CAN DO. AND THERE IS NOT A LIMIT WITH THC ON HOW MUCH THEY CAN APPROVE, UNLIKE THE OTHER ONE. WITH THAT SAID, THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION DID VOTE FOR -0 TO RECOMMEND TO THE CITY COUNCIL TO GO AHEAD AND SEND IN THAT APPLICATION FOR THE 2025 UNTOLD MARKER PROGRAM AND THEY ARE JUST IN THE PROCESS OF FIGURING OUT THE NEXT STEPS OF WHO WOULD OWN THE PROPERTY. IF YOU REMEMBER, WE HAVE THE DEED IN YOUR PACKET THERE THAT DATES BACK TO 1903, BUT GEORGETOWN TITLE DID A SEARCH AND WE CAN FIND AN OWNER. SO, WITH THAT BEING SAID, THE APPLICATION DEADLINE IS NOVEMBER 15TH.

>> THANK YOU, SIR. QUESTIONS OR ACTION FROM COUNCIL?

>> I WILL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE RESOLUTION NUMBER

R-2025-329, AS PRESENTED. >> SECOND.

>> I HAVE A QUESTION. >> COUNCILMEMBER THOMPSON, SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER GORDON. COUNCILMEMBER GORDON?

>> WHEN YOU SAY THE OWNER, YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THE OWNER OF

THE CEMETERY? >> CORRECT, YEAH.

>> AREN'T THERE -- I HAVE LOOKED AT THIS PREVIOUSLY -- AREN'T THERE STATUTES WHERE A CITY CAN TAKE -- IF YOU CAN'T FIND THE OWNERSHIP, THERE IS SOME STATE STATUTES THAT SAY THE CITY CAN TAKE OVER THAT OWNERSHIP, IS THAT A TRUE

STATEMENT, OR? >> WE DID A MEMO ON THAT, AND THEN THE COUNCIL AUTHORIZED US TO RELEASE IT TO THE PUBLIC, SO THERE ARE VARIOUS WAYS A NONPROFIT GROUP COULD TAKE OVER

THIS CEMETERY. >> OKAY.

>> THE CITY COULD TAKE IT OVER. WE PUT ALL OF THAT IN THAT MEMO, AND WE WILL RESEND IT TO COUNCIL.

>> THAT MEMO SHOULD BE INCLUDED IN YOUR PACKET, AS WELL.

>> OKAY, THANK YOU. >> THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE OWNERSHIP ORIGINALLY, IT WAS ORIGINALLY DEEDED OVER TO, LIKE, A CEMETERY GROUP, WHO KIND OF JUST DISSOLVED OUT, AND EVERYONE DIED. IT WAS, LIKE, 100 YEARS AGO. SO, THAT'S KIND OF HOW IT FELL INTO QUESTIONABLE OWNERSHIP. SO, YEAH, THE MEMO IS VERY DETAILED ON KIND OF WHAT STEPS THE CITY CAN PARTICIPATE

IN. >> I HAVE BRIEF MEMORY OF THAT,

THANK YOU. >> THE OTHER QUESTION I HAD -- OH, ON THE -- SO, THOUGH -- I GUESS, THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION SUGGESTED THAT WE HAVE A LESS DETAILED MARKER? I

DON'T UNDERSTAND. >> NO, THAT WAS THE TEXAS HISTORICAL COMMISSION. SO, NOT HPC. THEY RECOMMENDED BECAUSE THAT FACT, THERE ARE MORE OF THEM BUT THERE IS NO LIMIT TO HOW MANY THEY WERE ACTUALLY HAND OUT, SO THC WAS RECOMMENDING THAT WE CAN, AT LEAST IN THE MEANTIME, GO AFTER THAT TO HAVE A PLAQUE OUT THERE. THE ONE WE ARE APPLYING FOR GOES INTO MORE

DETAIL. >> OKAY, SO WE ARE DOING BOTH?

>> IT'S MORE THE HISTORY OF IT. THAT IS WHAT THE COUNCIL WAS DIRECT. THE OTHER PLAQUE APPLICATION, I WANT TO STAY IT STARTS IN MARCH OF 2026, SO IF THEY APPLY, WE WILL KNOW IN FEBRUARY 2026 IF WE ARE ACCEPTED OR NOT, AND THEN THE APPLICATION FOR THAT OTHER ONE IS FOR MARCH THROUGH MAY OF 2026.

[01:15:06]

>> I WOULD THINK THE CITIZENS IN GENERAL -- MAYBE I AM SPEAKING OUT OF PLACE HERE -- WOULD WANT THE DETAILED HISTORY? OR, MAYBE THERE ARE HOOPS, DIFFICULT HOOPS TO GO THROUGH TO GET THAT, SOMETHING IN THE INTERIM -- BUT, I WOULD LIKE TO PURSUE THAT, AS WELL. OR, I THINK THE CITIZENS WOULD.

>> AND I DID WANT TO ADD, WE DID SOME FURTHER RESEARCH AND FOUND OUT THAT THE SHILOH BLACK CEMETERY IN 2022, RECEIVED A HISTORIC TEXAS CEMETERY DESIGNATION FROM THE TEXAS HISTORICAL COMMISSION. AND I HAVE THAT IT IS CEMETERY NUMBER W AND -- WNZ-03 AND WE CAN INCLUDE THAT IN OUR APPLICATION.

>> THANK YOU. >> JOHN, THANK YOU FOR FINDING THIS AND GETTING THIS TO US. IF THIS PASSES TONIGHT, DO WE ALREADY HAVE IT SITUATED ON STAFF, WHO WOULD SEND IN THAT APPLICATION? ARE WE CHECKING TO MAKE SURE THAT WE GET ANY SORT OF STATUS UPDATES ON THAT? DO WE KNOW THAT PROCESS?

>> SO, I HAVE BEEN WORKING ON THE APPLICATION, SO BASICALLY, IT IS READY TO GO. I JUST NEED, YOU KNOW, THE APPROVAL BY COUNCIL AND WE WILL GET IT IN BEFORE THE NOVEMBER 15TH DEADLINE. AS I SAID, WE WOULD KNOW IN FEBRUARY 2026, IF WE GET

IT OR NOT. >> OKAY.

>> SO, WE HAVE TO WAIT A FEW MONTHS FOR AN UPDATE.

>> AND I THINK THAT IS ESSENTIAL, BECAUSE I KNOW THERE ARE A LOT OF GROUPS WITHIN HUTTO THAT ARE GOING TO LOOK AT THIS ITEM AND SEE, YOU KNOW, WHAT THE RESOLUTION IS, OR THE OUTCOME OF THIS. SO, I THINK THIS COULD BRING, POTENTIALLY, IF IT PASSES, A LOT OF JOY AND A LOT OF APPRECIATION TO A LOT OF RESIDENCE OF HUTTO. SO, AGAIN, GREAT WORK ON THIS AND THANK YOU FOR BRINGING THIS UP. AND KEEP ON WITH THINGS LIKE THIS. THIS

IS GREAT. >> THANK YOU, SIR. PLEASE CALL

THE VOTE? >> COUNCILMEMBER GORDON?

[11.5. Consideration and possible action on Resolution No. R-2025-330 regarding the location of the Hutto Independent School District's (HISD) future Bus Barn on Highway 685. (City Council) (Part 1 of 2)]

>> AYE. >> MAYOR SNYDER?

>> AYE. >> MOTION PASSES, 7-0. NEXT, ITEM 11.5, CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION ON RESOLUTION NUMBER R-2025-330, REGARDING THE LOCATION OF THE HUTTO INDEPENDENT SCHOOL DISTRICT, HISD'S FUTURE BUS BARN ON HIGHWAY 685. AND WE HAVE A PUBLIC COMMENT. GARY CASO?

KOSOVO, SORRY. >> THIS IS MY FIRST TIME. GO

EASY. >> WE WILL BE GENTLE.

>> SO, GARY KOSOVO. I SERVED AS A BOY SCOUT, I SERVED AS A U.S.

MARINE, I HAVE SERVED AS A NURSE, NOW I SERVE AS A FATHER, OKAY? WHILE A SINGLE LARGE FACILITY MIGHT SEEM EFFICIENT ON PAPER, THE PRACTICAL REALITY IS THAT HUTTO'S RAPIDLY GROWING INFRASTRUCTURE THEY RESIDUAL DEPOT STRATEGY. THE ADDED EFFICIENCY FROM THESE REDUCED TRAVEL TIMES IN FUEL SAVINGS COMBINED WITH THE SIGNIFICANT SAFETY ADVANTAGES OF DISTRIBUTED TRAFFIC AND OPERATIONAL REDUNDANCY MAKE A SECOND BUS PARKED HERE A SOUND OF THE STRUCTURE INVESTMENT FOR CITY OF HUTTO AND HUTTO ISD. A DUAL DEPOT STRATEGY FOR BUSES YIELD SIGNIFICANT BENEFITS BY FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGING HOW THE FLEET OPERATES. THE PRIMARY MECHANISM OF THESE BENEFITS IS THE REDUCTION IN DEAD AHEAD MILES, THAT IS THE DISTANCE A BUS TRAVELS WITHOUT STUDENTS IN IT, IN CASE YOU DIDN'T KNOW THAT. I DIDN'T, UNTIL TODAY. FUEL COST BENEFITS -- BY PLACING A SECOND BUS BARN CLOSER TO THE CENTRAL SERVICE AREAS, THE HUTTO ISD CAN EXPECT SUBSTANTIAL SAVINGS. YOU CAN REDUCE DEADHEAD MILES, SO IF YOU DON'T HAVE STUDENTS IN THE BUS, NOT VERY EFFICIENT, RIGHT? LOWER FUEL CONSUMPTION. SCHOOL BUSES ARE VERY LARGE. HEAVY VEHICLES WITH POOR FUEL EFFICIENCY, SHORTENING THEIR ROUTES EVEN BY A FEW MILES PER DAY DIRECTLY REDUCES TOTAL VOLUME OF FUEL PURCHASED BY THIS DISTRICT. YOU HAVE REDUCED VEHICLE MAINTENANCE, LESS DISTANCE TRAVELED, ALSO MEANS LESS WEAR AND TEAR ON THE FLEET, FEWER OIL CHANGES, TIRE ROTATIONS, BRAKE JOBS, ET CETERA. WHILE NOT A DIRECT FUEL SAVINGS, THAT MAKES THE DUAL DEPOT SYSTEMS MORE FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE. FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE. I TOLD YOU, I'M NERVOUS, I'M SO SORRY. ALSO, YOU HAVE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS, RIGHT? GREENHOUSE GASES, BREAKS DUST, ALL OF THAT KIND OF STUFF.

SO, WE ARE GOOD ON THAT, RIGHT? YEAH, OKAY. SO, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. I HOPE THIS STATEMENT SPARKS THE SOLUTION CENTERS OF EACH OF YOU. WE ARE ONE CITY, AND AS ONE CITY, THERE IS NO REASON FOR THE ISD AND THE CITY COUNCIL TO BE AT ODDS. IT SHOULD BE, RATHER, WORKING AS A PARTNERSHIP TO ENSURE THE SAFETY AND EDUCATION OF ITS FUTURE. NOW, IN CASE THERE IS SOME

[01:20:02]

LEGALITIES I DON'T KNOW ABOUT -- I AM KIND OF IGNORANT TO WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT WITH ALL OF THIS -- THERE IS A CASE WITH AUSTIN INDEPENDENT SCHOOL DISTRICT VERSUS CITY OF SUNSET VALLEY THAT IS AYE. TWO. THE TEXAS SUPREME COURT HELD THAT THE CITY COULD NOT USE ZONING POWERS TO WHOLLY EXCLUDE A FACILITY, IN THAT CASE, ESSENTIALLY AUTHORIZED FACILITY THAT INCLUDED A BUS GARAGE AND MAINTENANCE CENTER, FROM WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES. THE REASONING, THE COURT REASONED THAT THE TEXAS CONSTITUTION DIRECTS THE LEGISLATURE TO ESTABLISH AN EFFICIENT SYSTEM OF PUBLIC SCHOOLS. WE REALLY DON'T HAVE ONE RIGHT NOW, DO WE? BECAUSE KIDS HAVE TO TRAVEL OVER THE TRAIN TRACKS EACH AND EVERY DAY. IT TOOK ME, I DON'T KNOW, 30 MINUTES JUST TO GET FROM 1560 SOUTH CREEKSIDE PARK -- IT IS LITERALLY ACROSS THE STREET. I HAD TO TAKE THE TOURS ALL THE WAY AROUND JUST TO GET HERE. WHY? THERE IS A TRAIN. IMAGINE IN THE MORNING WHEN THE KIDS ARE TRYING TO GET TO SCHOOL. HOW MANY ACCIDENTS HAVE HAPPENED ON 79? HOW MANY TIMES HAVE POLICE OFFICERS GOTTEN INTO ACCIDENTS, GOING TO CALLS? WEIRD. ANYWAY, THAT'S MY TIME. COOL. THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU, SIR. IF THERE ARE NO OBJECTIONS FOR THE COUNCIL, I WOULD LIKE TO MOVE THIS ITEM TO EXECUTIVE SESSION, BECAUSE OF

PENDING LEGAL ISSUES. >> AND IT WOULD BE UNDER TEXAS GOVERNMENT CODE 551.071 CONSULTATION WITH ATTORNEY?

>> THAT ONE, YES. >> IT ASKS LEGAL QUESTIONS RELATING TO THE CASE THAT WAS MENTIONED IN THIS PARTICULAR

RESOLUTION. >> FOR YOUR INFORMATION, I RECEIVED SOME TEXT MESSAGES. NOT DIRECTLY, BUT SOMEWHAT VEILED.

[12.1. Presentation and possible action regarding the City of Hutto Human Resources Audit. (City Council)]

ALL RIGHT, WE WILL MOVE THAT TO EXECUTIVE SESSION. OTHER BUSINESS. 12.1, PRESENTATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION REGARDING THE CITY OF HUTTO HUMAN RESOURCES AUDIT.

>> GOOD EVENING, MAYOR, COUNCIL, SARAH GLASSER OF LLOYD GOSLING FOR THE RECORD. I WOULD LIKE TO SHARE FINDINGS FROM THE HUMAN RESOURCES AUDIT, WHICH COUNCIL REQUESTED BACK IN AUGUST OF THIS YEAR. MY FIRM WAS HIRED TO REVIEW CERTAIN CITY POLICIES AND TO CONDUCT AN AUDIT INTO HOW THE POLICIES ARE IMPLEMENTED, HOW THEY ARE ENFORCED, AND THE CITY'S RECORDKEEPING, WITH RESPECT TO THOSE. I HAVE A NUMBER OF SLIDES THAT I WILL RUN THROUGH, I WILL TAKE QUESTIONS AT THE END, IF COUNCIL PREFERS.

BUT, ALSO FEEL FREE TO INTERRUPT ME AND ASK QUESTIONS AS I GO THROUGH, AS WELL. BACKGROUND, AUGUST OF THIS YEAR, COUNCIL REQUESTED AN AUDIT OF THE THREE CATEGORIES THAT ARE ON THIS SCREEN AND I SAY "CATEGORIES," BECAUSE PAID TIME OFF IS A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT POLICIES THAT THE CITY HAS. SICK TIME POLICY, PARENTAL LEAVE,, TIME, ALL OF THOSE THINGS FALL UNDER THE UMBRELLA OF PAID TIME OFF. I WAS ASKED ALSO TO LOOK INTO THE CITY'S POLICY RELATED TO COMPENSATORY TIME FOR EXEMPT EMPLOYEES. AND REMOTE WORK POLICIES, AS WELL. IN CONNECTION WITH THAT REQUEST, COUNCIL APPROVED AUDIT OF FIVE DIFFERENT CITY DEPARTMENTS, THEY ARE LISTED ON THIS SCREEN AND THEY INCLUDE CITY MANAGER'S OFFICE, COMMUNITY AND CULTURE DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, ENGINEERING, AND PARKS AND RECREATION. I UNDERSTAND THAT COUNCIL WAS INVOLVED IN THE DECISION TO PICK THOSE DEPARTMENTS, AND THOSE ARE THE ONES WHO WE SPECIFICALLY FOCUS OUR TIME ON. I SPENT -- I KNOW, Y'ALL HAVE GONE SO QUICKLY THROUGH ALL OF YOUR ITEMS TONIGHT, AND I HATE TO BE THE PERSON THAT THROWS YOU OFF OF YOUR GROOVE, BUT WHEN I AM PRESENTING FINDINGS FROM AN INVESTIGATION OR AN AUDIT, I TRIED TO SPEND TIME ON THE FRONT AND TELLING YOU WHAT I DID, SO YOU HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING OF ALL OF THE ROCKS THAT WE PICKED UP. AND THE THINGS THAT WE DID, SO THAT HOPEFULLY, AS I AM GOING THROUGH FINDINGS, YOU WILL FEEL

THAT IT WAS A THOROUGH WORK. >> YOU HURRY IT UP? JUST SO YOU

CAN TAKE YOUR TIME. >> SAY IT AGAIN, PLEASE?

>> WE HURRY IT UP SO YOU CAN TAKE YOUR TIME, IT'S ALL FOR

YOU. >> I AM SURE SOMEBODY ELSE FEELS

[01:25:01]

THE SAME WAY.

THE PROCESS, THAT WE WENT THROUGH. FIRST AND FOREMOST, WE ASKED FOR COPIES OF ALL OF THE WRITTEN POLICIES, PERSONNEL POLICIES, THAT THE CITY HAS THAT PERTAIN TO THE THREE CATEGORIES THAT WERE ON THE PRIOR SLIDE. WE HAVE REVIEWED ALL OF THOSE. WE ALSO LOOKED AT ALL OF THE CITY'S SOP, STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURES, THAT THEY IMPLEMENT IN CONNECTION WITH THE POLICY.

