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WE'LL CALL THE CITY COUNCIL WORK
[1. CALL SESSION TO ORDER]
SESSION FOR THURSDAY, APRIL 16TH, 2026 TO ORDER ROLL CALL COUNCILOR WARNER.[3.1. Discussion and possible action regarding project delivery and construction oversight methods, including the potential use of a Construction Manager at Risk (CMAR), for the proposed Justice Center Project. (David Amsler)]
DISCUSSION.POSSIBLE ACTION REGARDING PROJECT DELIVERY AND CONSTRUCTION OVERSIGHT METHODS, INCLUDING THE POTENTIAL USE OF A CONSTRUCTION MANAGER AT RISK SMAR FOR THE PROPOSED JUSTICE CENTER PROJECT.
AND NAME NAME'S DAVID AMSLER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF STRATEGIC OPERATIONS FOR THE RECORD.
UM, TONIGHT WE WILL ALSO HAVE OUR, UH, DESIGN CONSULTANT HERE TODAY.
JESSICA, I BELIEVE SHE'S DOWNSTAIRS, SO I'M HAVING SOME WRAP HER, BUT I WILL START PRESENTATION UNTIL SHE IS HERE.
SO TODAY WHAT WE ARE DOING IS, UM, EDUCATING ALL COUNCIL, UH, WITH AN EMPHASIS ON NEW COUNCIL MEMBERS, DIFFERENT, UH, PROCUREMENT METHODS THAT YOU CAN DO WHEN YOU BUILD FACILITIES OR BEGIN TO, UH, DO DESIGN.
UH, TODAY WE WILL BE PLACING AN EMPHASIS ON CONSTRUCTION MANAGER AT RISK.
IN SHORT, WHAT THAT DOES IS IT ALLOWS DURING THE DESIGN PROCESS FOR THE CONSTRUCTION, UH, COMPANY TO COME IN AND ACTUALLY BE PRICING OUT, UH, WHAT EVERYTHING COSTS.
SO ALL OF YOUR MATERIALS, UH, IN REAL TIME.
SO THAT IF YOU WERE TO GO OUT TO BOND FOR THE, FOR THIS ITEM, THE JUSTICE CENTER, THAT IT WOULD BE AN ACCURATE REFLECTION RATHER THAN, UM, A ENGINEER'S ESTIMATE, WHICH IS WHAT WE DO FOR A LOT OF DIFFERENT CIP PROJECTS.
AND THAT'S WHERE YOU GET A GREATER VARIANCE.
SO HOW IT WORKS IS THE OWNER US WOULD HIRE A CONSTRUCTION MANAGER DURING DESIGN, UH, THROUGH A ONE OR TWO STEP REQUEST FOR PROPOSAL.
THE CONSTRUCTION MANAGER PROVIDES COSTS, SCHEDULE, AND, UH, CONSTRUCTION ABILITY INPUT.
THEY LATER BECOME THE GENERAL CONTRACTOR, AND THEN THEY ALSO COMMIT TO A GUARANTEED MAXIMUM PRICE.
SO IN THE DESIGN OH THREE DOWNSTAIRS.
SORRY, I WAS TALKING TO YOU AND I DIDN'T KNOW YOU WERE COMING UP HERE.
SO OTHERWISE I WOULD'VE SAID, HEY, COME ONTO THE TABLE.
YOU WANT ME TO CARRY THE HOT SEAT? YES, YOU'RE ON THE SEAT.
SO I HAVE GOTTEN RIGHT TO HOW IT WORKS, UM, AND KIND OF GAVE AN INTRODUCTION OF WHAT WE'RE GOING OVER TODAY, UH, AND STARTED TO TALK ABOUT, UM, HOW A CMAR PROVIDES US A GUARANTEED MAXIMUM PRICE, BUT NOT EXACTLY WHAT THAT IS.
UH, SO DO YOU WANT ME TO GO THROUGH THE SLIDE DECK THEN? AND, UH, YES, MA'AM.
UM, SO THIS, UM, PRESENTATION'S BROKEN INTO TWO PARTS.
THE FIRST ONE IS A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE DIFFERENT PROCUREMENT METHODS, REALLY LOOKING AT CMAR AND UM, CSP, WHICH IS COMPETITIVE SEAL PROPOSAL.
UM, AND THEN THE SECOND PART IS WHY THIS MIGHT BE A BENEFIT TO THIS PROJECT.
AND OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, YOU GUYS ARE THE OWNERS.
WHATEVER YOU WANNA DO, OF COURSE WE WILL DO WHICHEVER WAY YOU WANT TO GO.
BUT, UM, WE DO THINK THAT THIS WOULD BE, UM, A, A GOOD OPPORTUNITY FOR THIS PROJECT TO GO WITH CMAR.
SO A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THIS PROCESS.
UM, HOW THIS WORKS IS THE OWNER HIRES THE CONSTRUCTION MANAGER.
UM, USUALLY DURING DESIGN, THAT'S WHERE THEY BRING THE MOST VALUE, UM, IS WHEN THEY CAN START WORKING WITH THE, UM, ARCHITECT AND DESIGN TEAM EARLY ON.
UM, THE REASON IS THEY'RE VERY COLLABORATIVE AND THEY BRING A LOT OF INPUT.
UM, LATER THEY BECOME THE GENERAL CONTRACTOR, AND AT THAT POINT, THEY WILL BID THE CONTRACT DOCUMENTS.
SO THEY'LL BID THE DOCUMENTS WE PREPARE AND GIVE YOU A GUARANTEED MAXIMUM PRICE.
SO ONCE THAT IS DONE, THERE'S A LOT OF JOB CERTAINTY THERE.
A LOT OF, UH, PRICE CERTAINTY.
UM, IN THIS ARRANGEMENT, YOU STILL HOLD TWO CONTRACTS, WHICH IS PRETTY COMMON, ONE WITH THE ONE, THE ARCHITECT, AND ONE WITH THE CONTRACTOR.
AND WITHIN THOSE CONTRACTS THERE ARE, UM, WE'RE OBLIGATED TO WORK WITH THEM AND THEY WITH US.
SO THERE'S SORT OF A LOOSE, UM, AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE CM AND THE, THE DESIGN TEAM.
UM, SO AGAIN, SOME OF THE, SOME OF THE ADVANTAGES THERE ARE EARLY CONTRACTOR INVOLVEMENT.
UM, USUALLY IMPROVE COST CONTROL, ESPECIALLY DURING CONSTRUCTION.
'CAUSE THEY HAVE THE TIME THROUGH DESIGN TO IDENTIFY ISSUES EARLY ON AND EITHER ADDRESS 'EM OR COME UP WITH A DIFFERENT WAY TO, UM, TO ADDRESS THEM AT WORK.
UM, THERE'S THAT PRICE CERTAINTY.
THEY'RE NOT, THEY'RE NOT TO GO OVER THAT GUARANTEED MAXIMUM PRICE, UM, UNLESS THERE IS A CHANGE FILE DRIVEN BY THE OWNER OR SOMETHING VERY UNFORESEEN.
UM, SO THE DISADVANTAGES IS, UM, SOMETIMES IT CAN BE LESS PRICE COMPETITIVE THAN A, UH, HERE IT'S WRITTEN DESIGN BID BILL, BUT CSP PROJECT, UH, BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT SO, SO IN THIS SITUATION,
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THE CMR IS, UM, ALL OF THE SUBCONTRACTORS THAT THEY HOLD THE CONTRACTS FOR ARE ALL COMPETITIVELY BIDDING IT.UM, BUT IN, UM, BUT THEY ALREADY HAVE THE JOB.
I DON'T KNOW IF THAT MAKES SENSE.
SO CM ALREADY HAS THE JOB, BUT ALL THE SUBCONTRACTS ARE COMPETITIVELY BIDDING IT.
SO ALL OF THOSE SUBCONTRACTS ARE HOLDING, STILL ARE COMPETITIVE.
UM, IT DOES REQUIRE SOME TRUST AND COLLABORATION, BUT TO ME THAT'S A GOOD THING.
I LIKE WORKING IN A COLLABORATIVE WAY WITH MY, WITH MY TEAM.
SO, UM, I THINK THAT CAN BE A REAL POSITIVE.
AND THE BEST USE IS FOR ANYTHING WHERE YOU'VE GOT REALLY COMPLEX PROJECTS, ANYTHING THAT'S PHASED, UM, SOME MORE COMPLEX BUILDINGS LIKE EDUCATION, HEALTHCARE, CIVIC, UM, AND THEN OWNERS WHO WANNA BALANCE BETWEEN THE CONTROL AND RISK REDUCTION THERE.
SO, SO CSP IS, UM, PROBABLY THE MORE TRADITIONAL METHOD.
THIS WAS, UM, USED UP UNTIL CMAR WAS APPROVED IN THE STATE OF TEXAS TO USE, WHICH I THINK HAPPENED 25 OR 30 YEARS AGO.
