* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. PRETTY TIGHT OVER THERE. YOU'RE [00:00:01] NOT, UH, FIVE, SIX O'CLOCK. [1. CALL SESSION TO ORDER ] WE'LL CALL THE CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION FOR THURSDAY, DECEMBER 18TH, 2025 TO ORDER. WE'LL START WITH ROLL CALL COUNCIL MEMBER THOMPSON. COUNCILOR MORRIS? HERE. COUNCILOR GORDON? HERE. COUNCILOR PORTERFIELD. HERE. COUNCILOR KING? HERE. MAYOR THORNTON. HERE. MAYOR HERE. FIRST ITEMS THREE. ONE [3.1. Downtown parking options. (Matt Rector, City Engineer)] DOWNTOWN PARKING OPTIONS. GOOD EVENING, MAYOR AND COUNCIL FOR THE RECORD. MATT, DIRECTOR, YOUR EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF DEVELOPMENT AND INFRASTRUCTURE, YOUR CITY ENGINEER, DEVELOPMENT SERVICES DIRECTOR, AND YOUR PLANNING MANAGER. GLAD YOU GOT PROMOTED. THAT'S AWESOME. AND APPLE CYBER GURU. UH, SO THIS THIS WORK SESSION IS A, IS A REVISIT OF ONE THAT WE'VE HAD A FEW SESSIONS ON, WHICH IS THE DOWNTOWN STREET. SO JUST TO RECAP FOR YOU GUYS, WE ORIGINALLY STARTED TALKING ABOUT THIS BACK IN AUGUST OF 24. IT WAS ONE OF THESE SESSIONS WHERE WE SAID, TRY TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO FIT DRAINAGE, SIDEWALKS, PARKING, WALKABILITY, ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF INTO THE DOWNTOWN OLD TOWN AREA. AND SO WE SAID, WHAT IF WE CONSIDER DOING SOME ONE WAY STREETS AND THAT KIND OF THING? SO WE, WE STARTED EXPLORING THAT IN FEBRUARY OF 25. WE PRESENTED A CONCEPTUAL MAP TO CITY COUNCIL AND THEN CATHOLIC RECORD, DO HOPE THE PUBLIC MEETING AND DO A SURVEY, WHICH WOULD'VE BEEN DONE IN FEBRUARY 25 AND APRIL. WE BROUGHT THE PRESENTATION OF THE SURVEY AND THE RESULTS BACK FOR MORE FEEDBACK. UM, WE GOT SOME FEEDBACK FROM COUNCIL IN JUNE. WE PRESENTED DRAFT LAYOUTS, UH, WITH PARKING NUMBERS. AND THAT IS, THIS IS WHAT YOU SAW IN JUNE, IS, UH, SOMETHING VERY CLOSE TO THIS ACTUALLY. IT WAS THIS. UH, AND SO THIS SHOWS YOU THE DIRECTIONS THAT WE WERE ORIGINALLY THINKING, YOU KNOW, SOUTHBOUND ON EAST, SOUTHBOUND ON MAIN, NORTH ON WEST. AND THESE WERE THE PARKING CHANGES THAT WE WOULD HAVE ABOUT A HUN GOING FROM ABOUT 141 IN THE DOWNTOWN OLD TOWN AREA TO ABOUT 400. UH, SO THEN STAFF WAS DIRECTED TO, TO START COORDINATING WITH THE DOWNTOWN HUDDLE BUSINESS ASSOCIATION. AND, UM, WE STARTED WORKING WITH THEM IN JULY OF 25. AND BASED ON THEIR FEEDBACK AND CITY COUNCIL DIRECTIONS THAT WE HAD RECEIVED, WE UPDATED THE MAP. SO YOU CAN SEE HERE, THIS IS THE UPDATED MAP. UM, IT'S GOT NORTHBOUND EAST SOUTHBOUND MAIN NORTHBOUND WEST. UH, MOST OF THE CROSS STREETS ARE TWO WAY STILL. UH, AND SO HERE IS THE PARKING. YOU CAN SEE IT DIDN'T CHANGE DRASTICALLY. IT GOES FROM ABOUT 141 TO 400, A LITTLE OVER 400 SPACES THROUGH. NOW, ONE THING THAT I DO WANT TO CLARIFY, AND I CLARIFIED THIS WITH THE, UH, DOWNTOWN HU HUDDLE BUSINESS ASSOCIATION AS WELL, WE DID NOT DO ON THE GROUND SURVEY FRONTS, ALL OF THIS WORK, ALL OF THIS DESIGN, ALL THIS CONCEPT WAS DONE BY IN-HOUSE STAFF USING GIS DATA. SO IT HASN'T COST US ANYTHING OTHER THAN STAFF TIME SO FAR, JUST CONCEPTUAL AT THIS POINT, COMPLETELY CONCEPTUAL. GOT IT. UM, COULD YOU GO BACK ONE SLIDE? SO THE ZEROS THAT YOU'VE GOT CURRENTLY TODAY, YOU CAN PARK ON THOSE STREETS JUST, YOU KNOW, PARALLEL PARKING, RIGHT? SO IS IT A TRUE ZERO OR IS IT BECAUSE THERE'S, YOU'RE JUST COUNTING, THERE'S ACTUALLY NOT A, A DEDICATED PARKING SPACE. WE, YEAH, WE, WE DID NOT COUNT IF, IF THERE WASN'T A DEDICATED PARKING SPACE, WE DIDN'T COUNT IT AS PARKING. SO THIS IS JUST A SIDE BY SIDE COMPARISON FOR YOU TO SEE WHAT YOU HAD IN JUNE VERSUS WHAT WE DID AFTER THE MEETINGS IN JULY. AND YOU CAN SEE NOT A LOT CHANGED WITH THE EXCEPTION OF, UH, WE REROUTED, UH, EAST TO BE NORTHBOUND ONLY INSTEAD OF SOUTHBOUND ONLY. AND THAT SECTION OF BARLEY, UH, WHERE WE HAD SAID IT WAS GOING TO BE WESTBOUND ONLY COUNCILS SUGGESTED THAT WE DO IT TWO WAY, BUT ADD IN A RIGHT IN, RIGHT OUT ONLY AT 1660, WE MADE THAT EDIT. UM, AND THEN HERE'S THE COMPARISON OF THE PARKING. YOU CAN SEE NOT A LOT CHANGED. UM, THE LAST, UH, CORRESPONDENCE THAT I HAD WITH THE DOWNTOWN HUDDLE BUSINESS ASSOCIATION WAS IN LATE JULY. I MEAN, WE, WE'VE BEEN EMAILING RECENTLY, BUT THERE WAS A, A BIG GAP IN THERE. BASICALLY SAID THAT, UH, AND THAT IS IN YOUR PACKET. ALL THOSE EMAILS ARE IN YOUR PACKET. UH, THAT WHILE THEY WEREN'T A HUNDRED PERCENT ON BOARD WITH THIS, THEY WERE OKAY WITH THE CONCEPT AND THERE OBVIOUSLY NEEDED TO BE SOME THINGS. SO I TOLD THEM THE SAME THING, THAT IF ALL GIS BASED WE WOULD NEED TO DO ON THE GROUND SURVEY AND GO AND CHECK FOR LOO UTILITIES AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF. UM, SO THEY SAID, WELL, THEY WEREN'T A HUNDRED PERCENT ON BOARD AND WE WERE OKAY WITH THE CONCEPT AND THAT THEY WERE GOING TO FARM A PARKING COMMITTEE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, AND THAT THEY WOULD BE REACHING OUT. NOW, THAT'S PRETTY MUCH WHERE WE ARE AT AS OF TODAY. SO I'LL OPEN IT UP FOR ANY DISCUSSION, CONVERSATION, [00:05:01] SUGGESTIONS, ET CETERA. SO I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE HAD, UH, COMMUNICATION WITH THEM AND, AND THEY'RE HERE, SO THEY'RE FREE TO CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT I ATTENDED THEIR MEETING EARLIER THIS WEEKEND. IT SOUNDED LIKE THE, MAYBE THE ONLY, UH, RESERVATION TO THIS WAS JUST MAKING SURE THAT WE GET THE BA BEST BANG FOR THE BUCK. SO MY, MY TAKE ON THE, ON THE MEETING, UH, FROM THEIR MEETING THIS WEEK WAS THAT, YOU KNOW, WE WENT FROM 141 TO, YOU KNOW, 151 THAT MAYBE IT WOULDN'T BE WORTH PURSUING, RIGHT? BECAUSE YOU'RE CHANGING A BUNCH OF STATE STUFF. UH, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE, YOU'RE, HOW'S JAMES SAY SOMEBODY MOVED THE CHEESE. AND SO IT'S GONNA AFFECT EVERYBODY, BUT I THINK WE'RE GOING FROM 1 41 TO 4 0 1 THAT'S GONNA DRASTICALLY IMPACT