SO, COUNCIL APPROVES THE PERSONNEL POLICIES, AND THEN CITY MANAGEMENT RIGHTS SOPS IN SOME INSTANCES, TO HELP IMPLEMENT THOSE POLICIES. SO, WE REVIEWED THOSE. WE CONDUCTED INTERVIEWS WITH IRENE AND CHRISTIANA SPENCER, SO HUMAN RESOURCES DEPARTMENT EMPLOYEES. AND WE ASKED THEM QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW THE HUMAN RESOURCES DEPARTMENT IMPLEMENTS THE POLICIES, WHAT THEIR ROLE IS WITH RESPECT TO HOW THE DEPARTMENTS IMPLEMENT THE POLICIES AND WHAT RESPONSIBILITIES HR HAS WITH RESPECT TO THAT, WHAT RESPONSIBILITY HR HAS WITH RESPECT TO APPROVING CERTAIN THINGS THE POLICIES MIGHT PERMIT. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU HAVE A PAID TIME OFF POLICY, TO WHAT EXTENT IS HR INVOLVED IN APPROVING THAT POLICY? WE ALSO ASKED QUESTIONS ABOUT THE TIMEKEEPING SYSTEM AND HOW TIME OFF IS RECORDED IN THE TIMEKEEPING SYSTEM, HOW IT IS -- WELL, RECORDED ON THE FRONT END WHEN IT IS EARNED OR ACCRUED AND RECORDED ON THE BACKEND WHEN IT IS USED. SO, WE ASK QUESTIONS RELATED TO THAT. WE ALSO CONDUCTED INTERVIEWS WITH EACH OF THE DIRECTORS OF THE FIVE DEPARTMENTS THAT WERE SELECTED, AND WE ASKED THEM VERY SIMILAR QUESTIONS TO WHAT WE ASKED HUMAN RESOURCES, ALTHOUGH THEY WERE TAILORED TO, WHAT DO YOU DO, AS THE DIRECTOR OF THE DEPARTMENT? WE ALSO ASKED THEM QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW THEY INTERACT WITH HR, FOR THE PURPOSE OF CONFIRMING THE STATEMENTS THAT HR GAVE US, SO WE DO KIND OF HAVE A CROSS CONFIRMATION WITH RESPECT TO THAT. AND WE ASK THEM HOW WE IMPLEMENT THE POLICIES IN THEIR SPECIFIC DEPARTMENT, AND WE ALSO ASKED THEM WHETHER THEY HAD ANY CONCERNS FROM OTHER DEPARTMENTS. SO, WE WERE TALKING TO THEM ABOUT THEIR DEPARTMENT, AND ABOUT THE PEOPLE THAT THEY WORK WITH. THEN, WE CONDUCTED INTERVIEWS WITH EMPLOYEES IN THE DEPARTMENTS THAT WE SELECTED, AND WE AIMED FOR 2 TO 3 EMPLOYEES PER DEPARTMENT, BUT SOME OF THE DEPARTMENTS WERE SMALL. SO WITH RESPECT TO THOSE ONES, WE SPOKE TO ONLY ONE PERSON. THE POINT OF THOSE INTERVIEWS WAS TO SEE HOW THE POLICIES ARE IMPLEMENTED FROM THE EMPLOYEE'S PERSPECTIVE, WHAT UNDERSTANDING DO THE EMPLOYEES HAVE OF THE POLICY? HOW DID THEY UNDERSTAND IT TO BE IMPLEMENTED? HOW DID THEY UNDERSTAND IT TO BE APPLIED TO THEM? AND THEN, OF COURSE, WE ALSO ASKED THEM QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW, PRACTIC SPEAKING, IT WORKS, AND WE DID THAT TO UNDERSTAND OURSELVES, BUT ALSO TO CONFIRM THE THINGS THAT THE DEPARTMENT SAID TO US AND THAT HR SAID TO US, SO THERE IS KIND OF LIKE A MULTILEVEL CONFIRMATION INVOLVED IN SPEAKING TO EMPLOYEES. I ALSO SPOKE WITH CITY MANAGER TO ASK HIM QUESTIONS ABOUT THE PURPOSE BEHIND THE POLICIES, TO THE EXTENT HE WAS INVOLVED IN THEIR CREATION, AND HOW THE POLICIES -- HOW HE IMPLEMENTS THE POLICIES, AS WELL. LET'S SEE.

FINALLY -- AND THIS WAS NOT ON MY SLIDE -- BUT, FINALLY, WE REQUESTED TIMEKEEPING DOCUMENTS FROM HUMAN RESOURCES, SO THE EXTENT THAT AN EMPLOYEE SAID IN AN INTERVIEW, "I TOOK VACATION ON THIS DAY," OR, "I USED COMP TIME ON THIS DAY," WE ACTUALLY ASKED FOR TIMEKEEPING RECORDS TO CONFIRM WHETHER IT WAS RECORDED IN THE SYSTEM IN A WAY THAT THE EMPLOYEE HAD DESCRIBED THAT IT WAS DONE. AND WE DIDN'T DO IT FOR EVERY SINGLE EMPLOYEE THAT WE SPOKE TO, WE DID AND ASKED THEM FOR THE ENTIRE VACATION TIME AND OR ALL THE TIME THEY TOOK OFF, BUT WE DID SPOT CHECK.

SO, THAT IS THE PROCESS THAT WE WENT THROUGH. THAT IS HOW I INTERPRETED YOUR REQUEST FOR AN AUDIT, AND HOW WE WENT THROUGH LEARNING THIS INFORMATION, AND GATHERING INFORMATION FOR YOU.

OKAY. I WILL SHARE SOME FINDINGS WITH YOU, WITH RESPECT TO THE THREE DIFFERENT CATEGORIES. I WILL START WITH PAID TIME OFF BECAUSE IT IS, FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, THE SIMPLEST ONE.

LET'S SEE. UNDER THE CITY PERSONNEL POLICIES, THERE ARE A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT PAID TIME OFF POLICIES, OR PAID TIME OFF BENEFITS THAT ARE PROVIDED TO EMPLOYEES. THEY ARE LISTED ON

[01:30:01]

THE POWERPOINT, AND GENERALLY SPEAKING, THEY ACCRUE AT VARIOUS RATES, DEPENDING ON THE EMPLOYEE'S TENURE AND TYPE OF LEAVE. FOR EXAMPLE, VACATION LEAVE ACCRUES AT A RATE, PER PAY PERIOD. PARENTAL LEAVE, JUST AN EMPLOYEE HAS AN ENTITLEMENT TO IT ON AN ANNUAL BASIS TO THE EXTENT THAT THEY HAVE A NEW BABY. VACATION LEAVE IS SUBJECT TO A MAXIMUM CARRYOVER, SO AN EMPLOYEE ACCRUES AND ACCRUES AND ACCRUES, AND IF THEY GET TO THE END OF THE YEAR AND HAVE MORE THAN THE MAX CARRYOVER, THE NUMBER DROPS DOWN TO THE NEXT CARRYOVER AND THEY GO ABOUT THEIR ACCRUAL AFTER THAT. THERE IS A PROVISION IN THE SICK LEAVE POLICY, WHERE TO THE EXTENT SICK LEAVE IS ACCRUED OVER 480 HOURS, IT CAN BE EXCHANGED AT A 3:1 RATIO FOR PERSONAL LEAVE. SO, THREE HOURS OF SICK LEAVE CAN BE EXCHANGED FOR ONE HOUR OF PERSONAL LEAVE. COUNCIL HAD QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW THE USE OF PAID TIME OFF IS APPROVED. SO, TO THE EXTENT THAT AN EMPLOYEE WANTS TO TAKE PAID TIME OFF, ALL OF THE DEPARTMENT DIRECTORS WHO WE INTERVIEWED AND ALL OF THE EMPLOYEES THAT WE SPOKE WITH, AND HR, EVERYONE WAS CONSISTENT IN SAYING THAT TIME OFF HAS TO BE REQUESTED IN ADVANCE. HOWEVER, FOLKS UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THE TERM "IN ADVANCE" MEANS, DIFFERED ACROSS DEPARTMENTS AND ACROSS WAYS OF DOING THINGS. BUT, EVERYBODY SORT OF AGREED THAT IT HAD TO BE KIND OF LIKE TWO WEEKS OR MORE.

AND, THAT TO THE EXTENT AN EMPLOYEE WANTED TO TAKE TIME OFF, THEY HAD TO ASK FOR APPROVAL, AND THEY HAD TO LET THEIR ENTIRE TEAM NO. TIME USED, PAID TIME OFF USED, IS RECORDED IN THE CITY'S TIMEKEEPING SOFTWARE, SO TO THE EXTENT THAT AN EMPLOYEE IS USING VACATION LEAVE, EVEN IF THEY ARE AN EXEMPT EMPLOYEE, IF THEY ARE TAKING TIME OFF AND NOT WORKING, THEY REPORT THAT TIME INTO THE CITY'S TIMEKEEPING SOFTWARE AND IT IS RECORDED THERE. FOR EXEMPT EMPLOYEES, TIME IS REPORTED ON AN EXCEPTION BASIS. SO, WHAT THAT MEANS IS, THERE IS AN UNDERSTANDING THAT AN EMPLOYEE IS WORKING 40 HOURS PER WEEK, AND TO THE EXTENT THAT THEY DIFFER FROM THAT, EITHER BY USING VACATION OR WORKING ADDITIONAL TIME THAT WOULD COUNT FOR COMP TIME OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THEN THEY REPORT THAT EXCEPTION INTO THE TIMEKEEPING SOFTWARE. OTHERWISE, IT IS JUST RECORDED AS 40 HOUR WEEKS. I MENTIONED THIS SOMEWHAT ALREADY, BUT THE PROCESS FOR REQUESTING TIME OFF, OR NOTIFYING A DIRECTOR OR SUPERVISOR OF THEM DESIRED TO REQUEST TIME OFF DIFFERS BETWEEN DEPARTMENTS. BUT, NOBODY INDICATED THAT -- NO PERSON WHO WE INTERVIEWED INDICATED THAT THEY DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS, THAT THEY FELT THAT PEOPLE WERE NOT PROPERLY REQUESTING TIME OFF, THAT THEY WERE NOT GIVING NOTICE AND IT WAS NOT BEING RECORDED IN THE TIMEKEEPING SOFTWARE, ANYTHING LIKE THAT. SO, THIS IS WHY PAID TIME OFF IS THE SIMPLEST ONE AND WE ARE GOING FIRST WITH THAT ONE. I MENTIONED THIS EARLIER, BUT I WANT TO BE SURE I SEE IT AGAIN. WE DID CROSS REFERENCE THE STATEMENTS THAT EMPLOYEES MADE TO US, IN INTERVIEWS WITH RECORDS THAT WE PULLED FROM THE TIMEKEEPING SYSTEM. OKAY. SCHEDULED WORK POLICY WAS NOT ON THE LIST OF CATEGORIES THAT COUNCIL ASKED US TO AUDIT, BUT I THINK IT MAKES GOOD SENSE TO TALK ABOUT THAT RIGHT NOW, BECAUSE THE CITY, IN FACT, HAS A PERSONNEL POLICY TITLED "FLEXIBLE WORK SCHEDULE." AND IT PROVIDES FOR A NUMBER OF, SEVERAL DIFFERENT CATEGORIES, OF WAYS THAT AN EMPLOYEE'S SCHEDULE MIGHT BE DIFFERENT FROM WHAT YOU WOULD TYPICALLY IMAGINE IT TO BE, 8:00 THROUGH 5:00, MONDAY THROUGH FRIDAY. SO, YOUR PERSONNEL POLICIES IN FACT CALL FOR THE FIRST CATEGORY BEING FLEX TIME AND THE IDEA UNDER THE CONCEPT OF FLEX TIME IS THAT YOU MIGHT BE FLEXIBLE WITH RESPECT TO THE TIME THE EMPLOYEE STARTS WORKING, AND WHAT TIME THEY END WORKING, SO THEY MIGHT WORK 7:00 TO 4:00 OR 9:00 TO 6:00, OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. OTHER WAYS THAT YOU CAN BE FLEXIBLE, THAT YOUR POLICY CONTEMPLATES IS FLEXIBILITY AND THE LENGTH OF DAY. SO, YOU MAY HAVE SOMEONE WHO WORKS A LONGER DAY ON MONDAY AND A SHORTER DAY ON TUESDAY. UNDER THIS POLICY, IT CONTEMPLATES THAT THIS WOULD BE A FORMALLY APPROVED FLEX SCHEDULE, AS OPPOSED TO SOMEONE WHO IS JUST MOVING THEIR DAY AROUND, BASED ON WHAT THEY HAVE THAT PARTICULAR DAY. ANOTHER FLEXIBLE SCHEDULE THAT YOUR POLICY EXPRESSLY CONTEMPLATES IS EXPRESS WORK WEEKS, WORKING FOUR TENS, THAT IS WORKING FOUR DAYS

[01:35:07]

OF THE WEEK, 10 HOURS A DAY, TO GET TO YOUR 40 HOURS. OR, WORKING MONDAY THROUGH THURSDAY AT NINE HOURS, OR FOR SOME EXEMPT EMPLOYEES, THEY CAN DO MONDAY THROUGH THURSDAY AT 9:00 AND TAKE EVERY OTHER FRIDAY OFF, AND YOU STILL GET TO 40 HOURS

THAT WAY. >> SO --

>> YES? >> HOW DO WE KNOW, LIKE, WHEN I GO TO WORK, I HAVE TO BADGE IN EVERY DAY, AND I KNOW, I HAVE TALKED TO THE MAYOR PRO TEM, PEOPLE DRIVE UP, WALK UP, GET THEIR BADGE, SO I KNOW THERE IS WORK GOING ON AND EVERYTHING, BUT HOW DOES SOMEONE KNOW -- LIKE ME, WHO WAS USED TO HAVING TO BADGE IN, OR GET TO A CERTAIN TERMINAL AND LOG ON ALL THE TIME -- HOW DO PEOPLE WHO HAVE ALL DIFFERENT SCHEDULES, HOW DO WE KEEP TRACK OF WHO IS COMING IN, AND GATHERING 8:32 5:30? OR, THIS PERSON IS A NON-:00 TO 6:00, OR THIS PERSON IS AN A TO CODIFY THE CLOCK, HOW IS THAT KEPT TRACK OF IF WE DON'T BADGE

IN? >> YOU DON'T HAVE A BADGE IN SYSTEM, SO WITH RESPECT TO -- I THINK YOU ARE ASKING ME PRIMARILY ABOUT EXEMPT EMPLOYEES?

>> JUST, ANY. >> ANY? OKAY.

>> LIKE, AT WORK, THEY KNOW WHERE I AM AT ALL THE TIME, BECAUSE I AM TRACKED, LIKE A -- I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE WORD IS.

>> YEAH, WE ARE LIKE THAT, TOO, IN MY OFFICE, WE ALL KNOW WHERE EVERYBODY IS. BUT, THERE IS -- THERE WAS A WHOLE HOST OF DIFFERENT WAYS, THAT YOU CAN -- THAT AN ORGANIZATION EMPLOY STRATEGIES TO KNOW WHERE THEIR EMPLOYEES ARE.

>> I KNOW THERE ARE WAYS TO DO IT, BUT HOW ARE WE DOING IT?

>> HOW ARE YOU DOING IT? >> YEAH, AS A CITY?

>> I DON'T KNOW WHETHER YOU HAVE BADGES THAT GO IN OR OUT OF YOUR OFFICES, I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU KEEP TRACK OF EMPLOYEES' WHEREABOUTS, OR IF YOU EVEN HAVE A DESIRE TO DO THAT.

>> I DON'T KNOW. LIKE, AGAIN, I JUST WANTED TO -- BECAUSE WITH FLEXIBLE SCHEDULES AND FLEXIBLE START, STOP TIMES, I THOUGHT, MAN, EACH DEPARTMENT HEAD PROBABLY KNOWS THEIR FIVE EMPLOYEES, BUT IF THERE ARE MORE PEOPLE -- I DON'T KNOW. THE WHOLE THING IS FOREIGN TO ME. WE TALKED ABOUT THIS, I AM USED TO 9:00 TO 5:00, IF YOU SHOW UP AT 9:01, SOMEBODY IS TEXTING YOU GOING, "HEY, ARE YOU COMING IN TODAY?"

>> YEAH, FAIR ENOUGH. TO SOME EXTENT, IT COMES DOWN TO DELEGATION. YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND, OR HAVE CONFIDENCE THAT YOUR DEPARTMENT DIRECTORS HAVE A KNOWLEDGE OF WHERE THEIR EMPLOYEES ARE, AND WHAT THEIR SCHEDULES ARE, AND WHAT THEY ARE

DOING. >> SARAH, IS IT OKAY IF I --

>> ABSOLUTELY, YEAH. >> I JUST DON'T WANT TO -- CITY MANAGER, JAMES BYRON. SO, IT WOULD BE SOME THAT -- NOW, FOR SOME, IT IS EVERYBODY THAT HAS THAT JOB. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, PD IS ON 12 HOUR SHIFTS, IF YOU ARE ON PATROL. DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU ARE ON PATROL, 12 HOUR SHIFTS -- WELL, THEY MAY HAVE SOMEONE WHO IS WORKING FOUR TENS, IN ORDER TO DO THE MID-SHIFT -- I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT IT IS CALLED RIGHT NOW, BUT THE MID CARRYOVER SHIFT. SO, BUT, FOR THE MOST PART, YOU ARE ON 12'S. AND THEY KNOW EVERYONE IS ON 12'S AND YOU ARE NOT REALLY ASKING ABOUT

THAT. >> HEY, I WILL JUST BE MORE BLUNT -- BACK IN, SAY, APRIL, I SPENT A LOT OF TIME UP HERE, STANDING OUTSIDE. AND I WAS SURPRISED BY HOW MANY PEOPLE WERE LEAVING AT, SAY, 3:30, 4:00, 4:30. SOME PEOPLE STAYED UNTIL 5:30. I DIDN'T EXPECT, A 5:00, FOR A BILL TO GO OFF AND ALL OF CITY HALL UNLOADS, BUT IT GOT ME THINKING, BECAUSE I WAS LIKE, MAN, HOW MANY HOURS IS EVERYBODY WORKING? AND YOU WOULD HEAR OTHER PEOPLE SAY, "WELL, YOU JUST SEE PEOPLE. THEY CAME IN AT 10:00 AND LEFT AT 4:00, MAYBE THEY HAD A DOCTORS APPOINTMENT, I DON'T KNOW. JUST A SNAPSHOT. THAT IS KIND OF WHAT GOT -- TO BE HONEST -- US TALKING. HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE PUTTING IN 40 HOURS? HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE PUTTING IN 60 HOURS? AND ARE THEY PUTTING IN 60 HOURS BECAUSE OTHER PEOPLE ARE PUTTING IN 30 HOURS? AND HOW DOES IT TRACK? THAT IS WHY HONESTLY, IT CAME DOWN TO, I DON'T LIKE HAVING CERTAIN FUNCTIONS AT CITY HALL, BECAUSE YOU STAND UP THERE EIGHT HOURS, YOUR MIND JUST WANDERS, LIKE, WHAT IS GOING ON? WHEN IN REALITY, IT IS BEST TO NOT EVEN BE IN THE BUILDING, THEN.