UM, SO WHERE THIS HAPPENS, THE OWNER HIRES THE ARCHITECT, THE ARCHITECT AND THE DESIGN TEAM GO AHEAD AND DESIGN WHOLE PROCESS.
UM, THEN THE PROJECT IS COMPETITIVELY BID TO A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT GENERAL CONTRACTORS.
SO ALL THE SUB CONSULTANTS ARE STILL BIDDING THE SAME WAY THAT THEY WOULD TO A-C-M-A-R.
THEY'RE JUST BIDDING TO MULTIPLE GENERAL CONTRACTORS INSTEAD OF TO THE ONE.
UM, SO THEN THE OWNER WOULD GO THROUGH A, UM, A REVIEW OF THE DIFFERENT BID THAT COME IN AND, UH, PICK THE ONE THAT IS BEST, UM, SUITED FOR THE PROJECT.
SO THE ADVANTAGE TO THIS OVER SOME OTHER METHODS IS THAT YOU STILL GET TO PICK BASED ON, UM, QUALIFICATIONS.
YOU CAN FORGO THE LOW PRICE AND YOU CAN ALSO LOOK AT OTHER FACTORS LIKE THEIR EXPERIENCE DOING THE WORK, UM, MAYBE GENERAL QUALIFICATIONS, HOW MANY PEOPLE THEY'LL HAVE ON THEIR JOB SITE.
THERE'S MANY THINGS YOU CAN PICK FROM YOU COULD USE TO ESTABLISH THAT UP FRONT.
UM, THE ADVANTAGE ADVANTAGES, IT'S VERY WIDELY ACCEPTED AND UNDERSTOOD.
UM, THE COMPETITIVE PRICING, YOU KNOW, YOU, YOU HAVE MULTIPLE GENERAL CONTRACTORS BIDDING IT.
UM, IT'S VERY CLEAR DEFINITION BETWEEN DESIGN AND CONSTRUCTION.
AND IT WORKS WELL WHEN YOU HAVE A CLEARLY DEFINED SCOPE.
UM, AGAIN, THE DISADVANTAGES ARE, IT MIGHT BE A LONGER DELIVERY TIME, UM, DURING THE CONSTRUCTION BECAUSE THEY'RE COMING INTO IT BRAND NEW.
THEY HAVEN'T BEEN WORKING ON THAT PROJECT, WHAT UNTIL THEY BID IT.
UM, YOU DON'T HAVE ANY INPUT FROM THEM DURING THE DESIGN, UH, WHICH CAN BE VERY, VERY, UM, IT CAN BE VERY HELPFUL TO HAVE THAT INPUT.
UM, AND THEN YOU HAVE A HIGHER RISK OF THEM DISCOVERING THINGS DURING CONSTRUCTION THAT COULD HAVE BEEN KNOWN DURING DESIGN AND WEREN'T, UM, AND HAVING CHANGE ORDERS THERE.
UM, AND THEN SOMETIMES THEY'RE, I MEAN, ADVERSARIAL RELATIONSHIPS ARE CERTAINLY MAKE RELATIONSHIP, BUT UM, IT'S A LITTLE BIT MORE LIKELY IN THIS CASE.
UM, SOME OF THE BEST PROJECTS, AGAIN, UH, PUBLIC SECTOR PROJECTS, UH, SIMPLE WELL-DEFINED PROJECTS.
UM, AND THEN, UM, WE'RE THE LOWEST INITIAL CRISIS PRIORITY.
SO THIS NEXT ONE HAS A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT, UM, WAYS OF DELIVERY, BUT JUST REALLY JUST COMPARING THE TWO TOGETHER JUST BETWEEN CSP AND CMAR CAN SEE THE DIFFERENCE THERE.
UM, AND, UH, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, YOU'RE STILL HOLDING TWO CONTRACTS THE SAME FOR EITHER ONE.
UM, YOU'RE, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE THE, UM, WELL ANYWAY, YOU CAN READ THIS.
I'M NOT GONNA READ THE WHOLE THING, SO PROBABLY BORE YOU TO TEARS, BUT, UM, YOU CAN GO TO THE NEXT ONE.
UM, AND THEN SOME KEY TAKEAWAYS HERE.
CSP IS THE LEAST FLEXIBLE, UM, THAT CAN HAVE MORE COSTLY CHANGES IN THE PA.
AFTERWARDS, YOU'LL HAVE MORE REQUESTS FOR INFORMATION OR RFIS CHANGE ORDERS AND, UM, ANY COORDINATION ISSUES CAN SHOW UP LATE.
UM, SO, UM, AND THEN OF COURSE WITH THE CMAR, THE BUILDERS AT THE TABLE EARLY.
UM, FEWER SURPRISES DURING CONSTRUCTION, BETTER PLANNING AROUND OCCUPIED FACE SITES.
UH, THE ISSUES ARE IDENTIFIED EARLY RATHER THAN, UM, ONSITE DURING CONSTRUCTION.
AND, UM, THE COST OVERRUNS ARE SHIFTED TO THE CMR, UH, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF WHEN IT IS OWNER DRIVEN.
UM, JUST A LITTLE BIT ABOUT A GUARANTEED MAXIMUM PRICE AND WHAT IT IS.
UM, SO THIS IS WHAT THEY WILL DELIVER TO YOU AS SORT OF THEIR BID.
UM, AND WHAT THEY'RE SAYING IS THAT IT IS, THIS IS THE MAXIMUM PRICE THAT WE'LL BUILD THIS PROJECT FOR YOU APPROVE THAT THEY START CONSTRUCTION.
UM, WHAT YOU CAN EXPECT FROM THIS, UM, THE SAME AS CSP IS IT'S FULLY TRANSPARENT.
YOU CAN ASK FOR ANY KIND OF OPEN BOOKS THAT YOU'D LIKE, UM, THAT YOU HAVE VISIBILITY INTO THE SUBCONTRACTOR BIDS AND ALL OF THAT GENERAL CONDITIONS, ALL OF THOSE ARE COMPLETELY OPEN TO THE CLIENT.
UM, AND THEN, UM, YOU KNOW, THIS IS DIFFERENT FROM STATE TO STATE AND ARRANGEMENT TO ARRANGEMENT, BUT GENERALLY THE UNUSED FUNDS.
SO IF THEY'VE GOT WHAT'S BUYOUT SAVINGS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, LIKE SAY THEY, MAYBE THEIR ELECTRICAL ENGINEER BIDS THE JOB AT $5 MILLION AND THEN AS THEY GO THROUGH THE PROCESS THEY REALIZE, WELL, HE DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THE SCOPE OF WORK.
YOU GET THAT MONEY BACK AT THE END.
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TO KEEP IT AS PART OF, OH, WE FOUND THE MONEY KIND OF A THING.SO WHAT MAKES IT A GOOD CHOICE FOR THE JUSTICE CENTER? UM, SO IT'S DEFINITELY THE COLLABORATION AND THE TEAM APPROACH.
UM, THIS IS A COMPLEX PROJECT WITH A LOT OF DIFFERENT USERS AND A LOT OF DIFFERENT FACTORS.
SO WE'RE DESIGNING THIS WHERE WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT FUTURE PHASES ARE ABLE TO BE ADDED SEAMLESSLY, WHERE YOU'RE NOT HAVING TO DIG UP A UTILITY JUST TO GO ADD ON ANOTHER BUILDING OR WHAT THAT MIGHT BE.
UM, SO THIS WOULD GIVE US THE OPPORTUNITY TO, UM, GO OUT AND PROCURE SOME OF THE LONG LEAD ITEMS EARLY.
I'LL GO OVER A LITTLE BIT MORE OF THAT IN A MINUTE.
UM, THEY CAN PROVIDE CONSTRUCTABILITY REVIEWS, UM, GOING THROUGH THE DESIGNS AND SEEING, HEY, WE COULD ACTUALLY DO THIS MORE EFFICIENTLY IF YOU CHANGE THIS DESIGN A LITTLE BIT.
UM, COURSE CONCEPT, UH, ENHANCED SCHEDULE PERFORMANCE, THEY'RE ABLE TO DO THAT AHEAD SO THEY CAN HIT THE
AND THEN GREATER CONTRACTOR INTEREST.
AND I WANTED TO POINT THIS OUT 'CAUSE THIS ISN'T ALWAYS THE CASE, BUT IN A MARKET LIKE RIGHT NOW WHERE WE HAVE A SHORTAGE OF, UM, CONTRACTORS, IT'S WE'RE IN A BUILDING BOOM.
UM, YOU'RE GONNA GET MORE INTEREST IN A-C-M-E-R.
AND THE REASON BEING THAT THEY CAN BOOK OUT THE GOOD ONES.
THE REALLY HIGH QUALITY CONTRACTORS ARE BOOKING OUT THEIR JOBS YEARS IN ADVANCE.
THEY WANT THAT KIND OF CERTAINTY.
UM, SO IF THEY'RE, IF THEY'RE GOING, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE FEWER PEOPLE GOING AFTER COMPETITIVE SALE PROPOSAL JOBS IN A MARKET LIKE THIS.