DOWNTOWN AND CREATE A LOT OF OPPORTUNITY FOR, FOR BUSINESS DOWN THERE WITH, WITH PARKING. SO, UM, AND I WANNA THANK THE MEMBERS OF DHBA FOR BEING HERE. I KNOW DOWNTOWN SUPPORT. AND THEN I ALSO WANT YOU ALL KNOW, JUDGE SNELL IS HERE, WHICH KIND OF SHOWS SHOWS ME A LITTLE BIT THAT HE'S EVEN INTERESTED IN DOWNTOWN, BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY YOU GOT THE JUDGE MEETING GOING OVER DOWNTOWN. SO, UM, I KNOW THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF, UM, UM, EFFORT AND A LOT OF EYES ON THIS. UM, SO I APPRECIATE EVERYBODY HIS WORK ON, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH, UH, I LIKE THE DIRECTIONS, THE WAY WE, WE'VE CHANGED 'EM. I LIKE HOW WE DID FARLEY WITH THE, UH, WRITE IN WRITE OUT OPTION. IT WAS ACTUALLY TALKING TO CUSTOMER, UM, QUARTER FIELD THAT I THINK I COULD TALK BEFORE PHASES. FOR ME, PHASE ONE IS SET THE DIRECTIONS IN PLACE DIRECT STAFF TO START UPDATING WITH SIGNAGE AND THEN START UP, KEEP IT ALL TWO WAY, BUT UPDATING WITH SIGNAGE, UPDATING THE, UH, APPLE MAPS, GOOGLE MAPS, ALL THOSE PROGRAMS GO FOR A PERIOD OF LIKE BLINK OF LIGHTS ON A NEW, NEW, UH, SIGNAL. LET IT GO FOR THREE OR FOUR MONTHS AND THEN, UM, HAVE A PLAN FOR, OKAY, NOW WE ACTUALLY DO IT. MAYBE WE HAVE SOME TEMPORARY, UM, THOSE CONSTRUCTION SIGNS THAT REMIND EVERYBODY, LIKE IT'S NOW ONE WAY AFTER THE SIGNAGE. AND THEN I THINK PHASE TWO IS, UM, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT MAYBE WORKING WITH THE EDC IN TERMS OF, UM, WHEN YOU GET OUT TO MAIN AND WEST, YOU'RE ONLY TALKING TO A COUPLE PROPERTY OWNERS. AND RIGHT NOW THEY HAVE NO PARKING. AND SO MY LITTLE CRUDE, UH, MEASURING WE'RE ABOUT FIVE OR SIX FEET AWAY FROM BEING ABLE TO DO PARKING LIKE YOU HAVE HERE WITH OUR CURRENT RIGHT OF WAY. AND THAT, UM, THE EDC COULD THEN POTENTIALLY, IF THE ATTORNEY DEEMS IT BE AN ECONOMIC BILL, THE EDC COULD PAY FOR THE SURVEYING OF THE WORK, GET RIGHTS OF ENTRY AND, UM, WITH THE PEOPLE, AND THEN GO AND TRY TO QUICKLY PURCHASE A FIVE OR SIX FEET OF RIGHT OF WAY AND TO START BUDGETING. CAN'T DO ALL THIS IN ONE YEAR, BUT THE BUDGET NEXT YEAR, LET'S, LET'S GET THE, UH, RUN RIGHT OUT ON FARLEY. DONE. LET'S SOLVE, UH, REDO THE PARKING ON, UH, E STREET GOING NORTH ON THE RIGHT SIDE IN FRONT OF THE FOOD COURT ON FARLEY. WE CAN THEN PUT THE PARKING IN THERE, THEN RIGHT NOW IS NOT THERE. AND THEN EDC CAN LOOK AT BUDGETING MONEY TO KNOCK OUT ONE BLOCK AT A TIME EACH YEAR TO WHERE WE START AT 79, WORK OUR WAY NORTH AND EXPAND THE PARKING. AND I THINK BASED ON THAT, IT'LL START BRINGING MORE, UM, MORE PEOPLE THAT'LL WANT TO LOCATE IN DOWNTOWN WHERE WE HAVE A PARKING ISSUE TO SOME PEOPLE, UM, TO ALLEVIATE SOME OF THAT. BUT THEN HAVE DHB SPEAK SINCE THEY'RE HERE. YEAH, I THINK IT'S, CAN WE HAVE ANY INPUT SINCE THEY'RE HERE? YEAH. CAN YOU PULL UP OUR, SO WE HAD A MEETING ON MONDAY ABOUT THIS DHB DID, AND WE SENT YOU THE MINUTES. JUST WANNA CLARIFY THAT IT'S NOT THAT WE DON'T AGREE A HUNDRED PERCENT, IT'S THAT WE HAVE, WE'RE MORE CURIOUS AT, AS MIKE SAID, THE PHASE IS HOW ARE WE GONNA ROLL IT OUT, RIGHT? WE DON'T WANT TO START THIS, MAKE THIS ONE WAY AND NOT HAVE A CLEAR PATH FORWARD ALL THE WAY OUT. SO THAT'S WHAT WE'RE MORE CONCERNED ABOUT BECAUSE DOWNTOWN ISN'T SOMETHING THAT WE WANNA JUST, LET'S GIVE IT A SHOT AND SEE HOW IT GOES. SO THAT WAS, UM, THE MINUTES THAT WE TOOK FROM IT I THINK WAS SENT OUT TO PAUL. IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO PULL UP MATT? YEAH. OKAY. JUST GIMME ONE SECOND. I GOT A LOT OF EMAILS. YOU GOT A COUPLE TO GO THROUGH. AND AARON AND PETER, WE'VE TALKED A LOT IN EDC ABOUT, UH, ONE OF OUR PROJECTS AND THAT REALLY, I DON'T THINK IT'S A SECRET, BUT ONE OF OUR PROJECTS IS AN INVESTMENT IN DOWNTOWN, UH, FROM THE EDC TO REALLY KIND OF HELP REALLY START PUSHING [00:10:01] THINGS FORWARD. INSTEAD, US FIRST, I FEEL LIKE WE'VE BEEN ON THE FENCE FOR SO LONG IN THIS CITY ON WHAT DO WE DO FOR DOWNTOWN? DO WE DO THIS? AND WE GO BACK AND FORTH AND BACK AND FORTH AND WE JUST DO NOTHING. AND NOW I THINK THERE MIGHT BE ENOUGH PEOPLE TO GO, WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING. AND I FORGOT THE OLD PHRASE, BUT WHAT IS IT ABOUT DOING NOTHING THAT'S WORSE THAN DOING SOMETHING? SO WE'VE STUDIED THIS FOR OVER A YEAR THIS TIME AROUND. UM, CLOSE TO THAT, YEAH, SO I THINK THE NORTHBOUND EAST STREET THAT WAS, WE HAD THE OLD VERSION OF IT. SO THANK YOU FOR PROVIDING THAT FEEDBACK LINE MEETING GRANT. UM, THAT WAS BECAUSE YOU CAN'T REALLY TURN LEFT OUT OF E STREET ONTO 79, YOU'LL NEVER GET OUT. UM, BUT WE WOULD REALLY LIKE TO, AS MATT SAID, IT'S A CONCEPTUAL PLAN RIGHT NOW. SO WE CAN HAVE SOME BOOTS ON THE GROUND TO HAVE ACTUAL MEASUREMENTS. UM, DOWNTOWN TAYLOR KIND OF DID SOMETHING SIMILAR. I WAS DOWN THERE TODAY. IT'S, THE REASON WHY I BRING IT UP IS THEY MADE IT ONE WAY AND HAD ANGLE, BUT THEY DIDN'T ACTUALLY TAKE FULL MEASUREMENTS. SO THE SPOTS ARE REALLY SMALL. SO WE DON'T WANT THAT. WE DON'T WANT TO HAVE, WE DON'T WANNA GO FROM NOT ENOUGH PARKING TO IMPOSSIBLE PARKING WHERE PEOPLE ARE JUST STRADDLING THE LINE. SO THAT'S WHY THAT 0.1 IS VERY IMPORTANT. UM, AND THEN SECOND POINT, YOU ALREADY ADDRESSED THE E STREET AS NORTHBOUND. UM, AND THEN THE THIRD ONE IS THE MOST IMPORTANT. SO BUSINESSES DON'T WANNA LOSE PEOPLE BECAUSE IT'S ALL OF A SUDDEN ONE WAY AND PEOPLE DON'T KNOW. SO IF THE CITY CAN HELP US, LIKE COMMUNICATE THAT OUT IN PHASES, WOULD AMPLE NOTICE THIS IS WHAT'S GETTING ROLLED OUT, RIGHT? MAYBE ONE STREET AT A TIME, BUT IF WE CAN GET INVOLVED IN THE TIMING SO THAT WE CAN NOTIFY OUR PATRONS AND CLIENTS ALSO. SO, SO FAR THIS YEAR, SINCE KICKING OFF IN APRIL, I THINK WE'VE HAD REALLY GOOD COMMUNICATION WITH THE CITY MORE THAN WE'VE EVER HAD. SO WE APPRECIATE THAT. SO I THINK TOGETHER WITH TRANSPARENCY, THIS WILL BE A GOOD INTERMEDIARY STEP BEFORE FILLING A PARKING GARAGE OR SOMETHING. BUT WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING IS THE CONSENSUS OF THE DHBA. WE, WE'RE NOT GONNA GO FROM NOTHING TO A FIVE STORY GARAGE. SO WE SUPPORT, BUT PLEASE COMMUNICATE. THE ROLLOUT PLAN DOESN'T SOUND, IF WE WERE TO SIGN IT, SIGN IT AND UPDATE MAPS PROGRAMS, THEN DO THAT FOR A PERIOD OF WHATEVER, THREE MONTHS OR TWO MONTHS, WHATEVER THAT TIMEFRAME IS, AND THEN THE TIME WE START TO ACTUALLY MAKE THE CHANGE THAT WE HAVE, THEN ADDITIONAL SIGNS LIKE CONSTRUCTION SIGNS TO KIND OF CLEARING IS THAT, I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S AN EASY WAY TO DO THIS. 