>> SO, THE BEST ANSWER IS, EACH PERSON WHO IS NOT ON A STANDARD 8:00 TO 5:00 HAS TO HAVE PERMISSION AND THEY HAVE TO HAVE PERMISSION FROM THEIR DIRECTOR. IN THE LACK OF A DIRECTOR, IT WOULD BE THE MANAGER OR WHOEVER IS OVER THAT DIVISION. AND THAT HAS TO BE APPROVED, AND THAT IS ALSO SHARED WITH HUMAN RESOURCES. SO, EFFECTIVELY, THE DIRECTOR KNOWS THAT I HAVE TWO PEOPLE WHO ARE WORKING A COMPRESSED SCHEDULE, OR FLEX TIME, OR WHATEVER. AND THESE ARE THE TWO PEOPLE AND THE SCHEDULES

[01:40:03]

THAT THEY ARE ON, AND IT IS UP TO THE DIRECTOR OR THE MANAGER TO ADJUDICATE THAT, IF THE EMPLOYEES ARE NOT MEETING THE STANDARD OF THOSE HOURS BEING WORKED. SO, IF YOU ARE ON FOUR 10, SO THAT MEANS YOU ARE PROBABLY WORKING FROM 8:00 TO 6:00, IS WHAT I WOULD THINK THAT ENDS UP BEING. IF YOU ARE WORKING 8:00 TO 6:00 AND YOU ARE NEVER RESPONDING TO MESSAGES AT 5:30 OR WHATEVER ELSE, OR THEY WALK BY YOUR DESK AT 5:30 AND YOU ARE NOT THERE, THEN THAT WOULD BE ON THE DIRECTOR, TO

CORRECT THAT BEHAVIOR. >> OR, THE DIRECTOR IS ON REMOTE WORK OR THE DIRECTOR IS ON A FOUR 10, AND THE EMPLOYEES ARE

NOT ON A 4/10. >> I DON'T KNOW OF ANY DIRECTORS THAT HAVE AUTHORIZED A 4/10, BUT WE ALSO HAVE EXECUTIVE DIRECTORS NOW. SO, EFFECTIVELY, YOU KNOW, AS YOU KNOW, ULTIMATELY, I AM RESPONSIBLE. SO, I WOULD SAY THAT THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTORS ARE ALSO RESPONSIBLE FOR KNOWING WHAT THEIR PEOPLE ARE DOING, AND THEN THE DIRECTORS ARE RESPONSIBLE.

SO, THERE HAS BEEN -- THERE ARE A NUMBER OF EYES TO BE ABLE TO COVER. SO, IN THE EVENT, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT HERE, SOMEONE ELSE IS HERE, TO BE ABLE TO SEE AND VICE VERSA. AND SHE WILL GET INTO SOME OF THE OTHER REQUIREMENTS. BUT, ANOTHER REQUIREMENT THAT WE HAVE IN PLACE IS THAT IT DOESN'T -- EVEN IF YOU HAVE A MIXTURE OF ALL THE DIFFERENT THINGS GOING ON, YOU STILL HAVE TO HAVE SOMEONE REPRESENTING YOUR DIVISION PHYSICALLY HERE. SO, THAT MEANS THERE IS SOMEONE THAT CAN PUT EYES ON AND KNOW THAT, HEY, YOU ARE NOT HERE, OR YOU ARE NOT HERE, AND YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE. SO, ANYWAY, I

HOPE THAT HELPS. >> I HOPE THAT HELPS. SO, THE DIRECTORS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE EMPLOYEES WHO ARE IN THEIR DEPARTMENT. THEY HAVE TO, AS CITY MANAGER SAID, THEY HAVE TO APPROVE ANY DEVIATIONS FROM THE SCHEDULE. THEY ALSO HAVE TO APPROVE ANY TIME OFF THAT THE EMPLOYEE TAKES. SO, TO THE EXTENT -- SO, IT IS VERY POSSIBLE, MAYOR, THAT YOU COULD BE HERE AND SOMEONE MIGHT NOT BE HERE BECAUSE THEY ARE EITHER WORKING REMOTE, OR BECAUSE THEY ARE ON VACATION LEAVE, OR BECAUSE THEY WERE SICK THAT DAY. AND ONE OF THE CHALLENGES -- AND YOU ACTUALLY KIND OF SKIP TO MY LAST SLIDE -- BUT, ONE OF THE CHALLENGES THAT YOU HAVE IDENTIFIED, THAT OTHER EMPLOYEES BROUGHT UP DURING OUR INTERVIEWS, IS A CONCERN ABOUT IN OFFICE PRESENCE. AND IT DOES SEEM THAT THAT IS A CHALLENGE HERE, IN THAT WHEN AN EMPLOYEE IS OUT, IT IS NOT CLEAR THAT OTHER EMPLOYEES KNOW WHERE THEY ARE. SO, I HAVE SOME SUGGESTIONS, WITH RESPECT TO THAT.

>> THESE ARE VALID CONCERNS. I WON'T PUT A DEGREE ON IT, BUT IT HAS BEEN BROUGHT UP BY PEOPLE IN THE BUILDING, THAT NOT KNOWING -- BECAUSE IF YOU DON'T KNOW, THEN YOU AUTOMATICALLY

ASSUME. >> RIGHT.

>> AND IN REALITY, THEY ARE IN A MEETING SOMEWHERE, IN TRAINING.

>> THAT IS EXACTLY -- YOU HAVE IDENTIFIED IT. AND I WILL SHARE AN EXAMPLE LATER, WE HAD SOME EMPLOYEES SAY, "WELL, WE NEVER KNOW WHERE THIS DEPARTMENT IS." AND AS WE WERE STARTING WITH THE AUDIT, WE WERE KIND OF LIKE, "OH, NO, WE ARE GOING TO FIND SOMETHING BIG AND IMPORTANT." AND ONCE WE STARTED LOOKING CLOSER, IT TURNS OUT THAT THIS PARTICULAR DEPARTMENT HAS A LOT OF OFF-SITE RESPONSIBILITIES, AND SO PEOPLE DIDN'T KNOW WHERE THEY WERE. BUT, THAT'S JUST BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T HERE, THEY WERE OFF DOING THEIR JOB SOMEWHERE ELSE, AND FOR A SANCTIONED REASON. SO, I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS, WITH RESPECT TO THAT. I WILL SKIP TALKING ABOUT THE REST OF THE FLEXIBLE WORK SCHEDULES, BECAUSE I THINK IT IS NOT TO THE CORE OF THE QUESTION THAT YOU WERE ASKING ME. BUT, I DO WANT TO MAKE THE POINT, VERY BRIEFLY, THAT THERE IS VALUE IN HAVING FLEXIBILITY WITH RESPECT TO WHERE PEOPLE WORK, AND HOW THEY WORK, AND WHERE THEY ARE WORKING. IT IS A NONMONETARY BENEFIT. WHICH YOU CAN PROVIDE TO EMPLOYEES THAT POSSIBLY MAKES THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THEM NOT BEING ABLE TO WORK FOR YOU, IF YOU HAVE SOMEONE WHO CANNOT PHYSICALLY BE HERE FROM 8:00 TO 5:00, IF YOU CAN OFFER THEM FLEXIBILITY, YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO KEEP THAT TALENT HERE, SO THERE IS LEVELS TO IT SO LONG AS IT IS MANAGED CORRECTLY. AND THE LAST THING I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ABOUT THIS, IS WITH RESPECT TO FLEXIBLE WORK SCHEDULES, INCLUDING REMOTE WORK, YOUR POLICIES ARE VERY CLEAR THAT THEY ARE A BENEFIT PROVIDED TO EMPLOYEES, AND NOT A RIGHT, AND THE CITY HAS A WHOLE BUNCH OF ELIGIBILITY CRITERIA THAT PEOPLE HAVE TO MAKE, IN ORDER TO BE ELIGIBLE TO WORK REMOTELY OR HAVE A FLEXIBLE WORK SCHEDULE, AND TO THE EXTENT THAT, FOR EXAMPLE, AN EMPLOYEE IS NOT PERFORMING, OR NOT MEETING THEIR SUPERVISORS' EXPECTATIONS, THOSE BENEFITS CAN BE TAKEN AWAY FROM THEM.

>> HOW WOULD WE BE ABLE TO DETERMINE IF IT'S -- IF WORK IS NOT GETTING DONE, HOW DO WE KNOW IF IT IS BECAUSE AN EMPLOYEE IS

[01:45:04]

ABUSING A PROCESS? OR, BASICALLY, WE ARE ABUSING THE EMPLOYEE, BY WE ARE PROVIDING THEM WITH A WORKLOAD THAT WHETHER THEY ARE HERE, REMOTE, OR WHATEVER, THEY JUST PHYSICALLY ARE UNABLE TO KEEP UP. HOW WOULD YOU RECOMMEND THAT WE -- HOW DO YOU DEFINE WHO IS A POOR PERFORMER, AND WHO IS JUST

OVERLOADED WITH WORK? >> THAT WOULD BE EITHER SUPERVISOR'S RESPONSIBILITY, TO UNDERSTAND, TO BE INVOLVED ENOUGH IN THE DELEGATION OF WORK THAT THEY HAVE A SENSE OF WHETHER THEY ARE GIVING THEM TOO MUCH WORK. OR, NOT ENOUGH WORK, AND IT IS NOT GETTING DONE. IN SOME INSTANCES, THEY CAN COMPARE THEM TO THEIR PEERS, AS WELL. IF THERE ARE MULTIPLE PEOPLE IN THAT POSITION. BUT, THE SUPERVISOR -- IN ALL INSTANCES -- SHOULD BE IN A POSITION WHERE THEY HAVE A SENSE OF WHETHER THE EMPLOYEE CAN DO THE WORK THAT HAS BEEN ASSIGNED TO THEM. AND IF SOMEONE IS COMING TO YOU AND SAYING, "IT'S JUST TOO MUCH, IT'S TOO MUCH," THEN THE SUPERVISOR CAN TALK TO THEM AND TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHETHER IT IS -- WHETHER THERE IS SOMETHING THEY CAN DO TO HELP THEM. AND ONE OF THE THINGS THEY CAN LOOK AT, IS TIME MANAGEMENT. BUT, THEY WOULD LOOK AT THAT, KIND OF AS A WHOLE PERSPECTIVE, AS OPPOSED TO JUST, YOU KNOW, IS THE FACT THAT YOU ARE WORKING REMOTELY IMPACTING YOUR ABILITY TO DO YOUR JOB? COMP TIME FOR EXEMPT EMPLOYEES. I THOUGHT IT WAS IMPORTANT THAT I SAY, ON THE FRONT END, THAT THE CITY HAS A POLICY THAT PROVIDES FOR COMPENSATORY TIME AS COMPENSATION FOR OVERTIME WORKED BY NONEXEMPT EMPLOYEES. IN OTHER WORDS, IF YOU HAVE AN EMPLOYEE WHO IS AN HOURLY EMPLOYEE AND THEY WORK MORE THAN 40 HOURS A WEEK AND THEY HAVE BEEN WORKING OVERTIME AND THE CITY PAYS THEM IN THE FORM OF COMPENSATORY TIME, THAT IS DIFFERENT FROM THIS POLICY. THE POLICY IS REQUIRED BY LAW. IT IS LIKE PAYING SOMEONE FOR OVERTIME WORK, WHEN THEY ARE AN HOURLY EMPLOYEE. THIS POLICY IS NOT REQUIRED BY LAW. IT IS NOT ILLEGAL, BUT IT IS NOT REQUIRED BY LAW. IT IS AN ADDITIONAL BENEFIT THAT IS OFFERED TO YOUR EMPLOYEES. UNDER THIS BENEFIT, EXEMPT EMPLOYEES, SO EMPLOYEES WHO ARE PAID SALARY AND WHO OTHERWISE MEETS THE TESTS FOR EXEMPT EMPLOYEES, CAN ACCRUE UP TO 80 HOURS OF WHAT IS CALLED COMP TIME, IN A SEPARATE ACCRUAL BANK IN THE SAME WAY THEY USE VACATION LEAVE OR PERSONAL TIME, TO TAKE TIME OFF, DURING WORKING HOURS. THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN COMP TIME AND VACATION TIME IS THAT COMP TIME IS NOT PAID OUT AT SEPARATION. SO, THE EMPLOYEE NEVER HAS THE MONEY. IT JUST SITS IN THEIR BANK, AND THEY USE

IT OR DON'T USE IT. >> AM I INCORRECT ON THAT, THOUGH? IT IS NOT 80 HOURS PER YEAR, IT IS MORE THAN 80 HOURS

AT A TIME? >> IN YOUR BANK. BASICALLY, YOU COULD EARN 80, USE 80, MULTIPLE TIMES IN A YEAR.

>> THAT IS TRUE, OKAY. >> CORRECT. WHEN I SPOKE WITH CITY MANAGER -- AND CITY MANAGER, YOU WILL EXPLAIN THIS BETTER THAN I WILL -- BUT, HE WILL ASK WHEN THE PURPOSE AND INTENT BEHIND THE POLICY, AND HE DESCRIBED IT AS A WAY OF CREATING A MORE FORMAL MECHANISM FOR EXEMPT EMPLOYEES TO FLEX THEIR TIME, OUTSIDE OF THOSE MORE NORMAL FLEX TIMES THAT WERE ON THE SLIDE PRIOR. SO, IN OTHER WORDS, WHEN YOU WERE AN EXEMPT EMPLOYEE, THE IDEA OF PAYING SOMEONE A SALARY IS PREMISED IN THE IDEA THAT YOU ARE PAYING THEM FOR OUTPUT, OR THE WORK THAT THEY PERFORM AS OPPOSED TO THE NUMBER OF HOURS THAT THEY ARE WORKING. AND THAT SOMETIMES BECOMES A CHALLENGE, WITH GOVERNMENT, BECAUSE THERE IS THE DESIRE AND EXPECTATION THAT THE ORGANIZATION GETS ITS MONEY WORTH FOR THE EMPLOYEES' TIME.

IN OTHER WORDS, WHEN YOU HAVE THE PUBLIC AT CITY HALL, YOU WANT THEM TO SEE GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES WORKING. AND THOSE TWO THINGS ARE A LITTLE BIT AT ODDS, SO THIS POLICY HAS CREATED A WAY IN THE WAY THAT YOU HAVE AN EXEMPT EMPLOYEE THAT STAYS LATE ON MONDAY NIGHT FOR A CITY COUNCIL MEETING, THEY CAN PUT SOME HOURS IN THEIR BANK AND POTENTIALLY USE THEM TO FLEX THEIR TIME LATER ON THAT WEEK OR SEVERAL WEEKS DOWN THE LINE. AND IT IS DONE IN A MORE FORMAL WAY BECAUSE YOU HAVE PUT TIME IN THE BANK AND YOU ARE TAKING IT OUT, AS OPPOSED TO THEM JUST LEAVING EARLY ON A FRIDAY AFTERNOON, BECAUSE THEY ARE AN EXEMPT EMPLOYEE, AND TECHNICALLY THEY CAN DO THAT. DID I EXPLAIN IT?