UM, AND THE ONES YOU'RE GOING TO BE GETTING A LOT OF TIMES ARE THE ONES THAT ARE FILLING HOLD.
MAYBE ANOTHER PROJECT WENT ON HOLD AND THEY HAD A A HOLD TO FILL.
SO, UM, IN THIS MARKET, WE'RE NOT SEEING AS MANY PEOPLE BIDDING IN THE CSP MARKET, BUT YOU'LL GET A LOT OF INTEREST IF YOU GO OUT FOR A-C-M-A-R.
SO SOME OF THE THINGS THAT MIGHT IMPACT, UM, ON THIS PROJECT SPECIFICALLY, WE KNOW HOWTO HAS SOME CRAZY EXTENSIVE CLAY SOILS.
AND THERE ARE A LOT OF DIFFERENT WAYS TO ADDRESS THIS WITH FOUNDATIONS.
AND SO, UM, THE C-M-R-C-M-A-R CAN BE VERY HELPFUL IN, UH, LOOKING AT THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF FOUNDATION SYSTEMS THAT CAN BE USED IN A PROJECT LIKE THIS, UH, TO GET YOU THE MOST COST EFFECTIVE AT THE TIME.
UM, SO THERE ARE A LOT OF DIFFERENT WAYS TO SKIN THE CAT, SO TO SAY, ON UM, FOUNDATIONS.
UM, BUT THEY CAN START THAT VERY EARLY, THAT PROCESS VERY EARLY.
ANOTHER IS, UH, RESEARCHING, UM, ACCESS TO THE SUBMARKET SO THAT WE CAN TALK ABOUT MATERIALS AND METHODS EARLY ON TO GET THE BEST BANG FOR YOUR BUCK.
SO THEY'LL BRING, SAY A MAYBE A GLAZING SPECIALIST.
AND THIS WAS AN EXAMPLE OF A PROJECT ONCE THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY SAID, HEY, IF YOU CHANGE YOUR MILLION TURN ON THIS PROJECT, YOU CAN SAVE 10% JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING TO THE MOST MAXIMIZED USE OF GLASS AND ALUMINUM FRAMING.
SO JUST LITTLE THINGS LIKE THAT CAN HAVE AN IMPACT.
UM, THE OTHER REALLY BIG, UM, BENEFIT IS THAT THEY'LL BE ABLE TO HELP WITH THE COST ESTIMATING OR THE BOND PROGRAM.
SO GIVING YOU SOME VERY REALISTIC, VERY SOLID NUMBERS FOR THE BOND SO THAT, UM, ONCE THAT BOND IS HOPEFULLY PASSED IN NOVEMBER, THAT YOU'RE GONNA STAY IN LINE WITH THOSE NUMBERS THROUGH CONSTRUCTION.
UH, ANOTHER ONE IS OFFSITE COORDINATION.
WE KNOW WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO BE EXTENDING SOME UTILITIES TO THE SITE, UM, AS WELL AS PROBABLY DOING A LITTLE BIT OF PUBLIC ROADWAY WORK.
SO THEY'LL BE ABLE TO HELP THAT.
UM, SOMETHING AS SIMPLE AS SAYING, OKAY, WELL WE KNOW WE WON'T BE ABLE TO GET THE ELECTRICAL EXTENDED UNTIL THIS DATE.
WELL, WE NEED POWER TO THE BUILDING BY THIS DATE.
MAYBE WE'RE GONNA NEED A TEMPORARY GENERATOR FOR A FEW MONTHS.
THEY'LL BE ABLE TO ACCOUNT FOR THAT IN THEIR, UM, IN THEIR, IN THEIR COST.
THAT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT MIGHT BE A SURPRISE LATER DURING CONSTRUCTION.
AND THEN EARLY BID PACKAGES OR, OR OR PHASE, UM, PHASE FITTING.
UM, THINGS LIKE, UH, GENERATORS, SWITCHGEAR ARE JUST KNOWN LONG LEAD ITEMS. THERE ARE A LOT OF SMALL PRODUCTS LIKE THIS.
THEY'LL BE ABLE TO IDENTIFY THEM EARLY AND ORDER THEM THE SECOND THE MONEY'S AVAILABLE SO THEY CAN BID THOSE EARLY RATHER THAN WAITING TILL THAT BID DATE.
SO, UM, SO WHY IS THIS IMPORTANT TO MAKE THE DECISION NOW? UM, WELL WE'RE HERE REALLY MID-APRIL, BUT UM, WE'RE GETTING CLOSE TO THE END OF APRIL HERE.
AND YOU CAN SEE THE GREEN LINE AT THE TOP IS OUR, UM, CONSTRUCT OR OUR DESIGN TIMEFRAME.
UM, AND SO YOU'LL SEE WE'RE KIND OF RUNNING, RUNNING UP AGAINST THE END OF DESIGN DEVELOPMENT MID-JUNE AND YOU CAN SEE THE CALL BOND DATE AND THE ELECTION DAY AS WELL.
SO, UM, WE NEED TO HAVE SOLID ESTIMATES AND NUMBERS FOR YOU FOR THAT, THAT CALLING OF THAT ELECTION.
UM, REALLY PREFERABLY MID MID JULY, END JULY.
AND SO, UM, IF WE LOOK AT A TIMEFRAME TO ADVERTISE FOR THE CMR, UM, AND THEN GOING THROUGH THE SELECTION PROCESS.
AND THAT SELECTION PROCESS CAN BE ONE STEP OR TWO STEP.
YOU CAN SELECT RIGHT OFF OF, UM, THEIR PROPOSALS TO YOU OR YOU CAN CHOOSE TO INTERVIEW ONES THAT
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YOU WANT.MAYBE YOU CAN NARROW DOWN THE LIST AND PICK A FEW YOU WANNA INTERVIEW.
THAT WOULD BE THE TWO STEP PROCESS.
AND THEN APPROVE THEM, THEN THEY CAN DIVE RIGHT IN AND, UM, AND START WITH THE ESTIMATES AND THE PRE-CONSTRUCTION SERVICES.
SO, UH, WHAT'S BELOW THAT IS JUST A LITTLE BIT MORE ON SOME OF THE DIFFERENT THINGS THAT NEED TO HAPPEN ON THIS, UH, PROJECT AS WE MOVE FORWARD THAT WE WOULD LOVE TO GET THEIR HELP ON.
UM, THINGS LIKE, I MEAN, COURSE THE SURVEY, WE DO NEED TO DO A SURVEY OF THE SITE.
UM, A GEOTECH SURVEY, THEY CAN DO A LOT OF COORDINATION THERE.
THAT'S WHERE THAT SOILS INFORMATION COMES IN HANDY.
UM, REZONING, THEY CAN, THEY CAN WEIGH IN ON ALL THESE, THESE PROCESSES.
UM, AND THEN ALSO THE SUBMITTING FOR THE EARLY SITE DEVELOPMENT PERMIT.
UM, WE LIKE TO GET THOSE IN EARLY IN CASE THERE'S ANY DELAYS OR ANY CHANGES.
BUT, UM, THIS IS ALLOWING THEM TO PUT OUT EARLY GIFT PACKAGES RIGHT AWAY ONCE THEY KNOW THAT BOND, UH, FUNDING IS AVAILABLE.
SO DAVID, WE, WE DO A SITE DEVELOPMENT PERMIT FOR OUR OWN, UH, FACILITIES WOULD DO, RIGHT? YEAH.
AND WE ACTUALLY DO OWN BUILDING AND WE DONE A BUILDING PERMIT.
THERE, THERE WAS A TIME THAT I WANTED TO HAVE ATTACH A SATELLITE TO THIS BUILDING AND, AND WAS DENIED 'CAUSE IT WASN'T WITH THAT BUILDING CODE, I WANTED TO ATTACH A SATELLITE TO THIS BUILDING ONE TIME AND IT WAS DENIED BECAUSE IT'S UH, NOT WITH THAT BUILDING CODE.
SO IT JUST REQUEST TO SEE THAT ON THERE.
I WAS LIKE, THAT'S GOOD THAT WE'RE RULES FOR THAT.
WE'RE ALL IN THE SAME SAME YEAH, WE HAVE TO, I ASSUME IF YOU SAY NO, GREAT
THAT'S HOW WE, THAT'S HOW WE FIND OUT HOW GOOD THE PLANS WORK.
BECAUSE IF THEY'RE GOOD ARCHITECTURAL DRAWINGS, IT'D BE AN EASY PERMITTING PROCESS.
IF THEY'RE
I I'M NOT A BIG CONTRACTOR LIKE SOME OF THE PEOPLE IN THE ROOM.
SO AS, AND THIS MAY BE MORE FOR, FOR, FOR DAVID AND STAFF.
HAS, HAS HU USED ANY CMRS IN ON PROJECTS IN THE PAST? I BELIEVE WE HAVE ON THE WASTEWATER TREATMENT SIDE, WASTEWATER TREATMENT AND RIGHT NOW, YES.