'CAUSE I, THIS ISN'T SOMETHING LIKE, YOU'VE PROBABLY NEVER DONE THIS BEFORE. HAVE YOU CONVERTED TO CONVERTED AN ENTIRE DOWNTOWN TO ? NO, I'VE NEVER DONE THAT. BUT IN MY MIND THAT'S, THAT'S JUST WHAT COMES TO MY MIND THAT, I MEAN THAT'S MORE INFORMATION GIVEN IN THE STOPLIGHT. 'CAUSE THE STOPLIGHT, IT BLINKS FOR LIKE A WEEK AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN, NEXT THING YOU KNOW, IT'S TURNS RED AND PEOPLE ARE RUNNING IT. I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THAT WAS THERE. AND YOU'RE LIKE, HOW DID YOU NOT KNOW THAT SIGNAL WAS THERE? BUT THAT'S WHAT I'M THINKING. THAT WAY THE DELIVERY DRIVERS, THE PEOPLE WHO RELY ON THE DOOR DASHERS WILL START TO KNOW THAT GIVES US THREE MONTHS OF THE SOCIAL MEDIA BREW HALL. THAT'LL HAPPEN. EITHER WE'RE DOING A REALLY GOOD JOB, THIS IS SMART. AND THEN THERE'LL BE A HALF OF SOCIAL MEDIA THAT'LL SAY, WE'RE IDIOTS. WHY WOULD YOU EVER DO THAT? BUT TO ME, THAT'LL HELP GET THE WORD OUT THAT ONE WAY OR ANOTHER IT'S, IT'S GOING ONE WAY. I THINK DOWNTOWN IS ACCUSTOMED TO ROAD CLOSURES AND STUFF WITH ALL THE EVENTS HAPPENING. SO I THINK THAT IS THE SILVER LINING. PEOPLE CAN BE ADAPTABLE. YOU KNOW, IF SHE LEARNED ANYTHING FROM Q4, UM, I DON'T KNOW IF WE HAVE AN INPUT, BUT MAYBE START WITH MAIN STREET ON WEST STREET WHERE THE TRAFFIC IS LOW. START THAT FIRST AND THEN E STREET IS LAST 'CAUSE THAT'S THE MOST HEAVY THOROUGHFARE OF THAT. JUST A SUGGESTION. BUT THE DHB ALSO CAME UP WITH ADDITIONAL IDEAS FOR INTERIM SOLUTIONS. IF THE COUNCIL'S INTERESTED IN INVESTIGATING, SUCH AS VACANT LOT OWNERS, RIGHT? WE BORROW TO DO TREE LIGHTINGS AND FULL-TIME AND THINGS LIKE THAT. BUT WOULD THERE BE SOMEWHERE IN THE BUDGET WHERE Y'ALL PAY FOR THE BASE AND THE GRAVEL AND WE CAN ACTUALLY HAVE PARKING THERE, RIGHT? OR UM, THERE ARE SOME BUSINESS OWNERS DOWN THERE WHO WANTED TO DO PERMITS FOR NEW PARKING AREAS WITHIN THEIR PROPERTY, RIGHT? AND THEN THE PERMIT PROCESS HAS BEEN SO PAINFUL. YOU KNOW, THEY'RE SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS, NOT PERMIT PEOPLE, RIGHT? AND SO IF WE CAN KIND OF LIKE ONE YEAR PING THAT AND ALLOW, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE THE SALON, RIGHT? YEP. YEP. SO HE'S BEEN GOING THROUGH THE PERMIT PROCESS, BUT IF HE HAS EIGHT PARKING SPOTS ON HIS LOT, THEN THAT BRINGS UP EIGHT MORE DOWNTOWN, RIGHT? SO THAT'S THE SECOND POINT. UM, THE THIRD ONE IS, UH, SHARING PARKING WITH NEARBY DEVELOPMENTS. WHO KNOWS WHAT'S GOING [00:15:01] ON AT THE CO-OP? IT'S A SEPARATE TOURS, BUT YOU KNOW, ALONG WEST STREET WE HEARD MAYBE THERE'S A MULTI-FAMILY COMING. CAN WE DO SOME SHARED PARKING THERE? UM, YOU GUYS HAVE ALL THE VISIBILITY TO THAT. WE DO NOT, RIGHT? SO IF YOU CAN KIND OF KEEP DOWNTOWN PARKING IN YOUR RADAR. AND THEN THE LAST ONE IS, I'VE HEARD RUMORS CITY MAYBE IS PURCHASING SOME VACANT LOTS DOWNTOWN, RIGHT? TO DO PARKING. YOU KNOW, JUST KEEP US IN THE COMMUNICATION FOR ALL OF THAT. SO THOSE WASN'T REALLY THINGS THAT WERE BRAINSTORMING THAT WE'RE WILLING TO PARTAKE AND CONTRIBUTE. UM, NOT JUST THE ONE WAY ANGLE PARKING, BUT THAT WAS OUR MEETING. SORRY, I'M NOT SUPPOSED TO SPEAK IN THIS MEETING. I KNOW THIS IS YOUR WORKSHOP, BUT WE ARE, WE HOLD ON. YOU'RE GOOD. AS LONG AS I YELL AT US AND THEN WE'LL HAVE TO TELL YOU. YOU CAN'T TALK ANYMORE. I'M JOKING. , WHAT YOU GUYS SAY. , ESPECIALLY, YOU KNOW, THE, HAVING THE, THE REAL DATA ON THAT STUDY, YOU KNOW, TO SEE, BECAUSE AGAIN, IF WE'RE, IF WE'RE MAKING 50 SPOTS, I, YOU KNOW, WOULD GO FROM ONE 30 TO 200. I DON'T KNOW IF WHAT THE CUTOFF IS, BUT I MEAN HAVING 400, MAYBE EVEN LOT MORE, YOU GET SOME OF THESE LOTS. WHAT, WHAT BOTHERS ME? I GREW UP AT BERN ROAD 1, 8, 3 COME THROUGH HU FOR A LONG TIME, BEEN HERE FOR ALMOST 20 YEARS. THOSE WAS VACANT LOTS DOWN ON WEST AND MAINE AND NOTHING'S CHANGED. YOU KNOW, SOME OF 'EM AREN'T INHABITED. SOME OF 'EM ARE, ARE MAYBE EVEN DILAPIDATED, MAYBE EVEN CODE VIOLATIONS. AND, AND, AND SOME, I I JUST DON'T SEE IF WE INCENTIVIZE THEM OR PENALIZE 'EM. I DON'T, I'M NOT TRYING TO BE PUNITIVE HERE, BUT SOMETHING TO SPUR DEVELOPMENT OF THAT PROPERTY PARKING WOULD BE A GREAT FIRST STEP. BUT JUST GETTING ANYTHING OFF THE GROUND OF STOREFRONTS KNOW. UH, SO ANYTHING THE CITY CAN DO, DC CAN DO, I'M, I'M ALL FOR THAT. UM, BUT, AND AS FAR AS THE PHASING, I, THERE'S ONE SCHOOL OF THOUGHT OF, OF TAKING THE LEAST EFFECTIVE TO THEN THE MOST EFFECTIVE. BUT THEN PART OF ME SAYS, LET'S DO E STREET FIRST BECAUSE IT'S KINDA LIKE PULLING THE BANDAID OFF. UM, I MEAN I, WHATEVER PERIOD THAT IS, IF IT'S TWO MONTHS, THREE MONTHS, SIX MONTHS OF, OF PHASING THAT ONE STREET, I CAN UNDERSTAND. BUT I KINDA LEAN TOWARD GOING AFTER THE BIG ONE FIRST AND THEN THE OTHER ONES KIND OF FOLLOW IN EASIER. BUT THAT'S JUST, THAT'S ONLY ONE SCHOOL OF THOUGHT THOUGH. I'M NOT PUSHING THAT. BUT I LIKE TO CONSIDER THAT. AND IF THE DOWNTOWN AND THE, AND THE MOST IMPORTANT, THE PATRONS ARE OKAY WITH NO BUSINESS OWNERS AND THE PATRONS ARE OKAY WITH IT, I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING WE SHOULD AT LEAST LOOK AT. ANYBODY ELSE? EVERYTHING SOUNDS REASONABLE TO ME. I WAS KIND OF, UM, THINKING ABOUT IT FROM THE STANDPOINT OF, OF FACING AS WELL. WOULD YOU KNOW ONCE THIS THING