>> YEAH, I THINK YOU DID WELL ENOUGH. FOR IT'S VERY IMPORTANT FOR TRANSPARENCY. IT'S IMPORTANT FOR PUBLIC FAITH, THAT WHENEVER THEY SEE AN EMPLOYEE WHO IS --

[01:50:06]

THEY KNOW IS A CITY EMPLOYEE WHO IS NOT AT WORK, BUT IT IS WORKING HOURS, THAT WE HAVE A WAY TO DEFINITIVELY PROVE WHETHER THEY WERE ALLOWED TO BE OUT AT THAT POINT IN TIME, BECAUSE THEY HAVE ACCOUNTED FOR -- AND THERE IS THIS TRICKY ISSUE, WHERE WE CANNOT REQUIRE SALARIED EMPLOYEES TO PUNCH CLOCKS. SO, BECAUSE WE CAN'T DO THAT, THIS IS A GOOD ALTERNATIVE WAY TO SAY, OKAY, IF YOU WORKED, YOU KNOW, EXTRA HOURS, AND YOU ARE, FOR LACK OF A BETTER WORD, FLEXING OFF FOR A DAY, OR WHATEVER, OR HALF A DAY, NOW YOU HAVE A WAY TO SHOW, OKAY, YOU PUT IN EIGHT, AND YOU CHOSE OVER HERE TO PUT THE EIGHT, SO, SOMEBODY SAID, "I SAW JAMES OUT ON A GOLF COURSE AT THIS DATE AND TIME," I THINK HE WAS, YOU KNOW, GOOFING OFF AND, YOU KNOW, STEALING OUR MONEY AND ALL THAT SORT OF STUFF. THEN, I CAN GO BACK AND SAY, "OKAY, LOOK, THEY ACTUALLY CLOCKED OUT. " WELL, THEY DIDN'T CLOCK OUT, I CAN'T USE THAT TERM. THEY USED TIME IN THAT TIME SLOT TO PROVE THEY WERE WORKING AND THERE IS A WAY FOR ME TO PROVE THAT, VERSUS THE MORE FORMAL WAY OF, I WORKED EIGHT HOURS EXTRA THE OTHER DAY SO I DIDN'T WORK TODAY. SO, I PREFER THIS AND I LIKE THE WAY THAT YOU PHRASED IT AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE 40 HOURS, RIGHT? SO, WHENEVER THERE IS AN EXCEPTION, IT IS RECORDED. IT IS RECORDED WHEN IT IS EARNED AND IT IS RECORDED WHEN IT IS USED AND THAT IS THE PRIMARY LESION

-- REASON THAT I LIKE IT. >> SO, HOW IS -- AGAIN, I AM SALARY, AND IF I WORK 60, 70 HOURS A WEEK, THEN I DON'T EVEN GET A PAT ON THE BACK AND COMP TIME IS NOT SOMETHING -- BUT, WE DO HAVE FLEXIBILITY. SO, HOW DO YOU KEEP TRACK OF -- SAY, TONIGHT, YOU HAVE 20 EMPLOYEES THAT STAY FOR THE COUNCIL MEETING. WHO IS KEEPING TRACK OF WHO LEFT BETWEEN 5:00 AND 6:00, AND HAD DINNER, WHO LEFT BETWEEN 5:00 AND 7:00 BECAUSE COUNCIL MEETING STARTED? WHO STAYED UNTIL 9:30? WHO LEFT AT 8:00? IT SEEMS TO ME -- IT SEEMS LIKE A VERY BIG HONOR SYSTEM. NOT SAYING THAT WE HAVE A BUNCH OF DISHONORABLE PEOPLE, BUT IT JUST SEEMS LIKE IT REALLY IS JUST AN HONOR SYSTEM, VERSUS -- EVERY OFFICER THAT COMES IN, WE KNOW EXACTLY WHEN THEY GET HERE, BECAUSE THE RADIO IN, THEY HAVE A THING AND WHEN AN OFFICER LEAVES, WE JUST KNOW. SOME PEOPLE, WE KNOW EXACTLY LIKE THAT ALL THE TIME, JUST LIKE A TEACHER IN SCHOOL. YOU KNOW WHEN THE TEACHER IS LATE BECAUSE THERE IS NO TEACHER IN THE CLASSROOM. AND SO, THAT IS WHERE, I GUESS -- HOW DO WE KEEP

TRACK OF ALL OF THAT? >> IT IS ON OUR SYSTEM AND THAT IS TRUE FOR ALL OF OUR EMPLOYEES. WE DO NOT HAVE A CLOCK FOR OUR HOURLY EMPLOYEES TO PUNCH, SO THEY SELF-REPORT THE HOURS WORKED. AND THE SALARIED EMPLOYEES ALSO SELF-REPORT, WHEN WE DON'T WORK THE EIGHT HOURS. SO, THAT IS THE WAY THAT IT IS RIGHT NOW ACROSS THE ENTIRE CITY. NOW, YOUR EXAMPLE WITH THE PD IS BECAUSE THEY ARE RADIOING DISPATCH, SO NOW DISPATCH KNOWS THAT THE OFFICERS ON CAN BE DISPATCHED TO WHATEVER ELSE. AND I COULD BE WRONG, CHIEF OR ASSISTANT CHIEF, DO Y'ALL HAVE TIME CLOCKS THERE FOR THE OFFICERS? I DON'T THINK ANYBODY DOES, ANYWHERE. SO, THEY DON'T HAVE TIME CLOCKS OUT THERE, EITHER. SO, IF -- YOU KNOW, IF THERE WAS CONCERN ABOUT ABUSE, THEN I WOULD START WITH, THE SUPERVISORS WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE BEHAVIOR, FIRST. AND IF WE CAN'T GET SATISFACTORY COMPLIANCE, OR WE ARE NOT SATISFIED THAT WE HAVE COMPLIANCE, HOWEVER YOU WANT TO LOOK AT IT, THEN THE NEXT OPTION WOULD BE TO DO SOMETHING MORE FORMAL, AND YOU WOULD START EFFECTIVELY TIME CLOCKS FOR THE HOURLY EMPLOYEES TO LOG IN, YOU KNOW? AND EVEN STILL, THOUGH, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE IS A WAY TO DO WHAT YOU ARE ASKING FOR THE SALARIED EMPLOYEES, BECAUSE WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO BASICALLY TRACK THEIR TIME FOR THIS FACT THAT BASICALLY TREATS THEM AS HOURLY EMPLOYEES. AND WE DON'T WANT TO PAY OVERTIME.

>> I'M NOT ASKING FOR ANYTHING, IT'S MORE OF A -- PAYMENT TO ME, THAT IS A DIFFERENT DEGREE.

>> I DON'T KNOW WHO HAS IT ON THEIR DOOR, BUT SOME DOORS SAY, "I'M REMOTE," SOME DOORS SAY, "I AM IN THE OFFICE." THE PERCEPTION OF ME, AUTOMATICALLY, AND THE PUBLIC IN THE BUILDING WOULD BE, HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE WORKING REMOTELY? AND DOES THIS PERSON WORK REMOTELY ENOUGH THAT THEY HAD TO GET A DEVICE TO PUT ON THEIR DOOR TO TELL EVERYBODY WHEN THEY ARE WORKING REMOTELY? AND THEN YOU START GOING DOWN THESE RABBIT HOLES, BECAUSE NOT EVERYBODY HAS THAT LEVEL OF FLEXIBILITY, WHICH I DO THINK

[01:55:01]

IT'S IMPORTANT, AND I DO THINK IT BRINGS VALUE. BUT, I DO THINK IT IS TRICKY, WHEN THE PERCEPTION CAN QUICKLY GATHER OUT OF HAND, WHERE IT IS LIKE, "HOLY COW, WHO IS HERE?" SO, I AM NOT NECESSARILY ASKING FOR TRACKING, IT IS MORE TO UNDERSTAND WHEN I CAN EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE, THEY SAY, "I WENT INTO CITY HALL, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH," IT IS EASY TO SAY NEXT TUESDAY, NOBODY IS HERE BECAUSE IT WAS A HOLIDAY, BUT IT IS HARD TO SAY FOR FRIDAY, WE WORK IN COUNCIL UNTIL 2:00 A.M. AND EVERYBODY USED THEIR COMP TIME THE NEXT DAY, IT IS THINGS LIKE THAT THAT IS REALLY JUST MORE OF A DISCUSSION POINT.

>> IT IS A GOOD POINT. IF I MIGHT JUST CLARIFY ONE THING, SO, YOU SAID IT WAS AN "HONOR SYSTEM," AND I DON'T KNOW THAT I WOULD DESCRIBE IT EXACTLY THAT WAY, BECAUSE IF YOU FIND THAT AN EMPLOYEE HAS BEEN DISHONEST ABOUT THEIR TIME, THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS A VERY SIGNIFICANT DISCIPLINARY ISSUE.

IN MY RESULT, IT USUALLY RESULTS IN SEPARATION, AND FALSIFICATION OF A GOVERNMENT DOCUMENT, WHICH IS, IN FACT, A CRIME. SO, TO THE EXTENT THAT YOU HAVE -- SO, WE CANNOT STOP PEOPLE FROM BEING BAD PEOPLE OR DISHONEST PEOPLE, BUT WE CAN SET UP MECHANISMS BY WHICH THE CONSEQUENCES FOR ENGAGING IN THAT BEHAVIOR ARE VERY, VERY SERIOUS. SO, I DON'T KNOW IF "HONOR SYSTEM" IS EXACTLY -- I GUESS IT IS THE RIGHT TERM.

>> WELL, SELF REPORTING, BASICALLY.

>> IT IS HONOR SYSTEM. IF THE ATM ASKED FOR $500 AND THEY GAVE ME $1000, THEY KNOW, THEY WILL TRACK ME DOWN, IT IS JUST A MATTER OF TIME, SO IT IS BETTER FOR ME TO GO TO THE BANK AND SAY, "THEY GAVE ME TOO MUCH." OTHERWISE, THE BANK WOULD CALL ME UP AND GET IT ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. SO, I GET IT.

>> YEAH. OKAY. THE WAY THAT YOUR COMP TIME POLICY IS SET UP, IS THAT THE LANGUAGE OF THE POLICY SAYS THAT EMPLOYEES, EXEMPT EMPLOYEES ARE ELIGIBLE TO EARN COMPENSATORY TIME, IF THEY WORK MORE THAN 80 HOURS. WHETHER IT IS WORK, OR LEAVE, IN ONE PAY PERIOD. SO, PAY PERIOD IS TWO WEEKS OR HALF A MONTH. SO, IF THEY WORK MORE THAN 80 HOURS DURING THAT PERIOD OF TIME, TIME OVER THAT IS ELIGIBLE FOR COMP TIME. NOW, THE POLICY HAS SOME VERY SPECIFIC LANGUAGE IN IT THAT KIND OF DESCRIBES WHAT TYPE OF WORK OVER 80 HOURS EARNS COMP TIME, AND I HAVE PUT THE QUOTATIONS ON THE SCREEN, IT IS ESSENTIALLY EXTENDED HOURS BEYOND NORMAL BUSINESS HOURS, AND THERE ARE A WHOLE BUNCH OF EXAMPLES IN THERE. FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, SOME OF THE EXAMPLES ARE EASY TO UNDERSTAND WHEN THEY MIGHT COME INTO PLAY, "MIGHT," MEANING WE ARE ALL HERE, WEEKEND EVENTS, IF WE ARE HERE ON THE WEEKEND OR, VETERANS DAY, IF EMPLOYEES COME TO THAT.

AND THEN, SOME OF THE EXAMPLES MIGHT BE A LITTLE MORE AMBIGUOUS, HOURS WORKED MORE THAN EIGHT IN A DAY DURING NORMAL BUSINESS HOURS FOR REQUIRED DEADLINES, IT IS NOT CLEAR WHETHER THAT MEANS EVERY TIME YOUR WORK MORE THAN EIGHT HOURS ON SOMETHING YOU HAVE TO FINISH, OR WHETHER THAT PERTAINS ONLY TO SPECIAL PROJECTS. SO, YOU WILL SEE ON ONE OF MY LATER SLIDES, I'VE GOT SOME RECOMMENDATIONS REGARDING CLARIFICATION OF EXACTLY WHAT TYPE OF WORK IT QUALIFIES FOR, FOR THIS TYPE OF BENEFIT. OKAY, I'M GOING TO APOLOGIZE IN --

YES? >> QUESTION? SO, HOURS WORKED BEYOND EIGHT IN A DAY DURING NORMAL BUSINESS HOURS FOR REQUIRED DEADLINES -- SO, IF I AM JUST COMING IN, AND I HAVE TO WORK 10 HOURS, BUT THERE ISN'T A DEADLINE ASSOCIATED, THAT IS NOT ELIGIBLE FOR COMP TIME? IS THAT A TRUE STATEMENT?

>> THAT WOULD BE HOW I WOULD READ IT. BUT, I WILL TELL YOU ON MY NEXT SLIDE, THAT AS WE SPOKE WITH EMPLOYEES, AND DIRECTORS, AND CITY MANAGER, IT BECAME CLEAR THAT THE INTENT OF THIS POLICY IS NOT TO COVER SOMEONE WHO JUST HAS TO WORK LATE BECAUSE THEY HAVE A LOT OF WORK. THE INTENT OF THE POLICY IS TO COVER SPECIAL THINGS, SPECIAL PROJECTS OR SPECIAL EVENTS, AND NOT JUST SOMEONE THAT HAS TO WORK LATER THAN NORMAL OR WORK FOR A FEW HOURS ON SATURDAY BECAUSE THEY HAVE A LOT OF WORK TO DO, BECAUSE EVERYBODY HAS A LOT OF WORK TO DO.

>> THAT ANSWERS MY QUESTION. THE COUNCIL MEETING -- JUST TO GO BACK TO THAT -- IS A COUNCIL MEETING A SPECIAL PROJECT, DEADLINE, SHORT-TERM NEEDS? OR, IS THAT PART OF THE PROJECT -- IF YOU ARE A DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR, YOU HAVE TO BE AT EVERY PLANNING AND ZONING MEETING. SO, THIS THE SALARY INCLUDE THE FACT THAT YOU WILL HAVE TO WORK ONE OR TWO NIGHTS EXTRA? OR, IS THAT YOUR SALARY IS 40 HOURS AND BECAUSE YOUR PLANNING DIRECTOR HAD TO BE AT PLANNING AND ZONING, YOU WOULD

GET COMP TIME FOR THAT? >> I WOULD SAY THAT YOUR COMP TIME POLICY AND THE FACT THAT YOU ARE PAYING SOMEONE SALARY, BOTH TOGETHER, SAY THAT, WELL, ONE, THEY HAVE TO BE THERE BECAUSE IT IS THEIR JOB. AND SECONDARILY, THE CITY HAS THIS

[02:00:05]

ADDITIONAL BENEFIT, WHERE YOU GIVE THEM THIS COMP TIME BECAUSE THEY ARE THERE, IN THE MEETING. SO, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU ARE ASKING ME SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THE POLICY --

>> SO, IF YOU JUST HAVE A LOT OF WORK, SO, IS THAT A LOT OF WORK? OR, IS THAT LIKE -- THESE ARE NOT ALL INCLUSIVE. BUT, THAT IS NOT A REQUIRED DEADLINE? BECAUSE I -- LIKE, I HAVE ASKED THE CITY MANAGER BEFORE, AND I'M TRYING NOT TO MAKE THIS PERSONAL, BUT SOMETIMES, IT IS LIKE, CITY MANAGER, AND ASSISTANT TO THE CITY MANAGER, ASSISTANT TO THE ASSISTANT TO THE CITY MANAGER, AND ASSISTANT TO THE ASSISTANT TO THE ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER, AND IN MY MIND, I AM THINKING, AND MY GETTING COMP TIME? WHY IS EVERYBODY HERE? BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT PRESENTING, THEY ARE NOT -- YOU KNOW, THEY ARE NOT DOING ANYTHING THAT IS UP HERE, AND CAN THE ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER HANDLE WITH THE EXECUTIVE ASSISTANT? SOMETIMES, I LIKE THE TERM A LOT OF FIREPOWER, AND IT MAKES ME WONDER, DO WE NEED ALL OF THAT? OR IS IT BETTER USED IF PEOPLE ARE NOT BURNED OUT STAYING UNTIL 11:00 EVERY NIGHT? YOU HAVE THE CITY MANAGER, ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER AND ASSISTANT TO THE CITY MANAGER, HOWEVER, THEY CAN STAY HOME, ENJOY THEIR EVENING, AND WHILE THESE GUYS -- OR GIRLS, OR WHOEVER -- AREN'T THERE THE NEXT DAY, OR SOME OTHER DAY, THEN THAT PERSON IS FILLING IN. AGAIN, I'M TRYING NOT TO GET TO WHERE IT SEEMS LIKE WE ARE GOING AFTER ANYBODY, I JUST HAVE QUESTIONS BECAUSE I SEE THREE PEOPLE THAT STAY HERE AND ONE IS PRESENTING AND I'M THINKING, IN OTHER CITY'S I HAVE GONE TO, THERE IS LIKE ONE PERSON TO PRESENT, THEN THEY ARE GONE. SO, YOU SEE A LARGE STAFF CONTINGENT AS WE SEEM TO HAVE SOMETIMES.

>> SO, IT IS HARD TO ANSWER A QUESTION LIKE THAT ON AN OVERARCHING BASIS, BECAUSE SOMETIMES, THERE ARE LOTS OF REASONS WHY THIS PERSON IS HERE, THIS PERSON IS HERE. CERTAINLY, BECAUSE THEY DID THEIR RESEARCH. LIKE, MARK HERE, FOR EXAMPLE --

>> YEAH, I SHOULD GET COMP TIME!

>> BUT, YOU KNOW, I THINK YOU ARE ASKING ME THE QUESTION MORE FROM LIKE, A THEORETICAL SENSE, AS OPPOSED TO WHAT THE POLICY SAYS. BECAUSE THE POLICY SAYS IF YOU HAVE AN EXEMPT EMPLOYEE AT A NIGHT MEETING OR A SPECIAL EVENT OR MEETING OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THEN THEY ARE ELIGIBLE FOR COMP TIME. BUT, IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU ARE ASKING ME MORE, LIKE, SHOULD THEY BE THERE? AND THAT

IS A QUESTION -- >> I AM TRYING TO KEEP IT THERE ONLY BECAUSE I DON'T WANT THEM TO BE LIKE, "HEY, HE WAS SINGLING ME OUT," BUT THAT IS REALLY NOT IT, I'M JUST TRYING TO BE AS GENERAL AS POSSIBLE WITHOUT GETTING INTO SPECIFICS.