THE ORIGINAL OR THE, THE MAIN ADDITION, THE ONE THEY'RE DOING RIGHT NOW.
SO, SO MY NEXT QUESTION WAS HOW WAS THE EXPERIENCE? SO I KNOW ABOUT THE FRS, BUT HOW ABOUT THE WASTEWATER? IS THAT, I MEAN, IS THERE, I'M NOT TRYING TO PUT ANYONE ON OFFICIAL STATEMENT OF THE CITY OF HU AS A GRAY, BUT IS THIS SOMETHING THAT SAYS WE SHOULD DO IT OR SHOULDN'T DO IT? OR HEY, THAT'S, CAN THEY CHANGE ORDERS? HAVE WE HAD SO FAR, UM, FRITZ OR WASTEWATER? I'M EXCLUDING FRITZ WASTE OIL.
I GUESS MY, MY WHOLE YOU WANNA KNOW LIKE, IS IT ON SCHEDULE? ARE THEY HAVING CHANGED ORDERS? ARE WE SEEING NOW THE REASON FOR MY QUESTION IS, IS I DON'T, I'M NOT A CONTRACT PERSON.
UM, SO IS THERE ANYTHING IN OUR PAST THAT SAYS THIS IS NOT A GOOD IDEA ID, BECAUSE THAT'S THE GENERAL THING.
THAT'S ALL THE QUESTIONS I HAD.
DO YOU HAVE A PRESENTATION ON WHY A COMPETITIVE SEAL WOULD BE A GOOD PLAN? IT IT IS IN CERTAIN MARKETS FOR SURE.
UM, WHEN IT'S, WHEN WE'RE IN A RECESSION TIMES LIKE THAT, I BID A CSP JOB IN 2010 WHEN IT, WHEN THE MARKET REALLY TANKED.
AND I THINK WE HAD 18 CONTRACTORS BID ON IT CAME WAY UNDER BUDGET.
BUT THAT WAS A UNIQUE SITUATION WHERE THE, THE, YOU KNOW, THAT WAS THE HOUSING CRISIS BUYER'S MARKET, BUYER'SS MARKET.
UM, AND THAT WAS AN ADVANTAGE THEN.
BUT TYPICALLY I HAVEN'T SEEN THAT KIND OF MARKET SINCE EVEN DURING COVID.
INTERESTING YOU SAID THAT BECAUSE THAT'S THE ONLY THING I PICKED UP ON THIS WAS I WAS WAITING, WE, WE HAD A PID VERSUS MUD DEBATE ONE TIME.
AND A CONSULTANT CAME IN AND TOLD US ALL THE GREAT THINGS ABOUT A MUD.
AND I WAS LIKE, WELL, WHERE, WHERE'S THE PART ABOUT THE GOOD THINGS ABOUT THE PIT? IT'S GOTTA BE SOMETHING GOOD AND LIKE, OH YEAH, IT'S KIND OF THE SAME.
AND THAT'S WHAT I THINK IS LIKE IN A PRESENTATIONAL BIT IS HERE'S THE GOOD THINGS ABOUT THE CMAR.
BUT THEN WE DIDN'T HAVE A PRESENTATION ON THE GOOD THINGS ON THE OTHER ONE.
ALL WE KNOW IS THESE ARE GOOD, THIS IS THE BAD STUFF.
OKAY, WHAT DO YOU GUYS WANNA DO? AND SO, UH, MY ONLY ISSUE WITH CMAR IS THAT WE ARE TOO NEW.
I KNOW THAT FRITZ PARK WAS NOT COMING IN UNDER BUDGET.
OR PROBABLY TOO EARLY ON THE, UH, WASTEWATER TO KNOW.
BUT YOU KNOW, I, I DON'T HAVE EXPERIENCE OF SEEING C MARS WHERE PEOPLE ARE LIKE, OH MY GOSH, YOU SAY 20%.
TO ME, IF I WAS A CONTRACTOR AND I WAS HELPING YOU DESIGN THIS DIVIDED I'M, I'M GONNA MAKE DAMN SURE I DON'T LOSE MONEY ON THIS, SO I'M GONNA GO HIGH.
AND THEN TO ME, THE BEST WORLD WOULD BE CONSTRUCTION PERSON IS WORKING WITH THE ARCHITECT THROUGHOUT
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THE WHOLE PROCESS.AND THEN WHEN THEY GO, OKAY, NOW THAT WE'VE DONE THIS, THEY'RE GONNA DIFFER $50 MILLION.
THEN WE HAVE SOME OTHER PEOPLE COME IN, LOOK AT THE PLANS AND GO, OH, I COULD BID THAT FOR 45 OR I COULD BID THAT FOR 40.
BUT BY THEN IT'S SORT OF GONE.
SO NOW WE'RE RELYING ON WHAT THEY SAID.
AND I DON'T BELIEVE IN OPEN BOOK BECAUSE NOT THAT I'M A BOX OR ANYTHING, BUT LOTS PEOPLE HAVE TWO DIFFERENT SETS OF BOOKS.
AND SO I'VE HEARD STORIES FROM UH, PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THE BUSINESS WHO ARE LIKE, WELL, GOTTA FUDGE OVER HERE.
AND THEN YOU KNOW, WHO'S GONNA, IF WE, I THINK CHARLES WAS SAYING THERE'S THREE, WHAT WAS THAT ABOUT THE ROADS? THERE'S THREE DIFFERENT, UH, TRAFFIC CONTROL MEASURES.
LIKE ROADS, ONE'S LIKE ONE PRICE, ONE'S THE SAME PRICE AND ONE'S THREE TIMES THE OTHER ONE.
AND THE QUESTION WAS, WHY IS THAT ONE THREE TIMES? I DON'T KNOW.
WELL, WE'RE NOT CATCHING THAT, SO, BUT I I DO AGREE IT WOULD BE MORE, UM, IT WOULD HAPPEN FASTER BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S LITERALLY ALL ON THE, THE CONTRACTOR, IF IT'S NOT, THEY'RE GONNA BLAME US OR BLAME YOU FOR SHODDY PLANS FOR US FOR NOT MAKING DECISIONS WITH THE CMAR.
THEY SHOULD BE IN WITH YOU THE WHOLE TIME TO WHERE THERE SHOULD BE NO SURPRISES AND EVERYTHING.
SO FOR A POLICE STATION, MAYBE IT MAKES SENSE TO POTENTIALLY HAVE A HIGHER COST PROJECT TO WHERE AT LEAST IT GETS DONE.
THERE IS A HYBRID APPROACH WHERE YOU DIDN'T SEE THAT SLIDE
THEY WILL CERTAINLY HAVE A LEG UP ON BIDDING BECAUSE THEY'RE SO FAMILIAR WITH IT.
BUT YOU, YOU DO ALL THAT TO GET YOUR PROCESSING FOR THE BOND PRETTY TIGHT.
THAT THE BENEFIT OF DOING IT THAT WAY IS YOU GET, WHAT YOU'RE SUGGESTING IS THAT YOU GET SOME COMPETITIVE BIDDING AT THE END.
THE DOWNSIDE IS, IS THAT YOU STILL DON'T KNOW FOR SURE HOW MUCH MONEY YOU NEEDED TO GO TO BOND FOR AND YOU'VE ALREADY HAD TO MAKE THAT DECISION.
SO WHERE THE CMAR IS BETTER IN THAT REGARD IS YOU'LL HAVE A FIXED PRICE AND THAT FIXED PRICE IS WHAT YOU GO TO BOND FOR AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT IT BEING SOMETHING ELSE.
SO YOU CAN, YOU CAN DO A HYBRID APPROACH, BUT THEN YOU LOSE SOME CERTAINTY ON WHAT THE COST OF THE PROJECT IS GOING TO BE WHENEVER THE BIDS COME.
WE DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT A DIFFERENCE IN PRICE UNLESS WE CHANGE SOMETHING.
BUT IF YOU DO WHAT I'M DESCRIBING AS THE HYBRID, IT'S STILL THE CONTRACTOR'S ESTIMATE, THEN YOU'RE GONNA GO OUT TO BID AND BID AND, AND BIDS COULD COME IN SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAN WHAT YOU ESTIMATED.
BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T HAVE IT LOCKED IN BEFORE THE TIME THAT YOU HAD TO CALL THE BARN.
SO, SO YOU CAN'T ALL COME UP WITH CMR WITH CERTAIN COMPANIES.
DONE THE WORK, DONE WORK BEFORE THAT, YOU KNOW, GOOD TRACKER BECAUSE YOU HAD ON YOUR TRUST AND COLLABORATION.
I DON'T, I DON'T HAVE A WHOLE LOT OF TRUST IN OTHER PEOPLE.
AND SO WHEN YOU HAVE TRUST IN A CONTRACTOR, THEN IT'S LIKE, IT'S EASIER.
THERE SOME CONTRACT WE'VE NEVER HEARD OF.
LIKE WE WERE TALKING TO THE PREVIOUS ARCHITECT HAD NO TRUST THERE WHATSOEVER AND SOMEHOW YOU ALL ARE ABLE TO DO THE WORK FOR LIKE HALF OF WHAT THEY COULD.