DOES GET UNDERWAY WITH THE WORK BE BE GOING ON DURING BUSINESS HOURS OR WOULD THE, THE WORK BE DONE AFTER BUSINESS HOURS? LIKE PARKING AND SIDEWALKS AND STUFF? MM-HMM . MY GUESS IS IT HAD TO BE DURING BUSINESS HOURS ONLY BECAUSE SOME OF THOSE DO HAVE PEOPLE, SOME OF THE BLOCKS DO HAVE PEOPLE THAT LIVE THERE. IF YOU'RE WORKING NINE, 10 O'CLOCK AT NIGHT, IT IT'D BE DISRUPTIVE. I MEAN WHEN I LOOKED AT MAINE AND WEST, I THINK THOSE ARE THE EASIEST ONES TO ADD PARKING BECAUSE IT'S THAT GREAT. WE DON'T HAVE DITCHES AND DRAINAGE ISSUES THERE. ONCE YOU START GETTING INTO AND FARLEY IN FRONT OF THE UH, FOOD LOT IS PRETTY EASY WITH THE SIDEWALK CAN BUMP UP TO THE EXISTING UH, RIGHT OF WAY LINE AND YOU GET INTO PARKING. BUT ONCE YOU GET TO LIKE LIVE OAK, UM, NOW YOU'RE TALKING FROM WHAT I CAN TELL TO ADD THE ANGLE OF PARKING, I THINK THERE IT'S HORIZONTAL. UM, BUT IF YOU WERE TO DO ANY KIND OF MAJOR WORK ON LIVE OAK NOW, NOW YOU'RE INTO THE DRAINAGE AND THE STUFF THAT WE HAVE BUDGETED, UH, COMING UP THAT'S MORE EXTENSIVE. UM, AND I KIND OF PERSONALLY, I THINK ONE OF THE REASONS, IF I WAS A PROPERTY OWNER DOWN TO RUN THE BUSINESS, IF THE CITY WASN'T GONNA PUT TIME AND EFFORT INTO THE PROPERTY AND INTO THE STREETS AND THE INFRASTRUCTURE, WHY WOULD I DO THAT? AND WHY WOULD I GO BUILD A MILLION DOLLAR BUILDING AND THEN WHO, HOW ARE THEY GONNA PARK THERE? AND SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT COMES FIRST. PARKING A BUILDING. I'VE BEEN ADVOCATING FOR PARKING, BUILD THE PARKS, THEN THE BUSINESSES WILL COME. UM, 'CAUSE I JUST DON'T KNOW. ALL I HEAR FROM PROPERTY OWNERS IS THIS PARTICULAR BUSINESS WILL NOT LOCATE HERE 'CAUSE THERE'S NOT ENOUGH PARKING. AND THEY, UH, THERE'S LIKE, I THINK 600 DEGREES ONE TIME THEY WENT A HUNDRED PARKING SPOTS TO EVEN COME DOWN HERE. WELL, 600 DEGREES. THE JUDGE CAN TELL YOU ON THE GEORGETOWN SQUARE [00:20:01] THAT'S HAPPENING. AND THAT IS A PLACE TO BE. IF YOU GO DOWN TO ROUND ROCK, THAT'S A HAPPENING PLACE. YOU CAN'T GET IN THERE TO GET A, GET A BEER OR PIZZA. BUT YOU WANT THEM TO COME TO HUDDLE AND THERE'S NO PARKING ON A FRIDAY NIGHT BECAUSE WE ONE 11 EAST IS TAKING ALL THE PARKING OUT. WELL THEN TO ME, THOSE GUYS KNOW THEIR BUSINESS MODEL. A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS. WHERE DOES CURB AND GUTTER END? DOES IT GO UP TO PECAN EXISTING UNDERGROUND? UH, WELL, SO THIS, THIS PLAN WHAT'S BASICALLY CURB AND GUTTER ON ALL OF THESE STREETS WHERE WE'RE DOING THE PROJECT. OKAY, THAT'S WHAT I WAS GONNA ASK. SO YOU'D BE DOING CURB AND GUTTER A GOOD SECTION OF IT. PROBABLY AT LEAST HALF OF IT. IT ALREADY HAS CURB AND GUTTER. SO IT WOULD JUST BE ADDING IT KIND OF, KIND OF NORTH OF A CON MAINLY. UM, OKAY, SO THAT WAS MY FIRST QUESTION. THE SECOND QUESTION WAS, SO ALL THE ANGLED PARKING ALONG THE BLUE, THAT'S ALL RESIDENTIAL TODAY, RIGHT? TO ME IT SEEMS IT, IT'S, I'VE NEVER SEEN IT BEFORE WHERE YOU PUT ANGLED PARKING IN FRONT OF A RESIDENCE. NOW SOME OF THESE, THEY FACE THE OTHER ROAD, RIGHT? SO THEY DON'T FACE THE ROAD THAT WE WOULD BE PUTTING ANGLED PARKING ON. BUT TO ME THAT JUST SEEMS REALLY STRANGE THAT WE WOULD BE PUTTING IN ANGLED PARKING IN FRONT OF A RESIDENCE, LIKE A HOUSE. LIKE I'M JUST KIND OF TRYING TO IMAGINE MY HOUSE. IF THE CITY CAME IN AND PUT ANGLED PARKING FRONT OF MY HOUSE, THAT'D BE PRETTY DIFFERENT. I DON'T KNOW THAT I'VE EVER SEEN A CITY DO THAT. SO MY, I GUESS MY, MY THOUGHT IS I THINK EVENTUALLY MOST IF NOT ALL OF THESE PROPERTIES WILL PROBABLY GO COMMERCIAL UP TO LIVE OAK. I MEAN, MY GUESS IS THAT'S JUST KIND OF THE TREND THAT'S BEEN GOING. AND SO I KIND OF LIKE THE IDEAS OF YOU START SOMEWHERE, YOU KIND OF START SOUTH, YOU START AT 79, YOU WORK YOUR WAY NORTH AND THEN AS THOSE HOUSES START TO FLIP, THEN YOU MAYBE YOU DO, YOU KIND OF SAVE THAT NORTHERN FOR LAST. UM, BUT YEAH, I, AND I KIND OF LIKE THE IDEA OF STARTING WITH EAST. I MEAN IT'S, IT'D BE DISRUPTIVE, BUT THAT'S THE MOST BANG FOR YOUR BUCK. THAT'S WHERE MOST OF THE BUSINESSES ARE ANYWAY. SO YEAH, I LIKE WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IN TERMS OF AS THEY FLIP, BECAUSE I THINK ONCE YOU ADD TO PARKING, THOSE HOMES ALL OF A SUDDEN BECOME A LOT MORE VALUABLE. NOT FROM A RESIDENTIAL STANDPOINT MM-HMM BUT THEN FROM AN ATTORNEY WANTS TO OPEN UP AN OFFICE DOWN THERE AND YOU SEE IT ALL OVER GEORGETOWN GROUND ROCK. AND ONCE YOU START DOING THAT, EVERYBODY'S GONNA BE GETTING OUT OF THE RESIDENTIAL AND YEAH, I WOULDN'T NECESSARILY, I'M NOT AGAINST PARKING IN FRONT OF A HOUSE, BUT I DO THINK IT'S KIND, IT'S KINDA ODD. IT'S PROBABLY NOT NEEDED. THEY HAVE THEIR OWN DRIVEWAY. SO THAT WOULDN'T BE WHERE I WOULD WANNA SPEND CITY MONEY. WE HAVE ONE ON FARLEY THAT'S ALREADY THE CASE. JUST JUST FOR THE ONE GUY THAT LIVES THERE. JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, THE BLUE COLOR MEANS THAT THAT'S OLD TOWN'S TRANSITION, WHICH MEANS IT MIGHT BE A RESIDENCE RIGHT NOW. OH OKAY. BUT THE WAY IT'S ZONED IS THEY COULD EASILY CONVERT IT TO COMMERCIAL CO. AND SOME OF 'EM MIGHT THINK ACTUALLY ARE COMMERCIAL. I MEAN I THINK A COUPLE OF THEM THE GREATEST IS THE OT FIVE H OR WHATEVER THE HISTORIC IS. THE OTHER THING I'D ADD TO THIS IS AS WE START DOING THIS, I THINK THE CITY OUGHT TO LOOK TOO AT ABANDONING SOME OF THEIR ALLEYWAYS BECAUSE WE HAVE SOME, WHEN YOU COME UP BEHIND, UH, THE, WHAT'S THE, UH, AUTOMOTIVE STORE ON 79, THE O'REILLY'S IS THAT O'REILLY'S RIGHT THERE, RIGHT? O'REILLY'S? YOU GOT THAT FOOD COURT RIGHT BEHIND. THAT'S A CITY ALLEYWAY. WELL, I MEAN I DON'T SEE US THAT WE CAN'T, WE DON'T HAVE THE MONEY TO PAVE THE ROADS. WE NEED PAVE THAT ALREADY ARE PAVED, LET ALONE MAKE AN ALLEYWAY INTO SOMETHING THAT'S USABLE. AND TO ME IS, AS WE DO ALL THIS, WE ABANDON SOME OF THOSE, THE PROPERTY OWNERS CAN RECLAIM IT AND MAYBE BUY ABANDON THAT SOME OF THOSE PROPERTY OWNERS AND GIVE