>> SO, THE ONLY ONES I HAVE REQUIRED TO BE SURE -- THAT IS THE EASIER WAY OF ANSWERING THIS QUESTION -- ARE ONES WHO EITHER HAVE AN ITEM ON THE AGENDA, RIGHT, SO THEREFORE THEY ARE THERE FOR THAT REASON. OR, I HAVE SPECIFICALLY ASKED THEM TO BE HERE, BECAUSE OF CONTINUITY, OR BACKUP, OR, LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU KNOW, SOMEONE IS BACK THERE RIGHT NOW, AND IT IS THE ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER, FOLLOWING UP ON ALL THE SUGGESTIONS, OR ALL THE ITEMS THAT NEED TO BE FOLLOWED UP ON IN THE FUTURE, YOU KNOW? COLLECTING ALL OF THAT SORT OF INFORMATION. NOW, COULD I SAY, "HEY, YOU DON'T HAVE TO COME TO THE MEETING TONIGHT, BUT I WANT YOU TO REWATCH THE MEETING TOMORROW AND DO THAT?" YEAH, I COULD DO THAT. BUT TO ME, IT IS BETTER, LEARNING, AND ALL THOSE TYPES OF THINGS TO SEE IT LIVE, AND TO BE HERE, AND TO EXPERIENCE IT. SO, THE ONLY ONES WE ARE AUTHORIZING FOR SOME INSTANCES, ARE HOURLY EMPLOYEES, SO THEY WOULD ACTUALLY BE EARNING OVERTIME DURING THIS TIME. BUT, THE ONLY ONES THAT WE HAVE EFFECTIVELY REQUIRED IT OF, ARE THE ONES THAT ARE GENERALLY ON COMP TIME. IF SOMEONE JUST WANTS TO COME, AND HANG OUT, AND LISTEN, THEY ARE NOT GENERATING

COMP TIME. >> BECAUSE SOMETIMES, IT IS FUN

TO DO THAT. >> WELL, YOU GUYS KEEP IT INTERESTING IN THE MEETINGS. Y'ALL KEEP IT INTERESTING. SO, THAT IS THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION. AND, OVER TIME, WE HAVE BEEN WHITTLING DOWN THE PEOPLE THAT WE HAVE REQUIRED TO BE HERE, YOU KNOW? JUST OUT OF THE NATURE OF HOW THE ORGANIZATION HAS MATURED AND DEVELOPED. SO --

>> SO, WHAT I SEE IS KIND OF A PATTERN OF CONCERN, WITH RESPECT TO THE OPTICS OF THE SITUATION. WHY IS EVERYBODY HERE? WHERE IS EVERYBODY, WHEN I AM WALKING THROUGH CITY HALL?

>> YEAH, THAT'S THE CONCERN. BUT, PEOPLE ASK QUESTIONS AND I HONESTLY DON'T KNOW, AND I TRY NOT TO GET INTO, "THE CITY MANAGER DOES THINGS THIS WAY," I TRY NOT TO GET INTO, WHY IS THIS PERSON DOING THIS? I REALLY DON'T CARE. I'M REALLY MORE ON THE OUTPUT, ARE THE EMAILS GETTING ANSWERED? ARE THE PHONE CALLS GETTING ANSWERED? IF THE PUBLIC IS HAPPY, I HONESTLY DON'T -- IF WE DON'T RAISE TAXES, I DON'T EVEN NEED TO READ A BUDGET. BUT, THE MINUTE WE RAISE TAXES, OR AN INCLINATION, I WANT TO READ LINE BY LINE AND SEE WHY WE WANT TO DO THAT. SO, HOPEFULLY, YOU DON'T HAVE TO ANSWER IT HERE.

>> LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT SOME OF THE CONCERNS -- "CONCERNS" IS AN OVERLY HARSH WORD. SOME OF THE FINDINGS -- YEAH, SOME OF THE FINDINGS FROM THE INTERVIEWS THAT WE CONDUCTED WITH THE

[02:05:07]

EMPLOYEES, WITH RESPECT TO COMP TIME. AND I HAVE TO APOLOGIZE, BECAUSE THIS IS MY WEIRDEST SLIDE. SO, I TRIED TO HAVE THE BULLETS COME IN ONE BY ONE. SO, WE DID FIND THAT FROM DEPARTMENT TO DEPARTMENT, THERE IS A DIFFERENCE IN HOW AN EMPLOYEE EITHER REQUESTED OR WAS APPROVED TO EARN COMPENSATORY TIME. SO, WHEN I SAY, "REQUESTED," I MEAN ON THE FRONT END BEFORE THEY DO THE WORK, BEFORE THEY COME TO THE MEETING, IF THEIR DIRECTOR IS ASKING THEM TO DO THE WORK, DID THEY SAY, CAN YOU DO THIS? AND WILL IT BE ELIGIBLE FOR COMP TIME? OR, DID THEY JUST ASK THEM TO DO THIS AND COME TO THE MEETING? AND ON THE BACK END, APPROVED, MAYBE AFTER THEY DID THE WORK OR AFTER THEY WENT TO THE MEETING, DID THEY ASK FOR APPROVAL TO LOG THE TIME AS COMP TIME IN THEIR TIMEKEEPING SYSTEM? SO, WE SAW THAT SOME DEPARTMENTS HAVE A POLICY -- WELL, "POLICY" IS NOT THE RIGHT WORD. A PRACTICE OR PROCEDURE WHERE AN EMPLOYEE ASKS IN ADVANCE. OTHERS, WHEN THEIR DIRECTOR ASKS THEM TO DO SOME PARTICULAR WORK, THEY SAID, THIS WOULD BE ELIGIBLE FOR COMP TIME, SO THERE ARE SOME DIFFERENCES IN HOW THIS WORKS. GENERALLY SPEAKING, THE EMPLOYEES, WE ASK THEM, WHAT KIND OF THINGS DO YOU DO THAT ARE ELIGIBLE FOR COMP TIME? EVERYTHING THAT THEY SAID THAT THEY DID FELL UNDER THE EXAMPLES THAT ARE LISTED IN THE POLICY, AND MOST OF THEM ARE RELATED TO THINGS LIKE NIGHT MEETINGS AND SPECIAL EVENTS. WE DID HEAR FROM SEVERAL EMPLOYEES THAT THEY FELT LIKE THEY HAD A RELUCTANCE TO REQUEST COMP TIME.

AND THIS WAS -- THIS PARTICULARLY CAME FROM EMPLOYEES WHO WERE LOWER DOWN ON THE ORGANIZATIONAL CHART, SO PRIMARILY NONMANAGEMENT EMPLOYEES. AND I WILL TALK MORE ABOUT THIS, BUT I THINK I KNOW WHAT THE REASON FOR THAT IS. THE COMP TIME POLICY CONTEMPLATES THAT ALL TIME THE EMPLOYEE WORKS WOULD BE TRACKED, OR THAT THEY WOULD REPORT EXCEPTIONS, AND WE WOULD KNOW HOW MUCH WORK THEY ARE REPORTING TO HAVE DONE, SO THAT WE KNOW IF THEY GO OVER 80 AND THEY ARE ELIGIBLE TO EARN THE COMP TIME. ONE OF THE CHALLENGES WITH THIS, IS THAT ALMOST UNANIMOUSLY, PEOPLE SAID THAT THEY DON'T REPORT ALL THE TIME THEY WORK. AND THEY SAID THAT THEY WILL USUALLY REPORT EXTRA TIME FOR SPECIAL EVENTS, OR SPECIAL THINGS, SPECIAL PROJECTS, BUT IF THEY JUST HAVE A LOT OF WORK TO DO, THEY DON'T TEND TO WRITE THAT DOWN, BECAUSE THAT IS PART OF THE JOB. AS A RESULT OF THAT, BECAUSE YOU TYPICALLY SEE MANAGEMENT EMPLOYEES AT COUNCIL MEETINGS AS OPPOSED TO PEOPLE WHO ARE NONMANAGEMENT, THE APPEARANCE WAS AMONGST THE PEOPLE WHO WE SPOKE TO, WAS THAT COMP TIME IS TYPICALLY FOR MANAGEMENT EMPLOYEES, AND NOT FOR FOLKS WHO ARE LOWER ON THE ORGANIZATIONAL CHART. WHICH, IS -- THERE ARE OTHER ORGANIZATIONS THAT HAVE POLICIES LIKE THIS, AND IN SOME OF THOSE ORGANIZATIONS, THEY LIMIT THE COMP TIME TO EMPLOYEES THAT ARE AT A CERTAIN LEVEL OR BELOW, AND THEY DON'T GIVE IT TO HIGH-LEVEL MANAGEMENT, SO THIS IS A LITTLE BIT FLIPPED AROUND. AND THEN, I THINK MY PRIMARY CONCERN WITH RESPECT TO THIS, IS THAT THE POLICY IS A LITTLE BIT AMBIGUOUS, CERTAINLY NOT CLEAR WITH RESPECT TO WHAT TYPE OF WORK QUALIFIES SOMEBODY FOR COMP TIME. ALMOST UNANIMOUSLY, THROUGH ALL THE CONVERSATIONS THAT WE HAD, IT IS CLEAR THAT EMPLOYEES, DIRECTORS, THE CITY MANAGER, ALL INTEND FOR THIS POLICY TO APPLY TO SPECIAL PROJECTS OR SPECIAL WORK THAT IS DONE, SPECIAL DEADLINES, AND NOT JUST WORK THAT SOMEBODY DOES WHEN THEY ARE VERY BUSY. BUT, THE LANGUAGE IN THE POLICY IS NOT TERRIBLY CLEAR ABOUT THAT AND YOU SAW THE LANGUAGE IN THE POLICY AND YOU SAW HOW IT COULD BE INTERPRETED, ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. BUT, THE GOOD NEWS IS THAT, ALTHOUGH EVERYBODY WAS KIND OF EXPRESSING A LACK OF CLARITY OVER WHAT KIND OF WORK IS COVERED, FOLKS TENDED TOWARDS DECIDING THAT WORK WAS NOT COVERED, RATHER THAN OVERREPORTING. SO, YOU DON'T HAVE A SITUATION IN WHICH SOMEBODY GOT A WHOLE BUNCH OF TIME THAT THEY WERE NOT ENTITLED TO. AND YOU REALLY HAVE THE OPPOSITE RESULT. I HAVE A FEW RECOMMENDATIONS WITH RESPECT TO THIS PARTICULAR POLICY PURSED FIRST AND FOREMOST, IT IS IMPORTANT TO SAY, IT IS LEGAL AND IT IS NOT UNIQUE, YOU ARE NOT THE ORGANIZATION IN TEXAS THAT HAS A POLICY LIKE THIS. AND THE BEST EXAMPLE I CAN POINT TO IS THAT THE STATE OF TEXAS HAS A STATUTE THAT PROVIDES COMP TIME FOR EXEMPT EMPLOYEES AND AGENCIES CAN DECIDE WHETHER TO ADOPT IT, OR NOT, SO SOME OF THE STATE AGENCIES IN TEXAS HAVE POLICIES LIKE THIS FOR THEIR EMPLOYEES. OTHER MUNICIPALITIES DO, TOO. AND SO DO SOME OF MY OTHER PRIVATE CLIENTS. SO, THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T EXIST ANYWHERE ELSE. MY RECOMMENDATION FOR STAFF AND FOR

[02:10:01]

THE CITY IS THAT YOU CONSIDER KIND OF LIKE A CENTRAL HR EFFORT, TO CLARIFY THE POLICY, AND IMPORTANTLY, TO CONDUCT TRAINING. SO, DIRECTORS AND EMPLOYEES KNOW WHAT TYPE OF WORK IS ELIGIBLE AND WHAT PROCESS THEY GO THROUGH, AND WHEN THEY CAN REQUEST THIS BENEFIT, OR WHEN THEY ARE APPROVED FOR IT, AND WHEN THEY ARE NOT. FURTHER CLARIFICATION ON WHAT TYPE OF WORK IS ELIGIBLE, AND HOW TO REPORT COMP TIME THAT THEY WORK.

SO, THOSE ARE MY RECOMMENDATIONS WITH RESPECT TO THIS POLICY.

REMOTE WORK -- IF THERE ARE NO OTHER QUESTIONS ON COMP TIME? THE CITY HAS A POLICY WHICH COVERS REMOTE WORK, IT IS SEPARATE FROM THE FLEXIBLE WORK SCHEDULE. IT IS ITS OWN WORK SECTION. AND IT PERMITS REMOTE WORK FOR CERTAIN POSITIONS, AS APPROVED BY THE DEPARTMENT DIRECTOR. SO, IT PLACES -- IT'S A VERY BROAD POLICY. IT KIND OF SAYS, WE THINK REMOTE WORK IS A GOOD THING, THERE IS VALUE TO IT, AND THE DIRECTORS, TO EACH OF THEIR DEPARTMENTS, ARE IN CHARGE OF IMPLEMENTING THIS POLICY IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE LANGUAGES. THE WAY THIS IS DONE, EACH DIRECTOR HAS AN SOP FOR THEIR DEPARTMENT, AND HUMAN RESOURCES CREATED KIND OF A FORM SOP THAT TELLS EACH DEPARTMENT DIRECTOR WHAT RULES, WHAT ELEMENTS SHOULD BE IN THE SOP, AND THEN THE DIRECTOR GOES IN AND WRITES IT IN A WAY THAT MAKES IT WORK WITH THE WORK THAT THEY DO IN THEIR DEPARTMENT. SO, WE GOT COPIES OF EACH OF THOSE SOPS, WE HAVE LOOKED AT THEM.

GENERALLY SPEAKING, THEY COVER WHO IS ELIGIBLE, WHAT SCHEDULE PEOPLE CAN WORK, WHAT THE RULES OR PROCEDURES ARE FOR MAKING SURE PEOPLE ARE AVAILABLE WHEN THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE AVAILABLE, WHAT EQUIPMENT THEY HAVE, COMMUNICATION PREFERENCES.

IT EVEN HAS STUFF LIKE, IF YOU ARE GOING TO BE ON A TEAM'S CALL, WHEN YOU ARE WORKING FROM HOME, YOU NEED TO BE DRESSED IN BUSINESS CASUAL CLOTHES AND THINGS LIKE THAT, SO IT IS VERY DETAILED. ALL OF THE EXPECTATIONS THAT YOU WOULD HAVE FOR AN EMPLOYEE WHO IS WORKING REMOTELY. AND THEN, TO THE EXTENT THAT AN EMPLOYEE IN A DEPARTMENT WANTS TO HAVE -- WANTS TO WORK REMOTELY, FIRST OF ALL, THEY HAVE TO SIGN SOP AND THEY HAVE TO AGREE TO ALL THE THINGS IN THERE. AND THEN, THEY HAVE TO COME UP WITH A -- AN AGREED-UPON SCHEDULE WITH THEIR DIRECTOR. SO, INCLUDED IN THE SOP, ARE PARAMETERS TO ENSURE IN OFFICE PRESENCE AND COVERAGE. SO, IN THE SOPS, THE MAXIMUM AN EMPLOYEE CAN WORK REMOTELY AT THE CITY IS TWO TIMES PER WEEK.

SO, IN OTHER WAYS, THREE DAYS IN OFFICE, TWO DAYS REMOTE. I WANT TO SAY, "AT HOME," BUT, REMOTE. GENERALLY SPEAKING, MOST EMPLOYEES ONLY WORK ONE DAY PER WEEK. THERE ARE A FEW EXCEPTIONS TO THIS, BUT THEY ARE PRIMARILY RELATED TO MEDICAL ACCOMMODATIONS, WHICH ARE REQUIRED BY LAW. SO, KIND OF TAKE THAT OUT OF THIS. AND THEN, AS CITY MANAGER MENTIONED EARLIER, EMPLOYEES WHO ARE ON A COMPRESSED SCHEDULE ARE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR REGULAR REMOTE WORK BECAUSE THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN OUT OF THE OFFICE MORE DAYS. LET'S SEE. SO, AS WE SPOKE -- SO, WE SPOKE TO ALL THE DIRECTORS AND EMPLOYEES AND ASKED THEM QUESTIONS ABOUT IF THEY WORK FROM HOME, WHAT THEIR SCHEDULES ARE, WHEN THEY ARE DOING IT, AND THEN TO THE EXTENT POSSIBLE, WE CONFIRMED UP AND DOWN THE CHAIN. BUT, EMPLOYEES DON'T TEND TO -- LIKE, THEY DON'T REPORT IN A TIMEKEEPING SYSTEM WHEN THEY ARE WORKING REMOTELY, BECAUSE THEY ARE WORKING. SO, THERE IS NOT A GOOD WAY OF CHECKING DOCUMENTATION TO CONFIRM THIS, SO WE RELIED ON EMPLOYEE STATEMENTS. THERE WAS NOTHING THAT CAME UP THROUGH ANY OF THIS, THAT INDICATED THERE WAS A VIOLATION OF POLICY OR INTENTIONAL ABUSE OR MISCONDUCT WITH RESPECT TO REMOTE WORK. BUT, WHAT WE DID SEE IS THAT THERE ARE SOME INCONSISTENCIES THROUGHOUT THE DEPARTMENT, PRIMARILY RELATED TO HOW EMPLOYEES ARE APPROVED TO WORK FROM HOME. IN SOME DEPARTMENTS, AN EMPLOYEE WILL HAVE, LIKE, MONDAY AS MY WORK FROM HOME DAY AND I AM WORKING FROM HOME EVERY

MONDAY. >> REMOTELY.

>> REMOTELY, SORRY, NOT WORK FROM HOME, REMOTELY, EVERY MONDAY. AND THERE IS A PRACTICE IN PLACE THAT IF THERE IS SOMETHING GOING ON AT CITY HALL ON MONDAY AND YOU HAVE TO BE THERE, THEN YOU WOULD JUST WORK FROM CITY HALL FIVE DAYS THAT WEEK. THERE IS NO MOVING YOUR REMOTE WORKDAY AROUND. OTHER DEPARTMENTS ALLOW EMPLOYEES SOME FLEXIBILITY TO MOVE AROUND, OTHER DEPARTMENTS DO NOT SET A PARTICULAR DAY AND THE EMPLOYEE

[02:15:01]

JUST GETS TO PICK ONE DAY PER WEEK AND THEY HAVE TO NOTIFY THEIR DIRECTOR. ALL OF THOSE THINGS ARE IN LINE WITH THE CITY'S POLICY, AND THERE IS NOTHING THAT -- SO, THAT IS ALL ALIGNED. AS I SAID, SOME INCONSISTENCIES THROUGHOUT THE DEPARTMENTS, VIOLATING POLICY LANGUAGE. AS WE HAVE KIND OF ALREADY DISCUSSED, THERE WERE SOME CONCERNS ABOUT IN OFFICE AVAILABILITY, AND WE HEARD THAT FROM SOME EMPLOYEES. SO, I GUESS YOU COULD SAY, IN OFFICE AVAILABILITY FOR APPEARANCES, MORE THAN REMOTE WORK IS. SO, EMPLOYEES AT REMOTE WORK WOULD SAY, "I DON'T KNOW WHERE SO-AND-SO IS." BUT, WHEN WE FOLLOWED THAT TRAIL, WE REALIZED THE EMPLOYEES WHO FOLKS WERE KIND OF POINTING TO HAD AN EXPLANATION FOR WHERE THEY WERE.