WHAT IF THEY WERE PICKED TO BE THE CMR PERSON? THIS THING COULD HAVE BEEN AN $80 MILLION PROJECT AND THEN YOU MAY COME OUT AND MAKE IT AT 40.
AND SO I'M LIKE, WE DODGED A BULLET THERE AND THAT'S WHERE, UM, I DON'T WANNA TAKE RISK FOR THINGS GOING UP, BUT I DO IN THE BACK OF MY MIND WONDER, UM, ARE WE GONNA HAVE ANOTHER SITUATION WHERE IT'S LIKE, MAN, WHAT HAPPENED? BUT WELL, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, ON THE, IF YOU GO SEAMAR, WE CAN BE SELECTED ON WHO WE CHOOSE TO PARTNER WITH MORE.
YOU'RE NOT REALLY DOING LOW BID ON THAT TYPE OF A DEAL.
IT'S MORE OF A WHO DO WE WANT TO WORK WITH? WHO DO WE WANT TO NEGOTIATE WORKING WITH? THAT SORT OF THING.
YOU STILL HAVE TO DO A CALL ON ALL THOSE OTHER SORTS OF THINGS, BUT IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT THE SAME SCORING MECHANISM THAT COMPETITIVE BILL PROPOSAL WILL BE.
SO IF YOU GET THE, IF YOU GET THE ELECT NOR, UH, ELECTRICAL FOLKS COMING TO COME BUILD THE POLICE STATION RIGHT.
AND THEY'RE HALF THE COST OF EVERYBODY ELSE, WE KNOW WHY.
YOU'RE JUST LIKE, NAH, WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT GONNA USE YOU.
YOU KNOW, THERE'S, THERE'S THREE OR FOUR LIKE REALLY GOOD QUALITY CONTRACTORS WHO BUILD THESE TYPES OF FACILITIES THAT I THINK WOULD BE VERY INTERESTED IN, IN PUTTING IN A PROPOSAL TO DO SEE MORE WITH US.
SO I DON'T THINK WE'LL END UP WITH SOME NO NAME, YOU KNOW, HAVING TO CHOOSE A NO NAME BECAUSE WE DIDN'T GET ANY GOOD INTEREST.
ARE THERE A LOT OF PEOPLE INTERESTED? I I'M GETTING A LOT OF CONTRACTORS.
[00:25:01]
YEAH, I WAS WONDERING ABOUT THAT.WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THAT PROJECT? THEY'RE, THEY'RE ALL QUESTIONING IT.
SO, SO I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU MM-HMM
UH, HOPEFULLY YOU CAN SET ME STRAIGHT REGARDING CSP AND SEYMOUR WOULDN'T, UM, ONCE IT, IT DOES GO OUT TO BID, USUALLY THE, UH, GENERAL CONTRACTORS THAT, THAT ARE LOOKING AT THE JOB AND MIGHT BE INTERESTED IN BIDDING THAT JOB, THEY WOULD ALSO HAVE THE PLANS AND SPECS ABSOLUTELY.
AND PROVIDE THOSE TO SUBCONTRACTORS SO EVERYBODY'S LOOKING AT THE SAME THING.
UM, AND THEN WHEN THOSE BIDS COME IN, I'M LOOKING AT CSP RIGHT THERE AND IT SAYS LOW BID PLUS QUALIFICATION.
I, I DON'T NECESSARILY, I'M NOT NECESSARILY ON BOARD WITH THAT.
IT SHOULD BE LOWEST RESPONSIBLE BIDDER, NOT LOW BIDDER.
SO THE QUALIFICATIONS FOR SURE.
SO EXPLAIN TO, TO ME, THE WAY I'M HEARING EVERYTHING IS IT'S RUNNING PARALLEL.
SO EXPLAIN TO ME THE DIFFERENCE FROM YOUR EXPERIENCE.
UM, SO IN, IN MY EXPERIENCE, THE COMPETITIVE SEAL PROPOSALS, THOSE GCS, THE GENERAL, GENERAL CONTRACTOR, UM, A LOT OF THEM WILL BID CSP JOBS SOMETIMES AND THEY'LL ALSO GO AFTER GM OR GO AFTER CMR PROJECTS.
UM, WHEN THEY'RE GOING AFTER THE CSP JOBS, THEY KNOW THEY'RE UP AGAINST THE OTHER GCS.
BUT THEY ARE ALSO BRINGING IN, THEY'RE, IT'S A SIMILAR SUB POOL.
SO IF I GET FIVE OR SIX DIFFERENT GCS FITTING IT, THEY MIGHT ALL HAVE THE SAME ELECTRICAL ENGINEER AS LOW OR THE SAME, SORRY, ELECTRICAL SUB AS LOW OR THE SAME HVAC SUB AS LOW.
UM, AND THEN WHEN YOU GET THEIR QUALIFICATIONS BACK, YOU ARE GRADING THEM ON SORT OF A PRE, UH, APPROVED.
YOU'LL SAY, OKAY, YOUR, YOUR BID OR YOUR, THE, THE DOLLAR VALUE IS WORTH, I DON'T KNOW, SAY 20% OF YOUR OVERALL SCORE.
AND THEN MAYBE YOUR REFERENCES ARE WORTH A CERTAIN OTHER AMOUNT.
AND SO YOU GO THROUGH A WHOLE SELECTION PROCESS THERE.
UM, AND, AND YOU CAN STILL, I MEAN I'VE HAD CSP PROCESSES WHERE THE OWNER HAS BEEN IN THE ROOM AND SAID, YEAH, WE ARE NOT USING THAT SUB ON THIS JOB.
AND THEY, THEY SAID, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN RAISE YOUR CSP PRICE A LITTLE BIT.
UM, AND THEY'VE BEEN IN THE ROOM AND HAD THAT KIND OF NEGOTIATION MM-HMM
UM, WHO DO WE NEED? WHO, WHO DO WE NEED? I DON'T THINK WE'RE SKILLED ON OUR SIDE TO HAVE THOSE TYPE OF CONVERSATIONS ON, ON WHO YOU WANT AND DON'T WANT AS THE SUBS OR THE NO THINK WE MIGHT BE.
OH, YOU TALKING ABOUT ON THE STAFF? STAFF? LIKE STAFF.
LIKE THE REASON I SAYS HOW MANY POLICE STATIONS DO PEOPLE HAVE EXPERIENCE BUILDING OR BIG MUNICIPAL BUILDINGS? AND SO IF WE'RE LOOKING AT IT LIKE BE SURPRISED.
I MEAN, IS THERE SOMEONE, IS THERE A GROUP? AND I GET NERVOUS ABOUT HIRING ENGINEERS WHO ONE DAY ARE HELPING US AND THE NEXT DAY THEY'RE ENGINEERING A PROJECT FOR US.
AND THE THIRD TIME THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE EVERYBODY KIND OF PLAYS IN THE SAME SAME FIELD.
IS THERE A POSITION OR A, A DEAL OUT THERE WHERE THAT'S ALL PEOPLE DO IS WE SCRUTINIZE THESE THINGS AND WE YEAH.
SO SORT OF A PROJECT MANAGER THAT WOULD BE YOUR PROJECT MANAGER FOR EXAMPLE.
LIKE YOU THINK WE NEED A PROJECT MANAGER JAMES FOR SOMETHING LIKE THIS? OR WE, WE WOULD PROJECT MANAGERS.
WE WOULD OWNERS REP THIS MOST I'M SAYING INTERNALLY OR WOULD WE HIRE A THIRD PARTY? WE WOULD HIRE A ADOPT.
SO NOT ME, ME WHEN I SAY I DON'T KNOW THAT WE HAVE THE, NO.
I MEAN I, I'VE BUILT THREE MUNICIPAL BUILDINGS IN MY CAREER, BUT IT IT'S BIG, IT'S COMPLEX, IT'S COMPLICATED.
THERE'S LOTS OF MOVING PARKS AND I'M NOT IN CONSTRUCTION EVERY SINGLE DAY.
SO WHILE I MAY HAVE EXPERIENCE HAVING GONE THROUGH IT, YOU, WHEN YOU DO THESE CRITICAL PROJECTS LIKE THIS, YOU GENERALLY WANT TO SPEND THE MONEY TO HIRE AN OWNER'S REP THAT'S GOING TO BE HAWKING EVERYTHING.
SO THEY HAVE AN OWNER'S REP THAT DOESN'T END UP WORKING FOR A COMPANY THAT IS, ENDS UP BEING AN ENGINEER LATER ON.
THERE ARE SEVERAL COMPANIES THAT ONLY OWNER'S REP, THEY DON'T DO ANYTHING.
THAT'S WHAT, THAT'S ALL THEY DO.
THERE'S SOME THAT WILL HAVE LIKE THEIR, THEY HAVE THEIR OWNER REP SIDE AND THE CONTRACTOR SIDE, BUT THERE'S OTHERS THAT JUST OWNER'S REP.