UP TO FIVE FEET ON SAY WEST OR MAIN, BUT THEY'RE GONNA GAIN YOU HALF OF AN ALLEYWAY, WHATEVER THAT IS. THEY'RE GONNA GET ANOTHER PART. SO THEY ACTUALLY GAIN PROPERTY BUT LESS MAINTENANCE FOR RICK. AND YOU GUYS HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT. YEAH, RICK AND I ACTUALLY HAD A CONVERSATION, WAS IT LAST WEEK, RICK, ABOUT, ABOUT PUTTING A PLAN TOGETHER TO FIGURE OUT WHICH ALLEYS IN DOWNTOWN WE COULD START VACATING. BECAUSE WE'RE, WE DON'T, WE DON'T DO ANYTHING. WE HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING WITH THEM AND I DON'T THINK THERE'S A PLAN TO DO ANYTHING WITH THEM. AND SO A LOT OF 'EM ARE JUST SITTING THERE. AND SO, BUT WE DO NEED TO DO OUR DUE DILIGENCE TO GO LOOK AT WHICH ONES HAVE UTILITIES AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF AND HOW THAT WOULD PLAY OUT BEFORE WE JUST COME IN AND SAY WE'RE GONNA START VACATING ALL THESE THINGS. YOU, WE VACATE LEFT TO PUE UH, BEHIND. THAT'S ONE THING I LIKE ABOUT US IS WE HANDLE ALL THE PLATTING . MY HOUSE HAS A 10 FOOT PUE ALL THE WAY AROUND IT AND I CAN'T DO IT WITH, BUT AT LEAST I'D BE ABLE TO ENJOY IT. UM, AND I MEAN, EVERYBODY'S BRINGING UP GOOD POINTS. I THINK WE, WE NEED TO GET ALL, GET MORE ANSWERS TO SOME OF THESE QUESTIONS AND KNOW WHICH BLOCK, HOW MUCH IS EACH BLOCK GONNA COST. THAT'S, THAT'S ONE FACTOR. [00:25:01] UM, WHAT DOES IT MAKE SENSE TO DO? YOU KNOW, SO THAT YOU, YOU DO SOMETHING THAT'S GONNA BE, YOU KNOW, USABLE AS QUICKLY AS YOU CAN PIECE BY PIECE. YOU DON'T WANNA, YOU DON'T WANNA DO HALF A BLOCK HERE, ANOTHER BLOCK THERE AND, AND NOBODY CAN DRIVE ANYWHERE 'CAUSE IT'S ALL CONFUSING. SO WE HAVE TO MAP THAT OUT AND TRY AND FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO IT IN THE LEAST DISRUPTIVE WAY WE CAN. THERE'S NO WAY TO AVOID DISRUPTION, BUT WE GOTTA BE READY TO GO AND GET A WHOLE STRETCH DONE ALL AT ONCE AND MOVE QUICK ON DO IT. AND ANYTHING NORTH OF UM, THE NORTHBOUND SOUTHBOUND LANES NORTH OF LIVE OAK WOULD STILL REMAIN TWO EIGHT. OKAY. WELL, I MEAN FOR NOW THE, THE DIRECTION THAT I GOT FROM COUNCIL WAS 79. THE LIVE OAK IS 1562 CO-OP, BASICALLY THAT'S WHERE I STOPPED. AND WE'RE STILL USING THE PLAN WHERE THERE'S LIKE AREA 1, 2, 3, AND FOUR WHERE AREA ONE IS 79 AND 1660 NORTH, BUT TO THE WEST. AND THEN AREA TWO WOULD BE ABOVE LIVE OAK. AND THEN AREA THREE WOULD BE MORE TOWARD UH, FRITZ PARK AND THEN DOWN SOUTH AGAIN TO SEVEN, NINE. THAT'S AREA FOUR. THOSE DESIGNATIONS STILL YEAH. EXIST, BUT RIGHT NOW WE'RE FOCUSING ON AREA. RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT. JUST ONE. YEAH, BUT THE POINT IS THAT EVENTUALLY THAT WILL BE THE DOWNTOWN THAT MAY BE 20 YEARS AWAY, BUT THAT COULD BE CONSIDERED THE DOWNTOWN AREA AND ALL OF THIS MAY BE THAT. BUT WE DO WELL, WE'LL KNOWN IN A FEW YEARS TO BE SCREWED UP. BUT AT LEAST WE CAN SAY WE'LL KNOW IN SIX MONTHS AT LEAST WE'LL KNOW. WE, WE CAN SAY WE, WE DID SOMETHING. 'CAUSE THIS WOULD BE, I'VE LIVED HERE EIGHT YEARS, THIS WOULD BE THE MOST SIGNIFICANT THING TO HAPPEN IN DOWNTOWN SINCE THE DAY WE BOUGHT THE HOUSE ACROSS FROM MARIO'S AND MADE IT INTO A PARKING LOT. THAT WAS PROBABLY ALMOST 10 YEARS AGO AT THIS POINT. SO FOR 10 YEARS THERE HADN'T BEEN A A DOLLAR REALLY SPENT DOWN THERE, BUT ONCE WE DO GET GET MOVING ON THIS THING, THE ACTUAL MEASUREMENTS WILL HAPPEN. CORRECT. YEAH. I MEAN I, I WOULDN'T, I WOULDN'T RECOMMEND THAT YOU GUYS GO FORWARD INTO DESIGN WITHOUT HAVING BOOTS ON THE GROUND TO DO SURVEY UTILITY LOCATES, ALL THAT STUFF. I THINK WE'LL HAVE, AS I SAY, WHAT I, WHAT I'M GONNA BRING UP TO THE EDC IS THAT THEY, THEY EARMARK SOME MONEY. THEY HAVE SOME MONEY NOT BEING SPENT. THEY, THEY EARMARK THE MONEY TO GET RIGHT AWAY FOR A COUPLE OF QUICK LOCKS AND THEN WE CAN GO OUT AND THEN PAY FOR SURVEYORS AND GET IT DOWN AND KNOW EXACTLY, I DON'T WANNA TAKE EIGHT FEET FROM SOMEBODY WHEN WE NEED FIVE, BUT EXACTLY HOW MUCH, HOW MUCH WE NEED TO PUT SIDEWALKS IN. BUT THEY GO PARKING AND THEN NEGOTIATE THAT. I MEAN THAT COULD TAKE, I COULD TAKE THE REST OF NEXT YEAR BUT THEN THE COUNCIL COULD THEN LOOK AT THE END OF THE YEAR AND HOW MUCH MONEY THEY HAVE. BUT REALLY I THINK COULD REALLY OUGHT TO BE MAYBE MORE THE EDC SPENDING THEIR MONEY SINCE IT'S ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, PUSH THAT AS UH, AS A DOWNTOWN PROJECT WHILE WE WAIT FOR COTTONWOOD TO COME AROUND. AND THEN WE WAIT FOR UM, UH, THE MEGA SITE YOU BROUGHT UP ABOUT THE ACROSS FROM MARIO'S. UH, I REMEMBER WHEN THAT WAS GOING ON AND THIS IS JUST PERSONAL CONVERSATIONS YEARS AGO AND MAYBE THE DOWNTOWN BUSINESS ASSOCIATION IS EITHER ADDRESSING THIS OR GOING TO, BUT THERE'S A LOT OF DOWNTIME AND PROBLEM, YOU KNOW, PATRONS AND AND DOLLAR LOSS. OH MARIO. 'CAUSE THAT, THAT ONE TOOK WAS A DIFFERENT THING 'CAUSE IT TOOK A LOT LONGER TO DO ACCOMPLISH. SO I THINK THAT WAS LIKE SEVEN OR EIGHT MONTHS AND MEMORY HERE. BUT HE HAD LOST A LOT OF DOLLARS, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE OF THAT CONSTRUCTION OVER THERE. NOT JUST LOSS OF PARKING SPACES BUT ALSO IT JUST DIDN'T COME DOWN THERE. PEOPLE DIDN'T COME DOWN. SO I DON'T KNOW IF DOWNTOWN BUSINESSES INDIVIDUALLY OR AS ASSOCIATION TAKE A LOOK IN THAT. SO WHEN IT COMES TO SCHEDULING, UH, WE, WE NEED TO PROVIDE A HARD AND FAST REGARDLESS OF WHAT, WHATEVER PATH WE GO, WE NEED TO HAVE HARD DATES WITH HIGH CONFIDENCE THAT THIS IS GONNA START ON WEEK 13 OF THE YEAR AND IT'S GONNA BE COMPLETED NOW THAT WEEK 50, YOU KNOW, AS A CONTRACTOR FROM INNOVATION, THEN WE'RE OUT THERE WORKING ON IT. NO I WANT VET IT. BUT ANYWAY, JUST BRING THAT POINT UP THAT, YOU KNOW, ONE, AND THIS IS PERSONAL CONVERSATION THAT, YOU KNOW, HE DOESN'T MIND ME SHARING BUT YOU KNOW, HE HAD HAD FINANCIAL LOSSES FOR THAT BECAUSE WHERE IT WAS, HOW IT AFFECTED HIM JUST NOT PARKING BUT ALSO PATRONS AND IT TOOK SO MUCH LONGER SO THAT THEY KEPT PUSHING