SO, THE BEST EXAMPLE WAS THIS DEPARTMENT THAT HAS A LOT OF ON-SITE EVENTS, AND PEOPLE WERE SAYING, "WELL, WE DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY ARE." WHEN, IN FACT, THERE SOP SAYS, YOU GET TO WORK REMOTELY, AND THEN ALSO YOU HAVE JOB DUTIES THAT TAKE YOU OFF SITE AND THOSE THINGS ARE DIFFERENT, SO MAYBE YOU WERE WORKING OFF-SITE AT A JOB FAIR OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, BUT THAT DOESN'T COUNT AS YOUR REMOTE WORKDAY, BECAUSE YOU ARE JUST DOING YOUR JOB AT THE JOB FAIR. SO, AGAIN, IN SPITE OF THIS CONCERN, WE WERE NOT ABLE TO, IN THE SCOPE OF OUR AUDIT, FIND ANY INDICATION THAT ANYBODY IS VIOLATING ANY POLICY, ENGAGING IN THIS CONDUCT OR DOING ANYTHING THEY ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE DOING. CONCLUSIONS -- SO, AS I SAID, THERE ARE -- I WAS NOT ABLE TO UNCOVER ANY FINDINGS OF ABUSE OR MISCONDUCT RELATED TO CITY POLICIES. THE PROCESSES VARY ACROSS THE DEPARTMENTS, BUT WE DIDN'T FIND ANYTHING OUTSIDE OF WHAT THE POLICIES SAY. AS WE TALKED ABOUT, FLEXIBLE WORK POLICIES, REMOTE WORK, FLEXIBLE START AND STOP, ALL OF THOSE THINGS ARE BENEFITS FOR AN ORGANIZATION TO RETAIN EMPLOYEES, THAT YOU MAY NOT BE ABLE TO OTHERWISE RETAIN. THERE IS EMPLOYEE MORALE ISSUES, ALL OF THESE THINGS, THESE ARE VALUABLE THINGS. SO, I CAN'T STAND UP HERE AND SAY, "YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE THESE THINGS," FROM A LEGAL PERSPECTIVE. BUT, WHAT I CAN RECOMMEND THIS CLARIFICATION OF THE COMP TIME POLICY IN LINE WITH THE COMMENTS I HAD ON THE PRIOR SLIDE, AND TO STANDARDIZE THE PROCESS AND TRAIN EMPLOYEES ON EXACTLY HOW IT SHOULD WORK AND HOW IT SHOULD BE. APPROVED AND NOTIFIED. AND THEN, WITH RESPECT TO THE CONCERNS WITH OFFICE AVAILABILITY, MY SUGGESTION WOULD BE THAT YOU START WITH, LIKE, SOME OF THE SMALLER, MORE PRACTICAL SOLUTIONS, TO ADDRESS THIS CONCERN. BECAUSE IT DOES SEEM TO BE A CONCERN. I DON'T WANT YOU TO BE IN A POSITION WHERE YOU ARE WALKING THROUGH CITY HALL, AND YOU WONDER WHERE PEOPLE ARE. AND SO, THERE IS A WHOLE BUNCH OF SMALLER, PRACTICAL STEPS THAT YOU CAN TAKE TO INDICATE WHERE THEY ARE, BEFORE WE DO AWAY WITH ALL OF THE POLICIES. AND SO, I PUT SOME SUGGESTIONS UP THERE, BUT -- THAT CONCLUDES MY FINDINGS. I AM VERY HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS, OR TO SHARE ANY OTHER

INFORMATION THAT I CAN. >> THANK YOU, MA'AM.

>> I -- >> YEAH?

>> VERY GOOD PRESENTATION. I HAVE QUESTIONS ON THE REMOTE WORK. THIS IS WHERE, ON THE REMOTE WORK CONTINUED PAGE, IT SAYS, SOME INCONSISTENCIES ACROSS DEPARTMENTS, BUT NOT WITH POLICY. SO, YOU LOOK AT THE APPROVAL PROCESS STANDARD DAY, AS YOU MENTIONED, BUT GOING BACK ON SIDE, IT SAYS THE DIRECTOR IS IN CHARGE OF SOP FOR THEIR DEPARTMENT. SO, LET'S SAY THERE IS FOUR DIRECTORS, SO, FOUR DIFFERENT DIRECTORS COULD PROMOTE DIFFERENT WORK SOPS, SO HOW WAS THAT, LIKE, A BETTER -- YOU KNOW, HOW DOES THAT GET LOOKED OUT FROM THE TOP DOWN? YOU CAN SAY, I CAN MOVE MY FLEX WORKDAY OR REMOTE WORKDAY, OR THIS DEPARTMENT DOESN'T LET ME DO THAT, SO I WANT TO WORK OVER THERE, I KNOW THAT IS AN ABSURD OF LIMBO, BUT FROM THE TOP DOWN, HOW ARE THESE DIFFERENT AND WHY IS THERE NOT CONSISTENCY?

>> I WILL LET CITY MANAGER ANSWER, BUT I WOULD SAY THAT GENERALLY SPEAKING, YOU WANT TO GIVE YOUR DEPARTMENT DIRECTORS THE FLEXIBILITY TO SET POLICIES THAT WORK FOR THE WORK THAT THEY

ARE DOING. >> RIGHT.

>> SO, IF YOU HAVE THEM OUT IN THE COMMUNITY, YOUR POLICIES WITH RESPECT TO HOW YOU TREAT THEM MAY DIFFER FROM SOMEONE WHO HAS EMPLOYEES WHO NEED TO BE IN CITY HALL EVERY DAY.

>> AND I CAN SEE THE DIFFERENCE WITH, LIKE, PUBLIC WORKS OR

[02:20:06]

COMMUNICATIONS, THERE ARE DIFFERENT THINGS ON THE FLY, BUT

MAYBE THAT IS ALL THERE IS. >> WELL, COUNCILMEMBER, THE WAY THAT WE APPROACH THIS, WHEN THINKING THE BEST WAY OF INCREMENTING IT, WAS WE PASSED AN OVERARCHING POLICY THAT IS BASICALLY, IT GIVES AUTHORITY TO THE DEPARTMENT DIRECTOR TO MAKE A DETERMINATION FOR WHAT IS BEST, IN THEIR DEPARTMENT AND THE WORK THAT THEY DO, BUT THAT DEPARTMENT DIRECTOR HAD TO DEFINE WHAT THAT WORK WAS, SO YOU HAD, LIKE, THE OVERARCHING POLICY THAT SAYS, "HERE ARE THE RULES YOU HAVE TO OPERATE WITH," NOW, TELL US HOW YOU WILL APPLY FOR YOUR VISION OR DEPARTMENT.

AND THEN, THEY DID THAT, WRITTEN, SO THAT WAY IT IS CLEAR, AND THEN BY THE TIME THEY WERE DRAFTED IN EACH DEPARTMENT, HUMAN RESOURCES AND/OR IN SOME CASES, EVEN ME, OR STRATEGIC OPS, OR WHOEVER, ACCORDING TO THE OVERALL POLICY THAT IS IN PLACE, THIS SOP MEETS THE INTENT OF THAT POLICY. AND TO THE EXTENT THAT YOURS DIFFERS FROM THIS DIRECTOR, FROM THAT DIRECTOR, THAT'S OKAY, SO LONG AS THE OVERALL POLICY ISN'T VIOLATED. AND IF YOU DON'T WANT TO ALLOW MORE THAN ONE DAY, THEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO, BECAUSE IT IS YOUR DEPARTMENT, YOU GET TO

DEPLOY YOUR RESOURCES. >> THANK YOU.

>> I APPRECIATE EVERYTHING, YOU KNOW, FOR ME, PERCEPTION IS REALITY, AND AGAIN, I HAVE SAID IT A FEW TIMES, I HAVE WORKED FOR, I GUESS, A TOUGH, TOUGH EMPLOYER, BUT I DO KNOW WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT HOW OUR EMPLOYEES ARE VALUED -- AND I TOTALLY GET IT, FLEXIBILITY HELPS SOME. BUT, THEN, I THINK ABOUT THE LIBRARIAN. LIBRARIAN CAN'T REMOTE WORK. HOW DO WE MAKE THE LIBRARIANS FEEL VALUED WHEN THERE IS A POTENTIAL FOR -- BECAUSE WE GOT A STUDY, I FORGET WHAT THE STUDY IS -- BUT, WE GET A STUDY AND I CAN SEE HOW SOME PEOPLE FEEL THAT THEY ARE NOT GETTING THE SAME BENEFITS AS OTHER PEOPLE, BECAUSE THEY WANT MORE FLEXIBILITY BUT, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T PATROL A STREET FROM HOME AND YOU CAN'T PATROL A STREET FOR REMOTE WORK, AND YOU'D HAVE LESS PEOPLE WHO ARE ABLE TO DO THAT, SO IN MY WORLD, IS NOT AS BROAD AS WHAT WE HAVE, THAT IT IS MORE THE SAME FOR EVERYBODY, TO WHERE YOU EITHER GET A DAY OFF, BUT I FIND IT ODD THAT A DIRECTOR CAN PICK -- "WELL, I LIKE YOU, YOU DID A GOOD JOB, I WILL LET YOU HAVE TWO DAYS FOR REMOTE WORK." "MIKE, HE HAS A BIG MOUTH, HE CAUSES PROBLEMS, ONE DAY." SHE WANTED WEDNESDAY, YOU GET A MONDAY, THOSE ARE THE ISSUES OF HUMAN NATURE WE HAVE AND I TRY TO THINK, WELL, HOW DO YOU DEFEND YOURSELF IN COURT? WHEN, IF YOU FIRE ME FOR NOT DOING MY JOB AND I AM LIKE, MAN, I AM WORKING MY TAIL OFF AND I DON'T EVEN REPORT ON MY HOURS AND YOU DON'T LET ME REMOTE WORK BUT YOU LET ALL OF THESE PEOPLE, SO IT JUST SEEMS TO ME LIKE WE CREATE PROBLEMS, AND I THINK THE WORLD HAS SHIFTED TO THIS FLEXIBILITY IN THE LAST FEW YEARS, AND IT HAS COME BACK A LOT TO WHERE, YOU KNOW WHAT? YOU NEED TO BE AROUND PEOPLE. AND ONE OF THE THINGS I SURE MOSTLY ABOUT IS WHEN SOMEONE WANTS TO MAKE A MEETING AT CITY HALL, IT INCLUDES A COUPLE DEPARTMENTS, IT MIGHT BE SIX WEEKS BEFORE SOMEONE CAN MEET WITH SOMEBODY, BECAUSE -- AND WHAT I SEE THROUGH ALL OF THIS IS, WE ARE SPENDING POLICIES, BUT IN MY MIND, OUR POLICIES ARE SO BROAD THAT IT TAKES SIX WEEKS TO GET THE DEPARTMENT HEAD OVER HERE, AND THIS DEPARTMENT HEAD HERE, AND THIS DEPARTMENT HEAD HERE ALL IN A ROOM AND IT IS TOUGH, SO THEN WHAT HAPPENS IS, THE WORD ON THE STREET BY SOME PEOPLE IS, YOU GUYS ARE NEVER THERE, WHEN IN REALITY, EVERYBODY IS WORKING, BUT THE POLICIES ALLOW SUCH FLEXIBILITY THAT I CAN'T FORCE YOU TO COME IN ON A MONDAY, AND I NEED TO MEET WITH YOU, BUT I AM OFF ON TUESDAY, WEDNESDAY, AND YOU ARE OFF ON MONDAY, FRIDAY, OR SOMETHING. AND I DON'T KNOW THE EASY ANSWER BECAUSE AGAIN, IT IS AN EASY PUSH. AND, YOU KNOW, EVERYTHING -- HEY, DO WE COME TO WORK? DO WE NOT? BUT, I JUST STOOD OUT THERE FOR CAUTION, THAT WHEN WE ARE DOING THIS, AND WE TRY TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET OUR EMPLOYEES TO BE A PART OF THE TEAM -- WELL, IF YOU GET REMOTE WORK, YOU ARE PROBABLY A LOT HAPPIER THAN THE PERSON WHO DOESN'T GET TO REMOTE WORK AND THE PERSON WHO WORKS OUTSIDE IN 110 DEGREES, YOU KNOW, PATCHING ASPHALT AND WORKING IN THE GRASS -- AND I AM A BLUE-COLLAR PERSON, THAT IS BEEN KNOWN I DON'T COMPLETE COLLEGE, SO I

[02:25:01]

DON'T ASSOCIATE WELL WITH THE HIGHLY EDUCATED -- BUT, I AM FEELING FOR THE PEOPLE WHO ARE WORKING 110 DEGREES AND I DON'T GET TO REMOTE WORK. AND IT IS ODD TO ME THAT THEY GET PAID LESS AND THE MORE YOU GET PAID, THE MORE BENEFITS YOU GET, AND THE MORE FLEXIBILITY, AND THE MORE VALUED YOU ARE. BUT, IF YOU, YOU KNOW, CUT GRASS AND WORK ON OUR DITCHES, WELL, IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, GO AND FIND ANOTHER JOB. AND I AM NOT SAYING WE SAY THAT, BUT AS A GUY THAT, YOU KNOW, HAS CALLUSES ON MY HANDS, THAT IS WHAT IT FEELS LIKE, SOMETIMES. AND I JUST FEEL LIKE WE OUGHT TO RE-EVALUATE THINGS AND THINK, YOU KNOW WHAT? IF THE COPS HAVE TO SHOW UP EVERY DAY AND THE LIBRARIAN, AND PUBLIC WORKS, THEN YOU KNOW WHAT? YOU DO HAVE AN OFFICE JOB, YOU DO MAKE $200,000 A YEAR, MAYBE YOU ARE NOT AS FLEXIBLE, AND MAYBE WE ARE NOT SAYING, HEY, YOU GUYS GET TO HAVE ALL THIS TIME, AND FOR ME, IT IS NOT EQUITABLE. ALTHOUGH, WE ARE FOLLOWING THE POLICIES. I AM REALLY HAPPY WE ARE FOLLOWING THE POLICIES IN MY MIND. THEY ARE BROAD, THEY ALWAYS THOUGHT THEY WERE KIND OF BROAD, SO I DO APPRECIATE ALL THE WORK, I APPRECIATE THE EMPLOYEES ANSWERING ALL THE QUESTIONS, BECAUSE I KNOW SOME KIND OF CAME UP, MAYBE THAT IT WAS A WITCHHUNT, IT IS NOT SO MUCH A WITCHHUNT, AS MUCH AS IT IS, ARE WE DOING RIGHT BY ALL THE EMPLOYEES IN MY MIND? YOU KNOW, ARE WE BEING, YOU KNOW, FAIR TO EVERYBODY? AND NOT JUST, LIKE YOU SAID, SOME PEOPLE FEEL, THE HIGHER UP YOU GO, THE MORE FLEXIBLE. AND I AM LIKE, YOU KNOW WHAT? BUT, THE PEOPLE WE HAVE A HARD TIME FILLING, OR AT THE BOTTOM AND MAYBE WE NEED TO HAVE A DIFFERENT POLICY TO HELP THOSE PEOPLE FEEL MORE VALUED, BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO WORK ALL DAY, OUTSIDE. BUT, THAT'S SOMETHING FOR US TO CONSIDER, I GUESS.

>> I WOULD JUST LIKE TO RESPOND TO A FEW OF THOSE THINGS BECAUSE THOSE ARE CERTAINLY THINGS THAT, YOU KNOW, WE CHEW ON AND WRESTLE WITH, TOO. I WILL SAY THAT, REMOTE WORK, AND AT THE TIME OF COVID AND THAT SORT OF STUFF, BASICALLY 100% REMOTE WORK WHERE, YOU KNOW, NO ONE IS HERE, EVERYONE IS REMOTE, THAT WAS CERTAINLY, FOR THE MOST PART, NEW TO THE PUBLIC SECTOR, YOU KNOW, AT COVID TIME, AS THERE WERE SOME BUSINESSES, PRIVATE, THAT WERE DOING THAT BEFORE COVID, BUT THAT WAS VERY UNIQUE FOR GOVERNMENT. BUT, FLEXIBLE WORK? THAT HAS BEEN AROUND LONGER THAN I CAN THINK OF, AND THAT EXISTS RIGHT NOW. I AM SAYING IT EXISTS RIGHT NOW, STILL. REMOTE WORK IS ONE PIECE OF THAT, NOW. IT IS LIKE ANOTHER PIECE OF IT. SO, WHAT I MEAN BY, "FLEXIBLE WORK," AND VALUING EMPLOYEES, WE GO AND TALK TO PUBLIC WORKS GUYS, SOME OF THE GUYS YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT WHO ARE OUT IN THE HEAT, AND WE ARE LIKE, WHAT WOULD MAKE YOU HAPPIER? AND THE BOSS SAID, IT WOULD BE GREAT IF WE COULD GET OFF AT NOON ON FRIDAYS. OKAY, WELL, THEN YOU WILL WORK NINE HOUR DAYS MONDAY, TUESDAY, WEDNESDAY, THURSDAY, THEN FRIDAY, YOU GET OFF AT NOON. THAT IS AWESOME. BOSS, IT WOULD BE GREAT IF WE COULD START EARLIER IN THE DAY BECAUSE IT GETS SO HOT, OKAY? NOW YOU ARE STARTING AT 7:00, 6:00, OR WHATEVER, AND YOU ARE GETTING DONE EARLIER, SO YOU ARE NOT IN THE HEAT OF THE DAY. THAT IS ALREADY IN PLACE HERE IN HUTTO AND HAS CERTAINLY IN PLACE FOR A LONG TIME. POLICE OFFICERS, YOU KNOW, THEY OBVIOUSLY CANNOT -- WELL, NOT ALL OF THEM ON PATROL CAN'T WORK REMOTE, BUT IF YOU ARE NOT ON PATROL, THEY ABSOLUTELY CAN WORK REMOTE, GENERALLY SPEAKING. BUT, PATROL, THEY WORK 12 HOUR SHIFTS. IT IS VERY UNLIKELY THAT AN OFFICE EMPLOYEE WOULD EVER BE GIVEN THE ABILITY OR THE PERMISSION TO WORK A 12 HOUR SHIFT, BECAUSE IT DOESN'T REALLY MAKE GOOD SENSE, BUT BECAUSE THE OFFICERS WORK 12 HOUR SHIFTS, THEY GET A THREE DAY WEEKEND AND A FOUR DAY WEEKEND, IT JUST ROTATES, THREE DAYS AND FOUR DAYS, THREE DAYS AND FOUR DAYS. I'M SURE THERE'S A LOT OF EMPLOYEES WHO WOULD LOVE TO HAVE, YOU KNOW, FOUR DAY WEEKENDS, BUT IT DOESN'T WORK FOR THE WORK THEY DO, SO WE TRY VERY HARD TO BE FLEXIBLE IN THE WAY THAT WE CAN, THAT ALSO GIVES TO THE EMPLOYEES, BASICALLY, WHAT THEY MOST VALUE, AND THAT IS WHAT WE REALLY TRIED TO DO, AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT I DO, AS A PERSON WHO IS LEADING OTHER PEOPLE AND WHO IS STEWARDING OTHER PEOPLE. I WANT THEM TO FEEL VALUED.