LET ME GO BACK TO, TO MY QUESTION.
UM, BASED ON WHAT YOU DESCRIBED UNDER CSP, COULDN'T CMR DO THE SAME THING? SO CMR IS, YOU DO THAT PROCESS AHEAD OF TIME ON QU ON DECIDING WHO HAS THE BEST QUALIFICATIONS.
YOU'RE DOING THAT EARLY ON IN DESIGN.
YOU STILL DO, YOU CAN STILL VET OUT THOSE SUBCONTRACTORS LATER ON ONCE THEY FIT IT.
UM, WHAT THEY'LL TYPICALLY HAVE IS SORT OF THE INSIDE KNOWLEDGE OF, OH YEAH, I AM GONNA NEED
[00:30:01]
SOME EXTRA MONEY.WE DON'T HAVE TEMPORARY POWER ON THAT SITE.
OR I KNOW THAT THEY'RE GONNA HAVE A FESTIVAL OVER ON THIS SITE, SO I CAN'T HAVE, I CAN'T BE WORKING HERE FOR THESE DAYS.
THEY'RE, THEY'RE ABLE TO WORK IN A LOT MORE NUANCE.
BUT SHOULDN'T THOSE THINGS BE ACCOUNTED FOR UPFRONT BEFORE CHOOSING A CMR? SEE THAT, THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE I'M GETTING HUNG UP.
THAT'S WHERE THE ISSUE, WE HAVE FRITZ PARK, RIGHT? WE PICKED, WE, WE HAD A PROJECT, WE PICKED A CMR, IT WASN'T FULLY BAKED PLAY IT, WE, WE STARTED MOVING STUFF AROUND AND MAYBE WE WERE GONNA HAVE IT OVER HERE.
AND IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE KINDA TALKING ABOUT? MM-HMM
SO TO ME, WHEN I FIRST UNDERSTOOD THE CMAR, IT'S LIKE IT'S DONE.
SOMEHOW WE GOT THROUGH THE CMAR PROCESS WHERE CON THE CONTRACT IN THE CITY ARE STILL GOING BACK AND FORTH AND WHERE WE'RE GONNA PUT SOME, SOME OF OUR FACILITIES AT AND IT ENDED UP DELAY THE PROJECT POTENTIALLY COST MORE MONEY.
AND I'M LIKE, THAT'S NOT WHAT I THOUGHT THIS WAS GONNA DO.
SO THAT IS BECAUSE THE ITEMS THAT, THAT, THAT HAPPENED TO, THEY WERE PUT INTO THE SEYMOUR CONTRACT AS AN ALLOWANCE BEING 250 GRAND FOR THE SKATE PARK.
IT WAS AN ALLOWANCE BECAUSE BURETT HADN'T YET COMPLETED THE DESIGN OF THE SKATE PARK AND DETERMINED ITS SPECIFIC LOCATION AT THE TIME OF SIGNING THE FINAL PRICE.
SO AS YOU GO THROUGH A PROCESS, SO THAT DID NOT HAPPEN ON THIS, ON THE WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLAN, WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANT, ARCHER WESTERN WAS BROUGHT IN EARLIER AND WAS THERE AS GARVER WAS DOING THE DESIGN AND EFFECTIVELY DID THEIR OWNER'S REPRESENTATION.
PART OF TRYING TO GET THE PRICING DOWN.
BUT ONCE THE, ONCE THE, ONCE THE DESIGN WAS COMPLETE AND EVERYTHING WAS KNOWN, THAT'S WHEN WE GOT THE FINAL PRICE.
WE SIGNED FINAL PRICE AND ARCHER WESTERN'S BEEN GOING, YOU KNOW, GOING AT IT.
THE ONLY CHANGE ORDERS WE'VE HAD OUT OUT THERE ARE LIKE LITERALLY WHENEVER THINGS ARE NOT GOING TO WORK THE WAY THAT THEY THOUGHT BECAUSE I, YOU CAN'T GET THAT PARTICULAR VENDOR.
SO NOW WE GOTTA SWITCH TO ANOTHER VENDOR AND IT'S A DIFFERENT PRICE OR WHATEVER ELSE.
UM, SO YES, GENERALLY SPEAKING AND, AND THIS ONE MAY BE BORDERLINE LIKE CLOSER TO FRITZ PARK BECAUSE PBK IS ALREADY, YOU KNOW, KIND OF OUT THE GATE WITH DESIGN AND THEY DON'T HAVE THE CONTRACTOR IN PARTNERSHIP WITH THEM RIGHT NOW.
SO YOU MIGHT END UP WITH MORE OF A DESIGN GETTING DONE AHEAD OF TIME BEFORE THE CONTRACTOR GETS IN AND STARTS, STARTS GETTING INVOLVED.
BUT I DON'T THINK THE POLICE STATION WOULD END UP WITH, HEY, THIS IS JUST A, UH, AN ALLOWANCE FOR BUILDING A, YOU KNOW, THE COURT OR WHATEVER.
I I DON'T THINK THAT THAT'S, THAT'S A POSSIBILITY.
I GUESS THAT ISSUES AND FRITZ, WE, WE WOULDN'T IN A CONSTRUCTION WITHOUT THE PLAN DISPLAY DONE HERE, WE DON'T HAVE TO DO THAT.
'CAUSE I WOULD IMAGINE YOU CAN'T RICH, YOU CAN SAY, HEY, WE'LL ADD ON THAT ACCESSORY WHATEVER LATER.
BUT HERE IF YOU'RE BUILDING A BUILDING THAT'S RIGHT.
THAT YOU'RE NOT GONNA HAVE THAT SAME TOP SCENARIO THOUGH.
WELL, THERE'S SOME SORT OF RUSH.
'CAUSE WE, WE TRIED DOING DIRT WORK LIKE FOUR MONTHS EARLIER ON SOMETHING SO IT COULD SIT WHILE WE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THERE WAS SOMETHING THERE.
WE, SO, SO THE, THE CMAR WILL, UH, IT WILL BE, HOW CAN I WORD THIS? IT IT, IT'LL BE, UH, THEY WILL BE PRESENTING A, A COST OR A BID BASED ON 100% PLANS AND SPECS.
IT'S BEST IF THEY'RE A HUNDRED PERCENT.
UH, YEAH, BECAUSE IF THEY'RE LIKE 50 OR 80 OR WHATEVER, RIGHT.
'CAUSE YOU MIGHT GET A CSP THAT'S BASED ON LIKE A 90% CD THEN, YOU KNOW, IN THIS CASE IT WOULD THEORETICALLY ALREADY BE A HUNDRED.
I'VE DONE 'EM BOTH WAYS AND IT IS BEST IF THEY'RE A HUNDRED PERCENT.
I GET A HUNDRED PERCENT HASN'T BEEN WORKING OUT FOR US, I DON'T THINK.
IT TALKS ABOUT ADVANTAGES OF CSP.
IT WORKS WELL WITH SCOPE IS WELL DEFINED.
SO I'M NOT TRYING TO CRITIQUE ON THE DESIGN.
I'M NOT TRYING TO DO ANYTHING.
BUT, AND, AND, AND IF IT'S NOT WELL DEFINED, THAT COULD BE MORE ON THE CITY NOT PROVIDING THE CORRECT PARAMETERS.
BUT SO IF, IF IS THIS IF A-C-M-C-C-M-A-R, SORRY, CR UM, I GUESS THE QUESTION IS, IS IT, I'M TRYING TO GUESS WHAT I'M SAYING IS, IS THIS SCOPE, DO YOU THINK WELL-DEFINED ENOUGH WITHOUT, I'M NOT TRYING TO CRITIQUE ANYONE THAT BANG ANYONE ON NOT NOT ON THE SHOP.
I MEAN I THINK IT'S PRETTY WELL DEFINED THAT YOU'RE NOT, THIS ISN'T AN EXISTING FACILITY WE'RE ADDING AND RENOVATING TO OH.
IT IS DEFINITELY, UM, IT'S S GROUND UP THAT IS EASIER THAN, UM, A BIG ADDITION RENOVATION.
[00:35:01]
I THINK THE UNKNOWNS OR MAYBE THE LESS CLEAR CUT THINGS ARE THE SITE ITSELF.IT'S NOT A PIECE OF PLATTED LAND IN A DEVELOPMENT RIGHT.
WITH UTILITIES STUBBED OUT TO IT.
THERE'S STILL SOME SUB SITE DEVELOPMENT THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN IN THE ROAD.
OTHER THINGS THAT NEED TO COME TO IT.
UM, SO I THINK THAT, AND THEN THE TIMEFRAME TOO, IT IS KIND OF COMPRESSED.
SO, UM, BEING ABLE TO IDENTIFY THINGS THAT YOU CAN BID EARLY, UM, OR PROCURE EARLY WILL KEEP THAT TIMEFRAME GOING.
THAT IS EVER SINCE COVID AND HONESTLY AND WITH THE, UM, JUST RANDOM MATERIAL SHORTAGES AT RANDOM TIMES, THEY'RE ABLE TO KIND OF, WELL I'M ALL FOR GETTING THINGS DONE QUICKER AND EVERYTHING.