OUT, PUSHING OUT, PUSHING OUT, PUSHING. YEAH, I AGREE WITH YOU. I WOULD ALSO ARGUE THAT THE BENEFIT AFTER THE FACT WAS PROBABLY MORE THAN WHAT HE WAS GETTING BEFORE. I MEAN THAT NOW HE HAS PARKING ACROSS THE STREET. MORE PATRONS CAN COME VISIT HIS AS LONG AS YOU MAKE DOWN [00:30:01] PERIOD EXCEPT FOR THAT EIGHT MONTHS. MY PERSONAL OPINION IS NONE OF THOSE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO MARKET WELL . OKAY. UM, WELL THE ONLY OTHER THING, AND THIS WOULD BE ANOTHER ITEM I I'D LIKE TO TEST THE HP EIGHT IS YOU START INVESTING IN DOWNTOWN. WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THE BUSINESS MIX IS MAYBE THE APPROPRIATE BUSINESS MIX. UM, AND SO AT SOME POINT WE'LL HAVE TO TALK ABOUT WHAT KIND OF GUIDELINES WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT UM, THERE'S AN SEP PROCESS FOR BUSINESSES THAT ARE GONNA BE, UM, WHAT WOULD YOU CALL IT? YEAH, COMPLIMENTARY. NOT, NOT THAT BECAUSE WHEN YOU DRIVE DOWN DOWNTOWN NOW IF YOU GO DOWN AT EIGHT O'CLOCK AT NIGHT, THERE'S PLENTY OF PARKING 'CAUSE EVERYTHING'S KIND OF CLOSING DOWN AND WINDING DOWN. MY HOPE IS THAT BY DOING ALL THIS, YOU COME DOWN AT 10 O'CLOCK AT NIGHT. I'D RATHER, I'D RATHER SEE YARBOROUGH COME IN AND TELL US HE NEEDS MORE POLICE. 'CAUSE THERE'S SO MANY PEOPLE DOWNTOWN THAT AT TWO O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING HE IS GONNA CHASE HIM OUT BECAUSE THE SALES TAX THAT WOULD BE GENERATING WOULD BE WONDERFUL COMPARED TO RIGHT NOW WHEN A TRADE O'CLOCK, JUST LIKE 10 CARS DOWN THERE, IS IT, IS IT ANY EASIER JUST CHANGING ROAD DIRECTIONS ALL AT ONCE? LIKE IN TERMS OF MY MIND, YOU DO IT ALL AT ONCE AND YOU JUST, YOU FIGURE IT OUT? OR DO YOU SEE A BENEFIT? WE JUST FROM AN ENGINEERING STANDPOINT AND SEEING STUFF SINCE SEEMS LIKE A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE ALSO GOING, HEY, MAYBE WE COULD PHASE THIS. DO YOU SEE A BENEFIT ONE WAY OR THE OTHER? OR IS IT THIS RARELY HAPPENS, WE JUST DON'T HAVE A, A PROCESS, A GOOD PROCESS FOR THIS. SO I, I DON'T THINK THAT YOU PULL, YOU RIP THE BANDAID AND DO ALL THE STREETS AT ONCE. I WOULD THINK THAT IT WOULD BE BEST THAT TO DO ALL OF EACH STREET AT ONE TIME. SO LIKE IF YOU'RE GONNA DO E STREET, DON'T JUST DO PARKING STREET, DO IT FROM 79 ALL THE WAY TO LIVE OAK, GET IT DONE AT ONE TIME, ALL YOUR SIGNS, ALL THAT STUFF CHANGED JUST YEAH, IT'S GONNA BE PAINFUL FOR A LITTLE BIT WHILE PEOPLE FIGURE IT OUT. BUT ONCE THEY FIGURE IT OUT, THEN YOU MOVE ON TO THE NEXT STREET AND YOU JUST RIP THE BANDAID AND SAY OKAY, NOW WE'RE DOING MAIN STREET. HOW LONG WOULD YOU HAVE BETWEEN EAST AND MAIN THE WEST? WOULD YOU DO A MONTH IN BETWEEN TWO MONTHS? SO WHAT I WOULD RECOMMEND IS THAT WE ACTUALLY PUT THE ELECTRONIC MESSAGE BOARDS OUT IN PERIODIC LOCATIONS ALONG WHATEVER STREET WE'RE GONNA DO. LETTING PEOPLE KNOW IN ADVANCE THERE'S A TRAFFIC PATTERN CHANGE COMING. AND YOU DO THAT FOR PROBABLY TWO OR THREE WEEKS AND THEN AFTER TWO OR THREE WEEKS YOU START ERECTING, YOU KNOW, DO NOT ENTER SIGNS AT 79 AND EAST AND THEN YOU START PUTTING UP YOUR, YOU KNOW, LEFT TURN ONLY ON FARLEY AND LEFT TURN ONLY ON AND YOU START PUTTING ALL YOUR SIGNAGE UP AND THEN YOU STILL, THEN YOU TALK TO POLICE AND LIKE, HEY, WE'RE GONNA HAVE SOME ISSUES. WE NEED SOME EXTRA ENFORCEMENT AND SOME EXTRA AWARENESS. YOU CAN KEEP THE ELECTRONIC MESSAGE BOARDS UP SAYING TRAFFIC PATTERN CHANGE. PLEASE BE AWARE. PLEASE NOTE YOU COULD EVEN ADD THE RUMBLE STRIPS AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF IF YOU REALLY WANTED TO BE SUPER CAUTIOUS. AND THEN AFTER TWO OR THREE WEEKS OF THAT, THEN YOU START REALLY ENFORCING IT HEAVY WITH PD SO THE PEOPLE ARE STARTING REALLY PAYING ATTENTION. 'CAUSE NOW THERE'S COP CARS AND EVERYTHING ELSE OUT THERE. AND THEN ONCE YOU KIND OF FEEL LIKE YOU'RE SAFE, THEN YOU PULL ALL THAT OFF AND THEN YOU MOVE TO THE NEXT STREET AND BASICALLY DO THE SAME PROCESS. THAT'S HOW I WOULD DO IT. OR THE TRAINED PERSON. I'VE NEVER CONVERTED AN ENTIRE DOWNTOWN. NO, BUT YOU'VE DONE, I MEAN DO WE HAVE TO HAVE ANY KIND OF COORDINATION OR I MIGHT HATE TO SAY BUY-IN FROM TECH STOP FROM THE 79 PERSPECTIVE COMING IN OFF OF 79. UH, SO WE WOULDN'T BE ASKING THEM FOR ANY KIND OF PERMITS. WE WOULD JUST NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE AWARE THAT WE'RE CHANGING OUR TRAFFIC PATTERNS AND THAT WE'RE GONNA PUT UP NEW SIGNS ALONG 79 BASICALLY SAYING DO NOT ENTER ON, UH, EAST OR SORRY, NO, DO NOT ENTER ON MAIN. AND THEN EVERYWHERE ELSE THAT WE'RE GONNA SAY DO NOT ENTER WOULD BE LIKE WHITE OAK ON WEST AND EAST. AND SO THOSE, THOSE, THOSE ARE OURS. I BET MONEY TEXTILES GONNA LIGHT NOT HAVING CARS EXITING LEFT SOUTH AND LEFT OUT ONTO UH, 79. I MEAN IT, THIS IS ONE OF THE, WELL IF YOU GO PULL THE COLLISION DATA ON 79, THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST DANGEROUS AREAS ON 79 FOR US. NOT THE MOST DEADLIEST, BUT IT IS GOT THE, ONE OF THE HIGHEST NUMBERS OF COLLISIONS. TRAFFIC'S TWO BACKED UP, THERE'S A GET MOMENTUM. [00:35:01] PROBABLY THE THE WEIRDEST STREET TO DO THAT ON. IF YOU, IF YOU CONVERT IT TO ONE WAY BEFORE YOU DO THE CONSTRUCTION WOULD DEFINITELY BE EAST BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT ALL THAT PARALLEL PARKING ON THE WEST SIDE OF EAST THAT'S FACING THE WRONG WAY. SO IF YOU DID THAT, WOULD YOU JUST DO TEMPORARY, LIKE REPAINTING THOSE LINES SO THE PEOPLE COULD PARK THE RIGHT WAY? ARE YOU GONNA, BECAUSE SOME CITIES DO BACKEND PARKING ON PARALLEL, WHICH IS NOBODY KNOWS HOW TO DO THAT . UM, I LIKE IT. I PREFER IT BECAUSE IT'S SO MUCH EASIER TO GET OUT THAN GET IN. BUT UM, THAT WOULD BE, THAT'D BE A CHALLENGE ON EAST JUST WITH THE OH YEAH. GLASS RIGHT SIDE. YEAH, WHAT I WAS THINKING ON THAT WAS, I WAS THINKING THAT AS WE'RE DOING THIS, WE START WITH PAINT, IT'S THEY'RE GONNA LOSE A COUPLE PARKING SPOTS. WE GO AHEAD AND PAINT THE