LIBRARY WORKS MULTIPLE SHIFTS BECAUSE THEY ARE OPEN DIFFERENT HOURS. SO, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THEM MAY WORK THREE DAYS IN A ROW, AND HAVE TWO DAYS OFF, THEN WORK A DAY, YOU KNOW? SO, THEY HAVE SOME DIFFERENT ASPECTS, TOO. BUT, WE CERTAINLY TRY TO START WITH THAT, AND I DON'T KNOW -- WITH THE EXCEPTION OF HAVING ACTUAL TIME OFF, IF YOU ARE WORKING REMOTE, THEN NOT HAVING A MEETING, THAT IS NOT A THING BECAUSE EVERY MEETING THAT WE HAVE -- THIS IS ALSO WHY WE INVESTED IN TECHNOLOGY -- EVERY WEEKEND THAT WE HAVE HAS A TEAMS COMPONENT, SO IF PEOPLE ARE

[02:30:10]

REMOTE THAT DAY, THEY STILL HAVE TO ATTEND MEETINGS. WE DON'T ALLOW THEM TO NOT ATTEND MEETINGS BECAUSE THEY ARE REMOTE, THEY ARE STILL OBLIGATED TO HAVE TO ATTEND. SO, IF THEY ARE OFF FOR THE DAY, SURE. BUT, OTHERWISE, THERE IS NOT AN EXPECTATION THAT IF YOU ARE REMOTE, THAT YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIVE TO PAINTINGS, NOT RESPONSIVE TO MEETINGS, OR ANY OF THAT STUFF. I'M NOT SAYING WE HAVE ALL THE PROBLEMS THAT COULD POTENTIALLY ARISE FIXED, I DO THINK SOME OF THE ITEMS HERE ARE CERTAINLY IMPORTANT AND I DID NOT SEE YOU RE-HIT THE -- MAYBE YOU DID? BUT I DID NOT SEE YOU RE-HIT IN YOUR CONCLUSIONS ABOUT CLARIFYING FOR THE EMPLOYEES THAT ARE NOT MANAGEMENT EMPLOYEES WHO ARE NOT GENERALLY AT MEETINGS?

>> YES, BECAUSE IN MY CONCLUSIONS I SAID, "PER MY PRIOR SLIDE." IT IS ALL THE WAY BACK THERE, SO, YES, YOU ARE

RIGHT. >> YEAH, SO, THE 80 HOURS -- LIKE, THE THINGS SHE RECOMMENDED, SHE TOLD ME EFFECTIVELY WHAT HER RECOMMENDATIONS ARE, AND I AGREE WITH ALL OF THEM. THAT KIND OF ADDRESSES, I THINK, MOST OF THE THINGS, MAYOR, I HOPE. I HAVE ONE QUESTION FOR THE ATTORNEY THAT JUST OCCURRED TO ME WHILE WE ARE TALKING, AND THIS, I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO, AND SALARIED EMPLOYEES, WE GENERALLY HAVE THEM REPORT THE EXCEPTIONS TO THEIR TIME. IS THERE A WAY THAT WE COULD LEGALLY HAVE EMPLOYEES REPORT, AND REPORT WHEN THEY ARE WORKING REMOTE? OR, DOES THAT GET CROSSWAYS WITH

FLSA? >> NO, FLSA SAYS THAT IF YOU HAVE AN EXEMPT EMPLOYEE, YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO HAVE THEM REPORT THEIR TIME, AND IF YOU DO HAVE THEM REPORT THEIR TIME, IT CAN BE SOMETHING THAT CAN IMPACT THE CLASSIFICATION, BUT THERE IS AN EXCEPTION TO THAT, IF YOU ARE DOING THE TIME REPORTING FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING A BENEFIT. SO, THIS WOULD ACTUALLY BE LEGAL, FOR PURPOSES OF THE COMP TIME POLICY, IF YOU HAVE FOLKS RECORD TIME, IF YOU ARE DOING IT FOR THE PURPOSES OF A BENEFIT.

>> SO, EMPLOYEES WORKING MONDAY'S FOR EIGHT HOURS REMOTE, THEY WOULD THEN GO INTO THE TIME SYSTEM AS A SALARIED EMPLOYEE, AND RECORD EIGHT HOURS MONDAY, REMOTE?

>> YES, YEAH. >> BECAUSE THAT'S THE BENEFIT?

>> YEAH. >> WHAT I WOULD SAY, IS THAT YOU ARE ABLE TO DO THAT FOR ALL SALARIED EMPLOYEES, YOU CAN ASK THEM TO RECORD THEIR TIME, AS A BENEFIT FOR THEIR COMP TIME. OR, I DON'T WANT TO RECORD MY HOURS, IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE

SAYING, TOO? >> NO, I DON'T THINK SO.

>> I AM SAYING SOMEWHERE IN THE MIDDLE, I AM SAYING, ONE, IT IS LEGAL TO HAVE EXEMPT EMPLOYEES TO RECORD THEIR TIME IF YOU ARE DOING IT FOR THE PURPOSES OF THAT AND I DID USE THE COMP TIME POLICY FOR EXAMPLE BUT REMOTE WORK WOULD BE THE SAME, AS WELL.

>> IF NOT, YOU HAVE TO REPORT YOUR TIME EVERY SINGLE DAY OF THE WEEK -- EVERY SINGLE DAY OF THE WEEK?

>> IF YOU ARE DOING THAT, IT -- I THINK IT WOULD STILL BE LEGAL FOR A DIFFERENT REASON BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT HAVING THEM REPORT

ALL OF THEIR TIME -- >> NO, YOU REPORT ALL YOUR TIME

EVERY SINGLE DAY OF THE WEEK. >> OH, SORRY, I THOUGHT YOU SAID

JUST THE DAY YOU ARE REMOTE. >> THAT IS WHAT I WAS SAYING.

WHAT HE IS SAYING IS, OH, HEY, CAN WE HAVE -- LET ME REPHRASE IT FOR YOU. CAN WE HAVE SALARIED EMPLOYEES REPORT ALL THE HOURS THAT THEY WORK EVERY SINGLE DAY, IN ORDER FOR THEM TO GET COMP

TIME? >> YES.

>> YES? >> YES. THAT, YES.

>> SO, I WOULD HAVE TO PUT EIGHT HOURS TODAY, EIGHT HOURS TOMORROW, EIGHT HOURS THE DAY AFTER THAT, THEN PUT 12 HOURS, THEN EIGHT HOURS, AND EIGHT HOURS, SO YOU COULD DO THAT?

>> YOU COULD DO THAT, YES. >> HERE IS ONE THING I LIKE ABOUT GOVERNMENT, YOU FIND AN ISSUE, AND YOU CREATE A TON OF POLICIES, AND YOU HAVE TO HIRE A COUPLE OF PEOPLE, AND BUDGETS HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS, AND YOU END UP SAVING YOURSELF 50 BUCKS. SO, THAT IS MORE OF A FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ISSUE. BUT, I DO THINK THERE IS SOMETHING TO BE SAID TO WHERE, IF WE WERE TO LOOK AT -- NOT ANYTIME SOON -- BUT, IF WE WERE TO LOOK AT TRACKING TIME, WHAT WOULD THAT TAKE FROM AN EMPLOYEE? HOW MUCH TIME IN EFFORT, JUST IF YOU DID GET -- IF THE PUBLIC DID WANT TO SAY -- LOOK, WE DID KEEP GOOD TRACK OF IT BECAUSE IT IS A BENEFIT WE ARE GIVEN -- I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH COMP TIME WE HAVE, YOU MIGHT TELL ME WE ARE SURPRISED THAT THERE IS ANY COMP TIME BEING USED OR I MIGHT LOOK AT THE COMP TIME OR THE PUBLIC MIGHT LOOK AT IT AND GO, "HOLY COW, WHY IS EVERYBODY WORKING SO MUCH?" IN THE FIND OUT, IT IS KIND OF AN HONOR SYSTEM, THEY JUST SAY, HEY, I WORKED FOUR HOURS OVER MY EIGHT HOURS SHIFT, I GET FOUR HOURS OF COMP TIME, IT MAY COME TO, MAYBE WE NEED TO COME TO SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN WHERE IT IS NOT OVERLY BURDENSOME, I DON'T WANT TO GET

[02:35:02]

INTO THE WEEDS, AND OVER MANAGE, BUT YOU DO WANT TO MAKE SURE, ONE, WE ARE NOT OVERWORKING PEOPLE. BUT, WE ARE ALSO NOT -- I MEAN, 10 8010 USED TO BE THE STANDARD, RIGHT? TENANT NEVER WILL, 80 ALWAYS WILL, AND 10 IN BETWEEN. SO, THERE HAS TO BE SOME PEOPLE WHO KIND OF, YOU KNOW, I --

>> YEAH, WE DON'T REALLY HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY FOR PEOPLE TO SAY, "I WORKED FOUR HOURS OVER," AND I GET IT. LIKE, THAT DOESN'T EXIST. BUT, WHAT DOES EXIST, EVERYONE THAT WAS REQUIRED TO BE HERE FOR THE MEETING TONIGHT, THEY ARE ALL GOING TO PUT IN, YOU KNOW, HOWEVER MANY HOURS WE WERE HERE FOR TONIGHT, FOR COMP TIME. NOW, THEY MIGHT TURN RIGHT AROUND TOMORROW AND USE IT, BUT AT LEAST I HAD A RECORD, TO WHERE IF SOMEONE SAYS, HEY, I SEE, YOU KNOW, DAVID OUT AT THE MOVIES AT 2:00 ON FRIDAY, OR WHATEVER, I WOULD BE LIKE, YEAH, HE USED FOUR HOURS OF COMP TIME SO THAT HE COULD BE OUT AT THE MOVIES ON

FRIDAY. >> SO, I JUST HAD ONE QUESTION.

IN THE TEAMS APP, THERE IS AN ABILITY FOR YOU TO SET YOUR WORK LOCATION. WOULD YOU ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO DO THAT?

>> YEAH. >> SO, IF SOMEBODY IS USUALLY HOME, THEY ARE WONDERING, HEY, WHERE IS SO-AND-SO? YOU COULD ASK SOMEBODY TO PULL IT UP, I COULD PULL IT UP AND SAY, "OH, IT SAYS THEY ARE REMOTE, THEY ARE WORKING REMOTE."

>> I AM NOT AUDITING RIGHT NOW, BUT THAT IS THE EXPECTATION. IF YOU ARE OUT OF OFFICE, YOU SET THE OUT OF OFFICE MESSAGE, IF YOU ARE REMOTE, YOU PUT A REMOTE MESSAGE IN YOUR STATUS, AND THAT IS JUST THE EXPECTATION. BUT, I AM NOT CURRENTLY AUDITING THAT, SO I CAN'T TELL YOU, WITH CERTAINTY, THAT EVERYBODY IS

DOING IT EVERYTHING OF TIME. >> IT WILL BE AFTER TODAY.

LAUGHTER ] >> SARAH, THANKS.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH, COUNCIL.

>> ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR --

>> JUST ONE LITTLE COMMENT. ON YOUR -- WHERE WAS IT? JUST TALKING ABOUT -- WHAT WAS INELIGIBLE? GETTING COMFORTABLE, HERE. COMP TIME, RECOMMENDED CLARITY ON THAT, BUT ALSO A LITTLE DISTURBING THAT SOME OF THE NONMANAGEMENT EMPLOYEES WERE KIND OF UNDERREPORTING. SO, IF PEOPLE ARE WORKING HARD, I WANT THEM TO BE, YOU KNOW, GETTING THAT BENEFIT.

>> YES, THAT GOES UP ON PAYROLL.

>> BUT, LEGITIMATELY WORKING, WORKING HARD. I DON'T WANT THEM TO FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE IN REPORTING THAT. I THINK THAT IS A BIG EMPHASIS FOR MY CONCERN, IS THAT CLARIFICATION OF WHAT THAT ENTAILS, SO IT IS REALLY VERY CLEAR FOR MANAGEMENT OR NONMANAGEMENT EMPLOYEES, WHAT IS ELIGIBLE. SO, I APPRECIATE YOU

[12.2. Discussion and Possible Action regarding Comprehensive Strategies for Water and Wastewater Utility Rate Stabilization. (Councilmember King)]

BRINGING ON THAT SUGGESTION. THANK YOU PEERED

>> OF COURSE. OKAY, HAVE A GOOD EVENING. OKAY, HAVE A GOOD NIGHT. NEXT, 12.2, DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE ACTION REGARDING COMPREHENSIVE STRATEGIES FOR WATER AND WASTEWATER UTILITY

RATE STABILIZATION. >> THE REASON THAT I AM BRINGING THIS FORWARD IS AFTER OUR LAST VOTE, WHICH DID INCREASE WATER AND WASTEWATER RATES, I HEARD FROM OUR CITIZENS, HOLDING US ACCOUNTABLE, AND ASKING WHY THIS VOTE WAS PUSHED THROUGH. NOW, I CAN ONLY SPEAK FOR MYSELF. AND IT'S MORE OF AN AGENDA PACKET AT THE TIME. THE MAJORITY OF THE AGENDA PACKET, I DIDN'T HAVE AN ISSUE WITH. BUT, IN THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE, THIS IS PART OF THAT. SO, WHEN THE VOTE CAME, FIVE OF US VOTED FOR IT. I APPRECIATE THE CITIZENS THAT CALLED ME ON IT TO HOLD ME ACCOUNTABLE TO IT -- AND THE REASON I AM BRINGING THIS UP IS MOVING IN THE FUTURE, I WANT US TO LOOK AT WAYS THAT WE CAN LOOK AT GROWTH-DRIVEN APPROACHES AS AN EXAMPLE. TO MANAGE -- TO MAYBE MANAGE THE CITY'S WATER AND WASTEWATER SYSTEM. MAYBE SOME COST CUTTING IMPROVEMENTS, OR EFFICIENCY, MAKE GROWTH PAY FOR ITSELF. BECAUSE THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE ON A FIXED INCOME WHO ARE GETTING HIT WITH THIS, AND TO ME, THAT WAS A MISTAKE VOTE. I'LL BE OPEN, I'LL BE HONEST, I'LL BE TRANSPARENT. I DIDN'T LIKE THE VOTE. I REGRET THE VOTE. AND MOVING FORWARD, IN THE FUTURE, I AM HOPING THAT WE CAN LOOK AT OPTIONS TO NOT

[02:40:08]

IMPACT THE CITIZENS AS MUCH, BUT USE WHAT WE HAVE AT OUR DISPOSAL TO PROTECT THE RESIDENTS FROM HIGHER RATES AND ENSURE RELIABLE INFRASTRUCTURE. THAT'S WHY I'M BRINGING THIS UP.

>> THANK YOU, SIR. QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS?