UM, AND, AND THE OTHER THING WAS BACK TO THE, THE SCHEDULE.
WELL YOU SAID SOMETHING ABOUT THAT YOU MIGHT NOT BE ABLE, IF YOU, IF THERE'S A DELAY IN GETTING THIS, THERE COULD BE A DELAY IF WE DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH CMAR, UH, BID TO BE OUR CMAR.
AND YOU SAID THAT YOU FELT GOOD THAT THERE WERE A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT THERE, BUT IF, IF THE, IF IF WE WEREN'T ABLE TO GET THE CMAR THAT DIDN'T WORK OUT, WHAT, WHAT KIND OF CRUNCH AND TIME? AGAIN, IT'S BACK TO TIMEFRAME GETTING THE BOND, RIGHT? SO IF WE, IF WE DIDN'T GO SEE A BOND, I THINK WE'D BE LOOKING AT BRINGING, UM, A COST ESTIMATOR FOR SURE.
UH, LOOK AT IT, YOU KNOW, THE MAKING SURE THE BOND DOLLARS ARE THERE.
UM, SO I MEAN IT, THERE'S CERTAINLY A PATHWAY FORWARD WITHOUT IT.
UM, WE, I MEAN WE CAN DO EITHER ONE, BUT THE CONTRACTORS, A LOT OF THEM OUT THERE ARE THE ONES THAT I THINK YOU'RE GONNA WANT TO HAVE ON A JOB LIKE THIS.
UM, WHEN I, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE TALK TO THEM, THEY'RE LIKE, YEAH, WE'RE NOT DOING CSP RIGHT NOW OR WHATEVER.
IT'S JUST BECAUSE THE MARKET'S SO GOOD THEY, THEY, THEY DON'T HAVE TO.
MY ONLY, I WOULDN'T DO THAT EITHER.
'CAUSE IF I'M HAVING TO BID TO MAKE THE PRICES GO CHEAPER, WHY WOULD I DO THAT? IF THE MARKET'S GREAT AND I CAN JUST SAY, LOOK, 50 MILLION ARE NOT COVERED.
IF I HAVE TO GO BID AND LIKE REALLY, YOU KNOW, GO HARD.
I MAY ONLY HAVE THE PROJECT FOR 45 MILLION AND THEN MAYBE I, MAYBE I LOST SOME MONEY ON THE TABLE.
I'D HAVE REMORSE A LITTLE BIT IF I GOT PICKED GOING SO I COULD SEE WHERE THE GENERAL INDUSTRY WOULD WANNA GO TO CMAR BECAUSE IT'S JUST, IT WOULD BE MORE PROFITABLE I WOULD THINK.
I THINK THE DIFFERENCE IS TYPICALLY THAT THAT GNP, IT MIGHT BE, IT MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT HIGHER THAN THAT CSP DOLLAR VALUE AT TIMES, BUT THEY WANNA COVER THEMSELVES TOO.
'CAUSE THEY DON'T WANNA HAVE TO COME TO YOU WITH A CHANGE ORDER HALFWAY THROUGH IT.
THEY WANT THE MONEY IN THERE TO, UM, OKAY, WELL WE DIDN'T, WE DIDN'T KNOW THIS WAS GONNA HAPPEN, BUT DON'T WORRY WE'VE GOT IT IN OUR CONTINGENCY OR WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE.
UM, AND THEN TYPICALLY THAT MONEY IS A CHECK BACK AT THE END.
SO RATHER THAN IT BEING, YOU KNOW, ZEROED OUT AT THE END OR MORE, YOU KNOW, CHANGE ORDERS, IT'S A CHANGE ORDER BACK TO YOU.
YEAH, THAT THAT'S A GOOD POINT.
UM, BECAUSE THE LAST THING THAT, THAT I WOULD WANT TO SEE HAPPEN IS, UH, IT BE AWARDED TO THE LOWEST BIDDER OR WHATEVER, EVEN THE LOWEST RESPONSIBLE BIDDER AND, AND FOR EITHER OR OKAY.
AND THEN, UH, YOU KNOW, JUST TO GET THE JOB, THEY LOAD ALL IT AND THEN WE'RE SCREWED.
I'VE SEEN IT HAPPEN TIME AND TIME AND TIME AGAIN.
SO HOW, HOW DO YOU GUARD AGAINST THAT? OR THEY DO IT GUARANTEED MATCHING? THEY, THEY, THAT'S WHY I WAS ASKING THE QUESTION.
IT'S NOT EVEN A CMR THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN THAT OFTEN.
IT DOESN'T HAPPEN BECAUSE THEY ALREADY HAVE A PRICE.
RIGHT NOW TO MY, THE WAY I'M HEARING EVERYTHING, THE CMR MIGHT COST MORE, BUT YOU'RE GETTING THE TIME THAT YOU WANT.
WHEREAS CS P WILL COST LESS, BUT YOU HAVE THE RISK OF GOING LONGER, UH, BECAUSE OF OF TIME RISK OF COST AND THE RISK OF COST.
AND SO MY QUESTION FOR THE CMR IS, YOU KNOW, IF YOU HAVE A BUDGET OF 50 MILLION, LET'S JUST SAY THEY WON'T JUST SAY, WELL OUR BEST, IT'S GONNA COST 50 MILLION RATHER THAN, WELL, YOU KNOW, WE CAN GET THE 45 OR 40 OR WHATEVER THE NUMBER'S GONNA BE.
SO KIND OF WHAT YOU WERE SAYING EARLIER, JUST INFLATE THE PRICE.
JUST, JUST TO COVER EVERYTHING AND, AND YOU KNOW, AND SO THAT'S WHAT CONCERNED ABOUT, ABOUT CMAR IS, IS UNDERSTANDING THAT THING.
AND THEN, BUT THE, BUT THE CSP THING, YOU HAD SAID SOMETHING EARLIER I THOUGHT MADE SENSE BECAUSE WE HAD JUST HAD AN ISSUE WITH, UM, THE ROAD AND THE GUY WAS SAYING THAT HE READ THE BID AND HE INTERPRETED ONE WAY.
SO I THINK THAT'S THE OTHER BIG ISSUE.
WE HAVE A CSP, RIGHT? THEY'RE GONNA COME IN A BIT LOW, BUT THEY'RE GONNA MAKE THEIR OWN INTERPRETATION OF WHAT THE DESIGN SAYS.
BUT THAT'S THE SAME THING FOR CMAR BECAUSE THEY'RE GONNA OH, WELL ACTUALLY, YEAH.
BUT, BUT, BUT WITH CMAR HE COULD DO THAT, BUT HE, HE GOT THE CONSEQUENCES I THINK.
I THINK IN THAT CASE THERE WASN'T A DEFINED SPEC.
AND, AND THAT SHOULDN'T HAPPEN CMAR BECAUSE OF SEA R THERE WE HAVE HAND IN HAND MARRIED TO THE ARCHITECTED PROCESS.
SO THERE SHOULD NOT BE ANY MISUNDERSTANDINGS OR YEAH.
BUT I'M ALSO AGREE WITH YOU ALSO IS, THIS IS A GREAT PRESENTATION ABOUT SMAR, BUT FOR
[00:40:01]
SOMEONE LIKE ME WHO'S BRAND SPANKING NEW, WOW, WE SHOULD GO SMAR.I HAVE NO IDEA THE BENEFITS OF OF A OF A CSP.
I SHOULD HAVE PUT IT MORE BALANCED.
UH, YOU HAD ONE MORE THING, JIM.
OH, I WAS JUST SAYING THAT THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF MY QUESTION WAS IS THAT WE HAVE CONTINGENCIES BECAUSE WE HAVE A TIMEFRAME THAT'S CRITICAL.
WE'VE GOTTA GET SOMETHING GOING.
I WANT US TO MAKE THE RIGHT DECISIONS.
BUT IF SOME, FOR SOME REASON, EVEN THOUGH IT MAY BE A 1% POSSIBILITY THAT AS A A STAFF, WE'RE LOOKING AT WHAT ARE THE CONTINGENCIES AND WITH OUR CONSULTANTS, WHAT ARE THOSE CONTINGENCIES? SO IF SOMEBODY'S STARTING TO LOOK TURN, YOU KNOW, WE'RE MAKING A RIGHT TURN, WE SHOULD BE GOING STRAIGHT THAT WE ARE START IMPLEMENTING OR LOOKING AT MORE OF THE CONTINGENCY AND WE HAVE A PLAN AND NOT SCURRYING THE LAST THAT'S, THAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF MY QUESTION.
ON ON WHETHER OR NOT ON WHICH, WHICH WAY WE GO.
WE'LL MAKE EITHER ONE WORK, BUT I THINK WE'RE, WE'RE KIND OF ASKING TO MAKE THE DECISION NOW JUST SO WE CAN, BUT IF WE CAN'T GET A CMAR THAT WE FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH, THEN END OF MAY, WE MAY GO, OOPS, WE DON'T WANT YOU SAID THAT, BUT I DON'T THINK THERE'S AS SHORTAGE AS A CMAR.