MEDIANS AND AND RETRIP IT ALL AS A DEAL TO WHERE BEFORE YOU TEAR IT UP, LIKE PHYSICALLY. YEAH, I THINK YOU'D HAVE TO DO THAT ON EAST TO MAKE THE THE PARKING, PARKING SPACES FACE THE RIGHT WAY. YEAH. AND I THINK TEMPORARY, THERE'S GONNA BE A LOSS OF PARKING SPOTS AND THEN I THINK AT THE END OF THE END OF THE SUMMER BY THEN WE HAVE A PLAN TO BE ABLE TO COME IN AND REDO PART OF THE SIDEWALKS AND WE DO PART OF THE CURVING AND COME IN AND AND KICK ALL THAT OFF. BUT BY THEN IT'S ALREADY PAINTED. EVERYBODY'S TRAINED AND WE'LL GAIN THE PARKING SPOTS BACK. AND, AND JUST, JUST TO GRACIE'S POINT, I'M NOT GONNA DO WHAT THEY DID IN TAYLOR. ALL OF THESE SPACES ARE PROPERLY SIZED SPACES. AGAIN, IT'S BASED ON GIS DATA. SO WHAT TAYLOR DID WAS THEY PUT SPACES IN AGAINST EXISTING CURVE AND JUST PAINTED IT AND SAID FOR GOOD. UM, I, I DON'T RECOMMEND THAT I'VE, I'VE DONE ALL THIS PER THE REQUIREMENTS. SO THEY'RE ALL 18 BY, BY NINE AND A HALF SPACES. RIGHT. AND UM, I'VE ALLOCATED PLENTY OF TURN RADIUS FOR ALL OF THE INS AND OUTS THAT WE HAVE. AND SO I, I THINK, AND I'VE ALLOWED FOR FIVE FEET OF SPACE OFF OF THE GIS RIGHT OF WAY LINES. SO I'VE ALLOWED ROOM FOR FIVE FEET SIDEWALK, SIX INCH CURB, AND THEN FULL LENGTH SPACES. SO WHILE YOU MAY NOT GET EXACTLY THIS, YOU'RE GONNA GET PRETTY CLOSE TO THIS ONCE WE DO ON THE GROUND CIRCUIT. NOW OBVIOUSLY I HAVEN'T ACCOUNTED FOR FIRE HYDRANTS, YOU KNOW, POWER LINE, ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF THAT WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT. BUT GENERALLY THIS IS GONNA BE PRETTY CLOSE TO WHAT YOU GET. BUT YEAH, I THINK YOU CAN START WITH DOING SOME SIMPLE TO START WITH AND THEN NOT GO AND TRY TO RECONSTRUCT ALL THE MEDIAS AND DO ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF, BUT JUST STRIPE IT ALL OUT. ONLY REASON WHY I PUT ALL THE MEDIAS AND STUFF IN HERE IS BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THE CODE SAYS WE SHOULD HAVE. AND SO I WANTED THIS TO BE AS CLOSE TO REALITY SO YOU GUYS COULD REALLY HAVE ALL OF THE DATA FOR WHAT AN ACTUAL DESIGN IS GONNA LOOK POTENTIALLY LOOK LIKE. SO I MEAN FROM A , UM, SO LIKE WE HAVE PIA TRAFFIC IMPACT ANALYSIS, DO WE NEED TO HAVE A PARKING IMPACT ANALYSIS OF THE WHOLE PLAN? I MEAN WE HAVE A SCHEDULE OF WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO, BUT AS MAYOR BROUGHT UP, WE'RE GONNA BE LOSING PARKING SPACES IN THE INTERIM PER ADDRESS. SO JUST LOOKING AT THE A HUNDRED BLOCK OF E STREET, DO WE NEED SOME TYPE OF PIA TO GIVE TO THE NEW ACRONYM? THE NEW ACRONYM . I WAS GONNA SAY THAT TEXTILE , THERE'S NO, THERE'S NO PIA UM, I MEAN I THINK BEFORE YOU PULLED THE TRIGGER AND STARTED, YOU KNOW, LET'S SAY WE DID E STREET AND SO WE NEEDED TO GO RETRIP, YOU KNOW, RIGHT THERE THE WEST SIDE OF E STREET RIGHT AWAY, RIGHT? I THINK WE LOOK AT THAT AND WE SAY, HEY, HOW LONG IS IT GONNA TAKE US TO DO TO, YOU KNOW, GRIND UP THE CURRENT PAINTING, PUT DOWN FRESH PAINTING, RIGHT? YOU KNOW, MAYBE THAT'S THREE DAYS. AND SO WE LET ALL THE BUSINESSES KNOW AND WE RIGHT SAY OKAY, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO HAVE ALTERNATIVE PARKING FOR YOUR X NUMBER OF DAYS PATRONS FOR X NUMBER OF DAYS. BUT, AND YES, THAT'S GONNA IMPACT BUSINESSES, RIGHT? IT'S GONNA FRUSTRATE PATRONS, IT'S GONNA FRUSTRATE, I THINK WE'RE, WE'RE TALKING LONGER TERM UNTIL WE CHANGE THE CURBS. THE CURBS ARE GOING THIS WAY. SO YOU'RE GONNA LOSE, MY GUESS IS YOU'RE LOSING A PARKING SPOT ON EACH END, EACH SIDE OF EACH BLOCK. SO YOU MAY BE LOSING FOUR TO SIX PARKING SPOTS BECAUSE YOU'LL CHANGE THE, THE PAINT AROUND AND YOU'LL HAVE SOME ODD ANGLED CORNERS UNTIL WE COME BACK AND THEN CARVE OUT THE CURVE AND THEN REPO CURVES IN DIFFERENT AREAS. BUT I THINK YOU'RE GONNA HAVE THAT IMPACT NO MATTER WHEN AND HOW YOU DO IT. IT'S JUST A MATTER OF WE DON'T, TO THEIR POINT, WE DON'T WANNA BE PAINTING, PAINTING THE NEW AREAS AND THEN THREE YEARS FROM NOW WE GET AROUND TO, OKAY, LET'S LET'S THE CURB REDO THE CURBS AND GET THE PARKING SPOTS BACK. I THINK WE GOTTA MOVE EXPEDITIOUSLY THROUGH THIS. BUT IF WE DO, JOE, THANK YOU SIR. IF WE DO ONE WAY PARKING ON EAST, YOU WOULDN'T NEED AS MUCH DRIVEWAY. COULD YOU PUT IN ANGLE PARKING TEMPORARILY [00:40:01] AND JUST PAINT IT IN? 'CAUSE YOU WOULDN'T NEED TWO LANES OF TRAFFIC. YOU'D ONLY NEED ONE NOW TO GET THROUGH THAT. YEAH, I MEAN, AND AND YOU PROBABLY ACTUALLY COULD WELL DETERMINES THE ANGLE, WELL DENSITY, THE, THE WIDTH. 'CAUSE LIKE SOUTH FARLEY ON EAST IS SKINNIER THAN NARROWER, BUT IS THERE ENOUGH? IF THERE WAS ENOUGH, YOU MAYBE COULD, BUT RIGHT, WELL THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE THE SURVEY COMES. SO BASED ON GIS DATA, YES I HAVE, I HAVE ENOUGH WIDTH ON THESE ONE-WAY ROADS TO FACILITATE A PLUS HAVING PARKING ON EACH SIDE OF THE FIRE LANE BASICALLY. UM, BUT AGAIN, ONCE WE GET DETAILED SURVEY THEN I CAN GIVE YOU A BETTER ANSWER. YEAH AND THAT'LL DETERMINE THE ANGLE WHICH CHANGES THE DENSITY. 'CAUSE THE MORE CLOSER YOU GET TO 90, I MEAN THAT'S MAXIMUM INTENSITY BUT YOU MAY BE AT SAME ANGLE, 60 DIFFERENT ANGLES. SOME YEAH. CAN AT FIVE, SOME ARE, SOME ARE 45, SOME ARE 60. AND THAT WILL DETERMINE YOUR ULTIMATE WIDTH IS 90. RIGHT. AND THEN AS I JUST FIGURED THERE WAS A STANDARD AS YOU GET NARROWER, YOU IT'S IN THE UDC YOU LIKE WHAT'S THE, WHAT'S THE, SO SO THERE'S A STANDARD. SO THERE IS A STANDARD BUT THERE'S A STANDARD FOR 30 DEGREE PARKING. THERE'S A STANDARD FOR 45. OKAY. THERE'S A STANDARD FOR 60 AND THERE'S A STANDARD FOR 90. SO 30 45 AND 60 ARE KIND OF THE THREE. MM-HMM INBETWEENERS. OKAY. INTERESTING. AND THEN YOU HAVE OF COURSE YOUR STANDARD PARALLEL PARKING. ALRIGHT, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? I'M ABOUT A THREE TWO DISCUSSION, POSSIBLE ACTION RELATED TO WORK SESSION TOPICS. YEAH, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO, LET'S SEE IF I