>> I'LL SAY THAT, AFTER THE VOTE, AARON, COUNCILMEMBER KING, CALLED ME KIND OF CONCERNED. AND I SAID, "IN MY MIND --" AND OBVIOUSLY, I THINK DIFFERENTLY THAN A LOT OF PEOPLE, NOT ALWAYS THE WRONG WAY, BUT MANY TIMES, PROBABLY NOT THE RIGHT WAY, WE WILL SAY. I FEEL LIKE ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT WE HAVE IN THIS CITY AND ON THE COUNCIL, IS THAT WE MAKE DECISIONS WITHOUT AN OVERALL GOAL. SO, LIKE, IF YOU TAKE NUMBER FOUR, ATTRACTING NONRESIDENTIAL GROWTH SUPPORTING COMMERCIAL INDUSTRIAL MANUFACTURING PROJECTS TO GENERATE NEW UTILITY AND TAX REVENUE WITHOUT IMPACTING RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY TAXES, WE HAVE NEVER DONE THAT. EVERY INDUSTRIAL PROJECT, WE HAVE SUNK, WHAT WAS IT, MAYBE $30 MILLION INTO THE PROPERTY THAT RAISED WATER RATES? I SAY ONE, COULD BE WASTEWATER, BUT THE

BILL -- >>

>> WE STILL HAVE ALL THE LINES ON THE NORTH SIDE OF COMMENTED WOULD -- COTTONWOOD TO PUT IN. SO, WE RAISED PEOPLES WATERS REASON I TOLD AARON, I SAID, I THINK WHAT WE NEED TO DO, AS A COUNCIL, IS WE HAVE A LOT OF SMART PEOPLE. I THINK YOU GUYS ARE SMART. WE PAY YOU GUYS A LOT OF MONEY. YOU HAVE A LOT OF EXPERIENCE. I TOLD AARON, I THINK WHAT WE DO IS WE SET UP A POLICY AND WE SAY, "LOOK, IT DOESN'T MEAN WE ARE NOT GOING TO," IT IS LIKE A REVENUE THING. BUT, IT IS LIKE, WE TELL STAFF, WE ARE NOT RAISING WATER RATES NEXT YEAR AND WE ARE NOT GOING TO RAISE IT, SO YOU GUYS HAVE 10 MONTHS TO FIGURE OUT WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN, SO THAT WHEN YOU BRING A PROJECT UP, INSTEAD OF SAYING, STAFF SUPPORTS IT, STAFF SAYS, "WELL, HOLD ON, WE DON'T SUPPORT SPENDING $25 MILLION RUNNING THIS WATER LINE THROUGH HERE BECAUSE WE WANT TO RUN THIS WATERLINE THROUGH HERE TO HELP THE BUSINESS DEVELOP, WE ARE ACTUALLY TRIGGERING A $1.50 INCREASE IN THE WATER RATES NEXT YEAR AND THEN WE GO TO THE PERSON WITH AND WE SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT? I'M SORRY, I DON'T WANT YOU TO COME INTO OUR CITY AND ENTER INTO OUR CCN BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT TO SPEND $20 MILLION BECAUSE WE KNOW THE IMPACT. THAT IS WHAT I THINK, FOR ME, WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL FOR US. IT DOESN'T MEAN WE CAN'T RAISE, IT JUST MEANS EVERY DECISION WE MAKE, WE HAVE A GOAL. WE ARE NOT RAISING WATER RATES, WE ARE NOT RAISING WASTEWATER RATES. SO, EVERY DECISION WE MAKE GOES TO THAT, INSTEAD OF RIGHT NOW, WE SAY, WE ARE HERE TO DIVERSIFY THE TAX SPACE, BUT IN SIX YEARS OF BEING UP HERE, WE HAVE DIVERSIFIED ATTACKS SPACE BY SHIFTING THE COST BURDEN AROUND TO WATER RATES, WATER BILLS, AWAY FROM OTHERS. SO, AND -- AND IN THAT WAY, SEVEN OF US ARE WITH YOUR ENTIRE STAFF, ALL FOCUSED ON ONE THING. WE ARE NOT RAISING TAXES, WE ARE NOT RAISING WATER AND WASTEWATER RATES. AND SO, HOW DO WE MAKE BETTER DECISIONS SO WE DON'T DO THAT? BUT, THAT IS WHAT I THINK WOULD BE VERY, VERY HELPFUL, AND THEN WE COULD ALWAYS COME AT THE END OF THE YEAR SAY, WE TRY TO HARNESS, WE HAVE TO GO UP A DOLLAR $.50, BUT RIGHT NOW, I WOULD JUST SAY THAT ALL OF OUR DECISIONS ARE -- HONESTLY, THEY ARE VERY SHORTSIGHTED, I THINK.

BUT -- THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO GET SOMEONE TO SAY SOMETHING.

LAUGHTER ] >> WELL, I'D LIKE TO SAY SOMETHING. AYE. FOR SURPRISE! PAST WAS THE RATE INCREASES FOR THE NEXT THREE YEARS -- AND DON'T QUOTE ME ON THIS -- BUT $14, $10, THEN EIGHT DOLLARS, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, AROUND $30 OVER THE NEXT THREE YEARS. AS SOME OF THESE TIRZ MONEY AND OTHER FUNDING BECOMES AVAILABLE, COUNCIL CAN ALWAYS COME BACK AND ADJUST THOSE RATE INCREASES, TO THE BENEFIT OF CITIZENS. SO, JUST BECAUSE THIS VOTE WENT IN FOR A THREE YEAR RATE INCREASE, DOESN'T MEAN THAT THAT IS GOING TO BE FOR ALL -- THAT IS WHAT IS GOING TO BE FOR ALL THREE YEARS. AND IF ANYONE ELSE ON COUNCIL OR STAFF CAN COMMENT ON THAT, AS WELL? BUT, I MEAN, WE CAN ALWAYS REVIEW THAT DECISION, THOSE FUNDING SOURCES, AND SO A PROPERTY, EDC. WHICH, THE EDC IS WORKING DILIGENTLY TO MAKE THAT

[02:45:03]

HAPPEN. THERE ARE UNDER -- OTHER FUNDING SOURCES THAT HAVE COME ONLINE, IT IS JUST, WHEN ARE THEY GOING TO HAPPEN AND HOW CAN THIS APPLY TO THE WATER RATE? SO, THIS ISN'T THE LAST DECISION ON WATER RATES, THE COUNCIL CAN ANYTIME GO BACK AND

LOOK AT THEM. OKAY, THANK YOU. >> SO, COUNCILMEMBER, I WILL JUST RESPOND IN THE SENSE OF SAYING, THAT THE COUNCIL ONLY AUTHORIZED THE FIRST YEAR INCREASE.

>> OKAY, THANK YOU. >> BECAUSE GENERALLY SPEAKING -- NOW, TRANSPARENCY -WISE, WE DID THE CONSULTING WORK TO KNOW, BASED OFF THE ASSUMPTIONS THAT WE HAVE TODAY, IF EVERYTHING STAYS GOING THE WAY IT HAS BEEN GOING, THIS IS WHAT WE WOULD

PROJECT WOULD HAPPEN, OKAY? >> OKAY.

>> RIGHT? IN FUTURE YEARS. BUT, THE ONLY COMMITMENT THAT COUNCIL HAS MADE AT THIS POINT, IS INCREASING THE RATES TO EFFECT THIS YEAR. SO, NOT YEAR TWO, THREE, FOUR, OR FIVE.

>> OKAY, THANKS FOR THE CLARIFICATION.

>> YEAH, FOR SURE. THE SECOND THING IS, IS THAT, COUNCILMEMBER KING, YOU KNOW, TALK TO ME PRETTY EXTENSIVELY ABOUT THIS, AND I APPRECIATE ALL THE WORK THAT HE PUT IN, THE AGENDA ITEM OF LISTING OUT ALL OF THE THINGS HE WAS INTERESTED IN. I CAN SAY, WITH A STRAIGHT FACE, THAT ALL OF THOSE THINGS ARE THINGS THAT WE DO. SO, LIKE, I CAN GIVE YOU SOME EXAMPLES. SO, LIKE, TWO YEARS AGO, WHEN WE WERE FIRST STARTING WITH THE EXCEL SHEET AND ALL OF THE NUMBERS, AND WE WERE LIKE, WE WILL GO UP $200, ALL OF THIS SORT OF STUFF. TWO YEARS AGO, I TOLD PUBLIC WORKS -- I.E., UTILITIES -- YOU ARE NOT GETTING ANY MORE PERSONNEL.

BECAUSE I CAN SEE WHAT IS HAPPENING, AND I KNOW WHAT THE IMPACT IS GOING TO BE. WE CANNOT INCREASE PERSONNEL COSTS . YOU KNOW? WHAT ELSE CAN WE DECREASE? IF SO, WE PUT OFF EQUIPMENT PURCHASES AND OTHER THINGS IN THE BUDGET, SO THE BUDGETS THAT YOU GUYS GOT WERE EFFECTIVELY WHAT I THOUGHT WERE THE BARE MINIMUM. THIS YEAR, I EVEN TOOK FTES AWAY FROM UTILITIES. I REDUCED THAT EVEN FURTHER SO THAT THE IMPACT WOULD BE EVEN LESS. SO, THAT IS ON THE SPIN SIDE. ON THE REVENUE SIDE, WE DO -- YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS IS GROWTH PAYING FOR GROWTH, THAT SORT OF STUFF. WE DO TRY TO CAPTURE EVERY OPPORTUNITY THAT WE HAVE, TO HAVE DEVELOPERS CONTRIBUTE OR PAY, SO ON, SO FORTH. BUT, LEGALLY, WE CANNOT REQUIRE THEM TO PAY MORE THAN WHAT THEIR FAIR SHARE IS. SO, THAT DOES MEAN, SOMETIMES, WE END UP HAVING TO FRONT AN EXPENSE, THAT MAYBE WE WOULDN'T HAVE BASED ON OUR SCHEDULE OF EXPENSES, BECAUSE THE DEVELOPER IS BUILDING THE LINE, NOW, AND IF THEY ARE GOING TO -- IF WE ARE GOING TO HAVE THE BENEFIT OF GETTING SOME COST SAVINGS, WE NEED TO PUT MONEY UP FRONT, EARLY. AND THAT IS THE WASTEWATER, WATER COST-SHARING AGREEMENTS WE HAVE BEEN DOING, BUT I HAVE EVEN TOLD STAFF NOW, WE REALLY NEED TO STOP AND REASSESS EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE, BECAUSE EVERY SINGLE TIME THAT WE PUT CAPITAL IN, IT DRAWS DOWN A FUND BALANCE, WHICH DRAWS US DOWN INTO A PROBLEM AREA FASTER, WHICH MEANS MORE RATE INCREASES, POTENTIALLY, IN THE INTERIM PART. THE TAX INCREMENT REINVESTMENT ZONE, THAT IS THE ONE THAT I AM MOST EXCITED ABOUT, BECAUSE UP TO THIS YEAR, THE TAX INCREMENT REINVESTMENT ZONE FOR THE MEGA SITE HAS NOT GENERATED REVENUE OF SUBSTANCE.

$10,000, $50,000, WHATEVER, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. SO, IT HASN'T REALLY GENERATED REVENUE OF SUBSTANCE, THIS IS THE FIRST YEAR IT REALLY DID AND NOW IT CAN SEND MONEY OVER. SO, THE MORE THAT WE CAN BIND THOSE OPPORTUNITIES -- AND I LIKE THE IDEA OF HAVING A GOAL OF NO INCREASE, BECAUSE ULTIMATELY, THAT IS THE GOAL -- OR, ACTUALLY, THE GOAL WOULD BE TO HAVE THE RATES DECREASE, YES, THAT WOULD BE THE GOAL.

>> THERE, YOU GO. NOW, WE ARE TALKING.

>> HOWEVER, I ALSO UNDERSTAND THAT THE REALITY OF THE WORLD WE ARE IN AND IT IS NOT FAIR, BUT WE ARE HAVING -- THE LAST THREE YEARS WE HAVE BEEN HAVING TO PLAY CATCH-UP AND IT IS NOT FAIR, BUT THAT IS THE TRUTH, IT IS WHAT IT IS. I DO THINK THERE ARE SOME DECISIONS THAT, COMING FORWARD, THAT THE COUNCIL CAN ASK THESE VERY POINTED QUESTIONS ABOUT, AND MAYBE WE MAKE DIFFERENT DECISIONS RATHER THAN, YES, LET'S JUST DO THE DEAL BECAUSE IT IS NEAT, AND PRETTY, AND ALL THAT SORT OF STUFF. I THINK THERE IS A LOT OF OPPORTUNITY FOR THAT. BUT, WE ALSO HAVE TO BE CAREFUL BECAUSE A LOT OF THE ABILITY TO KEEP THE RATES LOWER IS PREDICATED OFF OF IMPACT FEES COMING IN, AND IF WE DON'T HAVE PROJECTS GENERATING IMPACT FEES, THEN THE IMPACT FEES CAN'T PAY FOR THE DEBT SERVICE, AND NOW WE ARE RIGHT BACK TO RATES HAVING TO GO UP TO PAY. SO, IT IS DELICATE, BUT I DO THINK THAT THE SPIRIT OF WHAT COUNCILMEMBER KING IS ASKING FOR, AND ARGUABLY, MAYOR, WHAT YOU SPOKE TO, I THINK THE SPIRIT OF THAT IS 100% SOMETHING WE CAN STRIVE FOR, AND CERTAINLY, WE

[02:50:10]

CAN BE -- WE CAN HAVE BETTER CONVERSATIONS NOW WITH COUNCIL ON WHAT THINGS WE ARE TRYING TO DO, IN ORDER TO REDUCE THE IMPACT ON INCREASED WATER RATES, OR OUR UTILITY RATES, BECAUSE IT IS WATER AND WASTEWATER. INCREASED UTILITY RATES. SO, I DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING THAT WAS IN THE LIST THAT I WAS LIKE, "MAN, I DON'T KNOW HOW WE WOULD DO THAT." OR, "I CAN'T BELIEVE I DIDN'T THINK ABOUT THAT." WE ARE PRETTY MUCH DOING THOSE THINGS ALREADY. IT IS NOT BEARING FRUIT IN THE WAY THAT I THINK THE PUBLIC WOULD WANT IT TO BEAR FRUIT. BUT, THE REASON -- I DON'T EVEN WANT TO SAY IT THIS WAY -- BUT, A GOOD PART OF THE REASON WHY THE RATE INCREASES WEREN'T HIGHER WERE BECAUSE OF SOME OF THE DECISIONS YOU WERE MAKING PRIOR TO A YEAR AGO, TWO YEARS AGO, IN PREPARATION FOR THIS COMING. AND KNOWING THAT, THE WATER SYSTEM HAS TO GET UPGRADED, WE HAD TO DO THIS, WE HAD TO DO THIS. NOW, DO WE DO THE NEXT PHASE OF DEVELOPMENT, OR THE NEXT PHASE OF EXPANSION? THAT'S THE STUFF THAT WE CAN CONTROL NOW, BECAUSE WE TOOK CARE OF THE STUFF THAT WE WERE SOMEWHAT CATCHING UP ON. SO -- I HOPE THAT IS ENOUGH TO KIND OF STATE THAT I, PERSONALLY, EMBRACE THIS CONCEPT, AND I KNOW THE STAFF DOES, TOO. AND I AM EXCITED TO SEE WHAT WE CAN ACCOMPLISH TOGETHER. I DON'T THINK THAT THIS IS A DRACONIAN CONCEPT OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, THAT MIGHT BE USED, BECAUSE IT IS LITERALLY WHAT WE DO. BUT, EVERYONE DOESN'T NECESSARILY SEE ALL THE EFFORT THAT GOES IN, TRYING TO REDUCE COSTS, AND TRYING TO PREDICT, YOU KNOW, REVENUE STREAMS AND ALL THAT SORT OF STUFF TO GET IT BALANCED. I MEAN, FOR GOODNESS SAKES, TWO YEARS AGO, WE DIDN'T EVEN KNOW, LIKE, WHAT THINGS WERE GOING TO COST BECAUSE WE DIDN'T HAVE A CIP. SO, WE NOW HAVE TOOLS AVAILABLE TO BE ABLE TO HAVE THESE CONVERSATIONS IN A MEANINGFUL WAY THAT Y'ALL CAN UNDERSTAND AND Y'ALL CAN CONVEY TO THE PUBLIC, OR THE PUBLIC CAN HEAR FROM US AND THAT SORT OF STUFF. --

>> THANK YOU. WITH THAT, I DIRECT STAFF TO BRING BACK A RESOLUTION AT THE NEXT MEETING, THAT COUNCILMEMBER KING AND I WORK WITH YOU ON IN THE WORDING, THAT BASICALLY, IT --

>> THE GOAL IS ZERO INCREASES. >> THE GOAL IS ZERO INCREASES, GOING FORWARD, AND KIND OF THE PROCESS FOR HOW OUR DECISIONS GET SHAPED AND THAT KIND OF THINGS. FINDING NOT NECESSARILY ON US, BUT IT WILL BE SOMETHING FOR THE PUBLIC.

>> IT'S JUST A SIMPLE POLICY DIRECTION, SO --

>> SO, THAT'S MY MOTION. >> I WILL SECOND THAT.

>> SECOND BY MAYOR PRO TEM THORNTON. AND I WILL JUST ADD THIS ONE THING ON WHAT YOU SAID, THE ONLY THING I AM HOPING IS -- AND I AM NOT TRYING TO SAY, THIS IS GOING TO COME OFF AS NARCISSISTIC -- BUT I DON'T WANT TO BE THE ONE THAT BRINGS UP WE SHOULD DO A TIRZ ON 130, MY EXPECTATION IS STAFF SAYS, HEY, WE HAVE SO MUCH DEVELOPMENT COMING ON THIS CORRIDOR, YOU GUYS OUGHT TO BE THINKING ABOUT THIS. OR, STAFF COMES BACK AND SAYS, YOU ARE GETTING READY TO CLOSE ON A $26 MILLION PROPERTY WITH EDC, THE EDC IN MY MIND, SHOULD BE BEING PRESENTED THINGS WITH, HEY, WITH THIS $26 MILLION, YOU GOT THREE OPTIONS.

THIS ONE OPTION, YOU CAN GET $100 MILLION IN MONEY TO USE FOR INFRASTRUCTURE, AND HERE IS THE PROJECTS THAT, IN TALKING TO THE EDC ATTORNEYS, THIS WILL WORK. AND IF WE TAKE ALL THIS OUT, THIS IS HOW IT TRIGGERS OVER HERE, NOW IT LIMITS YOUR ABILITY TO BUY SOME BUILDINGS HERE, BUT THAT IS WHAT I AM HOPING, AS STAFF, THAT WITH THIS RESOLUTION, YOU GUYS, US, WE ARE ALL GOING, OKAY, LOOK, I READ AN ARTICLE, THEY DID THIS IN SUCH AND SUCH A CITY IN TEXAS, CAN WE DO THAT? YES, ACTUALLY, WE CAN, AND WE ARE WORKING TOGETHER TO COME UP WITH THIS THING WHERE -- YEAH. I DID WANT TO HIJACK WHAT YOU WERE DOING, OR NOT.

>> ALL GOOD. >> I GUESS WE WILL FIND OUT, HERE. ALL RIGHT. ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? ALL RIGHT, PLEASE

CALL THE VOTE. >> COUNCILMEMBER MORRIS?

>> AYE. >> COUNCILMEMBER GORDON?