THERE'S NO SHORTAGE OF, I'M SAYING IF THERE'S A 1% CHANCE YEAH.
AND WE JUST HAVE CONTINGENCIES.
WE SAY THAT AND LIKE 15 OF THEM BID
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SMAR IS YOU SAID, UH, I THINK YOU SAID IT, UM, JAMES, IS THAT WE'RE KIND OF LATE BECAUSE THESE DESIGNS ALREADY STARTED.
SO MY QUESTION IS WHY ARE WAIT UNTIL NOW TO, TO, TO DECIDE CMAR CSB, WHY DIDN'T WE DO THAT EARLIER? I THINK TRYING TO JUST DEFINE THE PROJECT A BIT MORE.
I THINK AS WE SWITCHED, WE HAD A DESIGNER, AN ARCHITECT IN THE WAY, WE HAD AN ARCHITECT IN THE WAY THAT WE HAD TO CHANGE, SCOOT OUT, MAKE A CHANGE.
AND THEN I I I'M JUST GUESSING THEN YOU GUYS NEED A MONTH OR SO JUST TO GET YOUR HEAD RIGHT AROUND WHAT OF THOSE WE'RE TRYING TO DO HERE.
SO IDEALLY IF YOU, IF WE WENT TO SEE MAR, HOW SOON WOULD YOU NEED TO CMAR PICKED SO YOU CAN THIS GOES TALK REALLY WELL.
YEAH, I MEAN, I MEAN OBVIOUSLY MAYBE TODAY, BUT I THINK, UH, WE'VE, WE'VE GOT SOME EXAMPLE, UM, PROPOSALS THAT WE CAN LOOK AT TO SORT OF HELP CRAFT WHAT THAT MIGHT LOOK LIKE FOR Y'ALL.
UM, AND THEN I THINK YOU'D PROBABLY WANT TO PROVE THAT THEN PUT IT OUT FOR THE CRI DON'T KNOW YOUR WHOLE PROCUREMENT PROCESS ON THAT.
TRAFFIC SIGNALS ARE LIKE A NINE TO 15 MONTH, UM, AHEAD OF TIME.
SO WE PUT ONE IN, WE NEED TO GET TO, THAT'S OUR 0.01% PROBLEM THAT OCCURRED.
SO THE ADVERTISING WOULD BE KIND OF YOUR, YOUR, YOUR PROCESS OF OF PUTTING OUT THE RFP AND THEN, UH, REQUESTED PROPOSALS, GETTING THOSE BACK, UM, ASSESSING THEM AND THEN, UM, AND YOU KNOW, THAT'S GIVING THEM A MONTH.
IT COULD BE SHORTER THAN THAT.
UM, JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT YOU GIVE 'EM ENOUGH TIME THAT THEY'RE PUTTING TOGETHER SOME, A QUALITY DOCUMENT AS WELL.
UM, AS SOMEBODY WHO HAS TO PUT THOSE TOGETHER AS WELL.
THEY, THEY CAN BE, THERE'S A LOT TO PUT TOGETHER.
UM, YOU WANNA MAKE SURE YOU GIVE 'EM A LITTLE TIME ON THAT.
AND THEN, UM, THE ONE MONTH SELECTION, THAT'S REALLY JUST TO GIVE YOU THE TIME TO ASSESS THE DIFFERENT DOCUMENTS.
SO LIKE IF YOU WANTED TO HAVE INTERVIEWS THAT WOULD GIVE YOU TIME IN THAT TIMEFRAME.
I DON'T MIND DOING THE
EVERYBODY FEELS COMFORTABLE THAT I'M NOT HERE TO PICK ANYBODY BUT SOMEONE THAT WE CAN HAVE A REPUTATION THAT WE, WHERE THIS THING GETS DRAGGING OUT AND I DON'T KNOW, I FORBID SOMETHING HAPPENS, WE DON'T NEED SOME COMPANY ON A, I WON'T SAY THEY, THEY'RE LIKE OUT OF CALIFORNIA AND THEY WORK OVERTIME AND ALL THIS STUFF JUST LIKE
SO TO ME, I DON'T MIND IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE CAN GO DOWN AND LIKE PUT ON THE PHONE AND, AND THEY'RE, THEY'RE BIG ENOUGH THAT THEY, THEY ANSWER THE PHONE.
UH, ANOTHER THING THAT, YOU KNOW, CITY MANAGERS SAID, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GONNA HAVE A CONTRACT SERVICE REP IN HOUSE, WHICH LONG TERM WE WOULD HAVE INTERNALLY, BUT RIGHT NOW WE NEED TO GET THE PROJECTS GOING.
SO WE HAVE THAT THIRD PERSON THAT WILL BE YEAH.
CONTRACT TO, TO THAT IN HOUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
THAT'D BE A, RIGHT NOW IT'S A CONTRACT, BUT THE LONG TERM GOAL IS WE WOULD HAVE AN IN-HOUSE PERSON.
'CAUSE HAVING A CONTRACT PERSON THAT VERSUS IN HOUSE IS MORE EXPENSIVE.
BUT ANYWAY, BUT RIGHT NOW THE THING IS RIGHT NOW HAVING A CONTRACT SERVICE REP I THINK IS IS JUST ANOTHER LEVEL OF, OF CHECKS AND BALANCES.
WHAT IS THAT YOU'RE SAYING? I DON'T KNOW.
WE'RE HEARING THAT THE OWNER REP, SERVICE REP.
YOU KNOW WHEN YOU STARTED, WHEN WHEN YOU'RE DOING ENOUGH VOLUME THAT YOU'RE, THAT YOU HAVE ENOUGH FOR A WHOLE POSITION, THAT'S WHEN IT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE.
WELL IT'S ALSO DIFFICULT TO GET SOMEONE WITH LIKE REAL CONSTRUCTION, REAL TIME EXPERIENCE AND THEN PLUCK THEM OUT AND STICK THEM IN OVER HERE AND THEN THEM STAY RELEVANT ON STUFF.
[00:45:01]
AND WE CAN PAY YOU LESS, LESS FLEXIBILITY, BUT YOU GET A TWO TO ONE MATCH ON YOUR, UH, WE GET A TECH STOP PERSON, YOUR TEAM R STUFF AND YOU'RE COMPLETELY OUT OF TOUCH WITH WHAT IT COSTS TO BUILD.WE WANT 10 YEAR RETIRED TEXT ON ENGINEER.
ALRIGHT, SO WE NEED TO THEN WE NEED TO, WE NEED A MOTION THEN IT SOUNDS LIKE TO EITHER DO CMAR OR CSP AND HOWEVER IT GOES AND LEAST YOU GUYS GOT THE DIRECTION AND RIGHT AROUND AND WE'LL CERTAINLY LOOK, IT SOUNDS LIKE LOCATION OF THEIR LOCAL OFFICE MAY MEANS A LOT.
SO IT'S, WE HELP TO CRAFT THAT REQUEST.
OTHER PEOPLE MAY BE OKAY WITH, I MEAN, IS THERE A HOTBED OF POLICE STATION ACTIVITY BEING BUILT SOMEWHERE IN THE NATION? YOU HAVE PLENTY OF REALLY GOOD OPTIONS IN THIS AREA.
YEAH, WE HAVE COME RIGHT HERE TO UP.
AND, AND, AND AS FAR AS, AND WHEN THE REFERENCES, I, I ASSUME Y'ALL BE BETTING IT'S NOT JUST THE BUSINESSES OR WHATEVER, BUT ACTUAL WHAT HERE, HERE'S A FINISHED PROJECT THAT THEY'VE DONE.
AND YOU WANNA BE CALLING THOSE CLIENTS? CALLING THE, WELL EVEN AND EVEN EVEN PROJECTS THAT MIGHT BE FIVE YEARS OLD.
NOT JUST SOMETHING THAT'S SUPER RECENT, BUT IN THE LAST 10 YEARS IT WOULD BE NICE TO HAVE A PROJECT THAT GETS DONE ON TIME AND ON BUDGET AND IT'S HERE FOR 30 YEARS.
BUT, AND BABY, WE WANT OUR RETIREMENT HOME ON THE BACKSIDE.
OH, WHAT IT CALLED? THE, THE MINISTER HAS OH, THE DIRECTORY.
YOU GUYS WANNA DO ANYTHING OR WELL, SIX STAFF.
WHAT DO Y'ALL WHAT DO YOU WE WOULD PREFER, UH, DIRECTION FROM COUNCIL ON IF WE'RE GOING FOR CSV OR CMAR.
I MAKE A MOTION THAT WE DO CMAR MOTION BY CONSTABLE GORDON.
ALL IN FAVOR? RAISE YOUR HAND.
SORRY THAT I KEPT YOU MEETING.
THANK GOD YOU OKAY WITH FOUR AND WITH THAT, IF THERE'S NOTHING ELSE.