CAN WORD THIS, UH, DIRECT STAFF TO EXECUTE BASED ON THE DISCUSSIONS IN THIS WORKSHOP. BRING BACK HARD DEBTED. UM, AND I GUESS THE BEST PLAN YOU CAN COME UP WITH WITH SOME BUDGETARY ISH, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO WORD THAT, BUT FISCAL COST. CAN I SECOND THAT BUT AS JUST 'CAUSE I DON'T THINK THAT'S DETAILED ENOUGH, UH, BECAUSE WE TALKED ABOUT, BUT CAN I SECOND THAT AND LET'S JUST SAY WE START EAST STREET. WELL I, I WANNA, I WANT TO PHASED BUT WE TALK ABOUT PHASING IF WE'RE STARTING WITH EAST, BUT THEN WE HAVE TO PLAN FOR MAIN AND WEST, RIGHT? SO WE CAN YES, I'M FINE WITH STARTING WITH EAST, YES. BUT I, I STILL WANT A PHASED PLAN FOR ALL. I'D LIKE TO DO WHAT WHAT HE SAID EAST FOR THREE WEEKS MESSAGE BOARDS IN ADVANCE AND WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT AND THEN REC DIRECTING THE SIGNS DO NOT ENTER AND THEN THE NEXT MONTH MEAN THE NEXT MONTH'S WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT WEST. I JUST WANTED TO PUT IT OUT THERE. GOOD WITH THAT. SO HE KNOWS. I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO ADD, UM, AND COORDINATE, COMMUNICATE WHATEVER WITH EDC DIRECTOR AS PART OF YOUR PLAN FOR, FOR THE ITEMS THAT THE MAYOR DISCUSSED ABOUT UM, YOU KNOW, IF THE EDC NEEDS TO MAYBE CONSIDER UH, LOOKING AT THEIR PORTION FOR LIKE RIGHT AWAY THAT'S WORTH IT. DOES THAT GIVE YOU THE DIRECTION THAT YOU ONLY QUESTION I HAVE IS YOU SAID BRING BACK HARD DATA , WELL LIKE YOU SAID, LIKE A SURVEY. YEAH, YEAH. SURVEY, WHATEVER, YOU KNOW, TAKE YOUR MEASUREMENTS, CHECK WHERE THE FIRE HYDRANTS ARE, BUT NOT TO DO THAT BEFORE WE CHANGE THE DIRECTION. LIKE TO ME THE SURVEY COMES, WE CHANGE THE DIRECTION. OH YOU'RE SAYING GO AHEAD AND CHANGE THE DIRECTION ON EAST EAST AND THEN WE'RE, WHILE WE'RE DOING THAT, WE'RE OUT GETTING THE SURVEY DATA RIGHTS AWAY FOR EVERYTHING ELSE. CUT OFF, CUT A MONTH OFF PLUS TO DO THAT. YEAH. YEAH. WE SHOULD KNOW BY NOW THAT GETTING RIGHTS AWAY IS VERY UNPREDICTABLE. SURE. IT COULD BE FAST, IT COULD TAKE YEARS. I MEAN IF, IF IT IS, I MEAN SO THAT MEANS EMINENT DOMAIN IF IT'S GONNA TAKE THAT LONG. SO, AND THAT'S NOT A VERY QUICK PROCESS EITHER. SO IF WE THINK WE'RE GONNA START AND THEN FINISH IT THREE MONTHS OR NOT, RIGHT. AND THE RIGHT AWAY COULD, COULD TAKE, COULD DELAY IT. RIGHT? RIGHT. IN MY MIND, I'M TALKING DIRECTIONS NOW. WE WON'T NEED RIDES AWAY FOR E STREET, BUT WHEN WE GET TO WEST AND MAINE, NO, BUT WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT WANTING TO HAVE A PHASE PLAN TO GO THROUGH THE WHOLE THING, WE CAN'T GUARANTEE WHEN THOSE, I WOULDN'T DO THAT FOR THE DIRECTION, BUT I THINK YOU NEED TO HAVE, WE NEED TO START ON THAT IMMEDIATELY AND START ON UH NO I'M FINE. I'M FINE. I DON'T, I DON'T WANNA WAIT FOR THAT FOR EVERYTHING ELSE. YES, WE, WE, MY ONLY HANGUP ABOUT THE EAST STREET IS NOT HAVING THE MEASUREMENTS SO WE DON'T KNOW WHAT ANGLE AND THAT SORT OF THING. SO PART OF ME KIND OF WANTS THAT INFORMATION AT LEAST FOR EAST FIRST BEFORE WE START CHANGING THE PAINTING LINES AND STUFF. UM, SO I DON'T KNOW IF WE CAN, IF WE CAN MAYBE DO E STREET, GET THAT, GET THAT INFORMATION AND THEN GO TO PAINTING AND, AND GO AND SIGN. CAN'T PAINT THE LINES UNTIL YOU HAVE, YOU GOTTA HAVE THE MEASUREMENTS BUT YOU CAN CHANGE THE DIRECTION NOW. YEAH. WITH SIGNS TO ME WE'RE GONNA CHANGE. I YOU'RE JUST OKAY SO NOT ION AND THEN HE'S GONNA GO OUT TRAFFIC ON, ON CITY ROAD AND HE'S GONNA FIGURE OUT ON HIS OWN. YEAH, YEAH. WHAT THE ANGLE'S GOTTA BE. SO I DON'T, I DON'T NECESSARILY [00:45:01] WANT MATT COMING BACK. UM, BUT I THINK THE OTHER ROADS WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO DO THAT. OKAY. E STREET'S A LITTLE DIFFERENT. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT MOTION SAYS NOW, BUT YES. SO MOTIONS TO CHANGE THE DIRECTION ON E STREET FIRST YOU'RE GONNA RUN IT THREE WEEKS. YOU'RE GONNA HAVE MESSAGE BOARDS IN ADVANCE. YOU'RE GONNA ERECT SIGNS AND THEN I GUESS WAIT A WEEK AND THEN THE NEXT MONTH YOU'RE GONNA START WITH MAIN DO THE SAME THING. THEN YOU'RE GONNA WAIT, YOU GOTTA DO UH, WEST AND THEN IN THE MEANTIME ALL THAT'S GOING ON 'CAUSE IT'S GONNA TAKE A COUPLE WEEKS TO GET GOING. WE'RE GONNA WORK ON EDC TO SEE, I DON'T KNOW WHY THEY WOULD SAY NO, BUT WE'RE GONNA WORK ON EDC TO START GEARING UP FOR SOME MONEY TO SPEND SO THAT YOU HAVE SURVEY DOLLARS TO AND GO OUT AND START KNOCKING OUT STARTING FROM LIKE PETER WAS SAYING 79 WORKING OUR WAY NORTH. AND THEN WE COULD COME BACK TO THE E UH, THE DHBA WITH A PLAN OF LIKE, HEY, WE THINK THIS IS GONNA BE LIKE A FOUR YEAR PLAN TO GET ALL THE STREETS, ALL THE PARKING AND ALL THAT DONE. WE CAN'T JUST GO OUT AND BLOW UP EVERY CITY BLOCK NEXT YEAR, BUT EACH TIME WE DO IT WE'D BE ADDING ALL THOSE PARKS ON MAINE, WHICH DON'T EXIST. ALL THE PARKS ON WEST THAT DON'T EXIST. WE'D BE ADDING THE PARKS ON FARLEY BY THE FOOD TRUCKS. ADDITIONAL PARKS ON EAST STREET, ON THE EAST SIDE. UM, SO I WOULD THINK WE'RE GONNA HAVE A DOUBLE ON PARKING WITHIN A YEAR OR TWO LOOKING FOR GRACIE'S APPROVAL THAT SHE'S LOCKED IN ON SOMETHING ELSE. READING TO LINES. OKAY. RIGHT. YOU DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION HEARING NONE. UH, COUNCILOR MORRIS? YES. COUNCILOR GORDON. AYE. A THOMPSON HERE. CUSTOMER KING. AYE. COUNCILOR PORTERFIELD. AYE. MAYOR POTM THORNTON. AYE MAYOR. SENATOR. AYE FOR DIDN'T THAT MOTION DOWN? LAURA DID YOU GO THAT THE FACT RE REWIND AND INPUT QUICK. GIVING YOU OUR MOTION SO YOU CAN REWRITE 'EM AND THAT'S A TOUGH JOB, ESPECIALLY THE WAY WE GO. UM, ALRIGHT, ANYTHING ELSE ANYBODY HAS FOR THIS? IS IT TOO EARLY TO TALK FINANCES OR WHERE IT'S COMING FROM? IS THE CO-OPT AVAILABLE OR NOT TO FINALIZE, BUT IS THAT, I DON'T THINK WE FOR THAT. YEAH. OKAY. NEVERMIND. THANK YOU. YOU ARE GONNA HAVE TO FIGURE OUT. WELL ADJOURN AT 6:47 PM. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.